ricki Posted August 13, 2017 #126 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I think it is you who "doesn't get it"! So, using your analogy above, you have booked a cruise and entered into a contract. Part of that contract is the expectation that you will pay gratuities...that is what you have "agreed" by entering such contract. No ifs, no buts, and yes to the gratuity! Really simple, and I suspect you know you ought to pay up instead of being cheap.;) Agreed! I don't understand why anyone would NOT pay gratuities. If it is in response to perceived bad service, take the problem up with a supervisor or the Hotel Director so that or can be corrected. Even with all inclusive we reward excellent service with additional gratuities. Would you walk out of a restaurant, in a country where it is customary to tip, without tipping? What about a taxi driver? Hairdresser or barber? The crew works so hard!! Ricki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadOfToadHall Posted August 13, 2017 #127 Share Posted August 13, 2017 The crew works so hard!! Yep. Lashed to the mast and whipped to within an inch of their lives. Oh hang on a minute, oh yes, that's right, no they are not. This is 2017, not 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUT2407 Posted August 13, 2017 #128 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I think it is you who "doesn't get it"! So, using your analogy above, you have booked a cruise and entered into a contract. Part of that contract is the expectation that you will pay gratuities...that is what you have "agreed" by entering such contract. No ifs, no buts, and yes to the gratuity! Really simple, and I suspect you know you ought to pay up instead of being cheap.;) Well actually no. As long as the line lets people remove them, there is no contractual obligation to pay them. Now is there amoral obligation may be a totally different answer. But a contractual obligation, nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamrag Posted August 14, 2017 #129 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Well actually no. As long as the line lets people remove them, there is no contractual obligation to pay them. Now is there amoral obligation may be a totally different answer. But a contractual obligation, nope. Fair comment, that is why I did not actually state there is a contractual obligation, what I wrote was: Part of that contract is the expectation that you will pay gratuities...that is what you have "agreed" by entering such contract. The alternative, as I also wrote, is to be cheap.....!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare 3rdGenCunarder Posted August 14, 2017 #130 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The cruising industry aside from the all inclusive luxury end has based its model on pax paying a gratuity, this is not new, it has always been the case, why if everything meets expectations do people then want to go and reinvent the wheel? This thread makes just about as much sense as those passengers who come to Cunard and expect the dress code to change because it doesn't suit them. If you dont like it then find a holiday that suits. I agree! It is what it is. You may not like it, but it's how the system works. If you don't like it, write to Cunard or Carnival and complain. Or "vote with your feet." Fair comment, that is why I did not actually state there is a contractual obligation, what I wrote was:Part of that contract is the expectation that you will pay gratuities...that is what you have "agreed" by entering such contract. The alternative, as I also wrote, is to be cheap.....!! (bold is mine) I am NOT saying that anyone on this thread is trying to be cheap, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who take off the service charge and "tip the people who serve me" are not tipping as much as the full service charge. I'm pretty sure the couple we met at breakfast fall into that category. On our penultimate morning on QM2, at the end of breakfast a very pleasant first timer asked if he needed to queue up to settle his account. We and the other couple at the table assured him that if he'd registered a credit card, it was all taken care of. He did not ask about tipping, but the other couple started in on the service charge, hoping to "educate" a newbie. They trotted out all the excuses I've heard over the years. First was fraud. He had worked for the Navy. He didn't SERVE in the Navy, he "worked for them," so I have no idea where he got his info.But he said whenever there was a charitable contribution on board,the officers skimmed from it, and he didn't trust any pooled tips because of that. (I was offended on behalf of my retired Navy BIL, but said nothing rather than start an argument) He was quite certain that half of the service charge went to Cunard and the crew never got it. Then he went to say they only tip the people who actually serve them. They had picked up envelopes for their steward and their dining room waiters. When they doubled down on the excuses, I had to say something. Since I did not work for the navy, but am a veteran of lots of cruises, I went after Excuse #2. I asked them if they ate at the buffet? And what about breakfast? Were we at their usual table, were those their usual waiters? How were those crew members going to be tipped for the service they gave? The couple had no answer for that and left shortly afterward. The first-timer was quite put off by their diatribe, and we reassured him that nobody was stealing from the service charge. My point in this story is that if tipping is expected (and it's how the system works), the service charge is easy, discrete, and fair. Does anyone else remember the days before the buffet? When you went to the dining room at your appointed time and sat at your table? Back then, the same servers took care of you all the time. Direct tipping was appropriate. And there was the trickle-down system of sharing tips, so everyone was taken care of. But now, with open seating in Britannia at breakfast and lunch, and the buffet, you aren't served by the same people every day. Surely nobody wants to walk around tipping everyone who hands them a plate of something, so the fairest way to do the tipping is in the form of a "service charge." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadOfToadHall Posted August 14, 2017 #131 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (bold is mine) I am NOT saying that anyone on this thread is trying to be cheap, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who take off the service charge and "tip the people who serve me" are not tipping as much as the full service charge. I suspect you are correct. The thing is, it's $11.50 a day, so it does not seem that much (1 G&T now !). But when you multiply that up by maybe 14 or more, and then double it (since the vast majority of accounts will be for a couple), the figure becomes large; often several hundred dollars. For example, my 16 day cruise last month or so, the service charge came to the thick end of $400. Having just been bent over and shafted on my bar bill, it was very tempting to remove it. I didn't, but it was tempting. He had worked for the Navy. He didn't SERVE in the Navy, he "worked for them," so I have no idea where he got his info. That's perfectly possible. A chap I know worked for the Army, but he wasn't enlisted in the Army. Surely nobody wants to walk around tipping everyone who hands them a plate of something, so the fairest way to do the tipping is in the form of a "service charge." The fairest way is for the cruise lines to pay their staff properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare 3rdGenCunarder Posted August 14, 2017 #132 Share Posted August 14, 2017 That's perfectly possible. A chap I know worked for the Army, but he wasn't enlisted in the Army. I know that there are a lot of civilian employees. I wasn't doubting that, I was doubting his story about the officers stealing from charitable collections. The fairest way is for the cruise lines to pay their staff properly. Yes, you're right. That would be the ideal situation, but that isn't the way it is. And then your fare would be more, so you'd pay it one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balf Posted August 14, 2017 #133 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I don't see how you can claim that the system is fair when you pay it and others don't. I would call that grossly unfair. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillylovesseabourn Posted August 14, 2017 #134 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The fairest way would be for everyone who is against tipping to find a line that they don't have to tip on. End of. However, that would be far too simple and not provide them with anything to whinge about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavovsky Posted August 14, 2017 #135 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just include in the fare. Simples. No one can stiff or be called cheap. Service is included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliana Posted August 14, 2017 #136 Share Posted August 14, 2017 We will shortly be sailing on Queen Elizabeth, our first cruise with Cunard. We have sailed a lot on Regent, Seabourn and Silversea, and find the concept of gratuities or service charges very bizarre. When will Cunard join the other upmarket lines and include gratuities in the initial cost? This would not preclude anyone from giving a special gratuity to a member of staff who provided a special service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillylovesseabourn Posted August 14, 2017 #137 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Cunard is a mass market line, and as with other mass market lines gratuities are always extra. The other lines you mention are categorised as luxury all inclusive lines, which per head are substantially more. As Cunard is neither classified as a luxury line or all inclusive, a gratuity will not be included as this would affect their headline pricing and put this out of kilter with it's competitors ie Celebrity etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliana Posted August 14, 2017 #138 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Cunard is a mass market line, and as with other mass market lines gratuities are always extra. The other lines you mention are categorised as luxury all inclusive lines, which per head are substantially more. As Cunard is neither classified as a luxury line or all inclusive, a gratuity will not be included as this would affect their headline pricing and put this out of kilter with it's competitors ie Celebrity etc. I take your point. Do gratuities and service charges on drinks etc. go to the staff or do Cunard get a cut? Presumably many passengers 'tip' there suite steward and those that wait on them regularly and some might deduct this from the Cunard suggested overall gratuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillylovesseabourn Posted August 14, 2017 #139 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I take your point. Do gratuities and service charges on drinks etc. go to the staff or do Cunard get a cut? Presumably many passengers 'tip' there suite steward and those that wait on them regularly and some might deduct this from the Cunard suggested overall gratuity. Some do remove auto tips altogether, but I think it is very poor practice. The mass market lines have always had a charged separate gratuity per person at the end of a cruise, and this is shared equally between all staff, customer facing and those Behind the scenes, so by removing auto tip you don't allow this practice. However, some people do give tips to individuals in addition to autotip if they have given exemplary service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted August 14, 2017 #140 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Wonder no more Keith, my wife and I being Brits always pay over and above what's suggested to our table and cabin steward, in envelopes, on another note we don't really mind what others may think on board if they see the envelopes on the last night, not so much a flourish but just a straight outward hand motion to hand them over, and a discreet folded note on the penultimate day to anyone else on board who went over and above what was generally expected. But then I guess we feel a bit old fashioned so maybe we haven't noticed that tip etiquette may have changed. Thank you! It's nice to see you're a couple of "good eggs" as my late mother used to say. I've never had an issue with those who don't choose to tip over the daily gratuity. That's a total personal choice. My issue are with those who like to remove the charge & then pocket it. I know in most of Europe the wage scales are considerably higher than in the US. Unfortunately most cruise lines are US companies. & pax should abide by the rules, whether they are fair or not. Removing part of the income that these hard working people receive, simply because they don't like how Carnival corp. & cruise companies do their pay scales, is in my eye,and some others as well,is rather despicable. You'll see the same few who do this chime in at any moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted August 14, 2017 #141 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I don't see how you can claim that the system is fair when you pay it and others don't. I would call that grossly unfair. David. Simply make the service charge non removable! On NCL it's very difficult to do it. You now have to fill out a form upon returning home stating the actual reasons the staff that did NOT give you good service & any other reasons you wish to have it refunded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted August 14, 2017 #142 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Some do remove auto tips altogether, but I think it is very poor practice. The mass market lines have always had a charged separate gratuity per person at the end of a cruise, and this is shared equally between all staff, customer facing and those Behind the scenes, so by removing auto tip you don't allow this practice. However, some people do give tips to individuals in addition to autotip if they have given exemplary service. We always leave on the service charge. We also have ALWAYS tipped over & above. There are 2 reasons why we do this:1)In all our cruises(10+)we have never had anything but stellar service. 2)My partner & I are IN the food/hospitality industry. We are both salary, but DO also get tips. When were on holiday, we like to show a little extra love for those in our line of work. We're family & like to show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanemagnet Posted August 15, 2017 #143 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Simply make the service charge non removable! On NCL it's very difficult to do it. You now have to fill out a form upon returning home stating the actual reasons the staff that did NOT give you good service & any other reasons you wish to have it refunded. You are giving the rules for non-EU passengers on NCL. For EU passengers on NCL it is not difficult to remove the service charge, but impossible as there isn't a service charge. Since earlier this year NCL have only sold 'tips included' cruises through its EU websites. NCL isn't a luxury line, so if they can do it why can't Cunard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balf Posted August 15, 2017 #144 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Simply make the service charge non removable! On NCL it's very difficult to do it. You now have to fill out a form upon returning home stating the actual reasons the staff that did NOT give you good service & any other reasons you wish to have it refunded. Agree your first point, but the NCL policy is flawed. A service charge is either mandatory, or as with NCL and Cunard discetional. At the end of the day they have to return a charge unlawfully imposed regardless of some stupid form, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanemagnet Posted August 15, 2017 #145 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Agree your first point, but the NCL policy is flawed. A service charge is either mandatory, or as with NCL and Cunard discetional. At the end of the day they have to return a charge unlawfully imposed regardless of some stupid form, David. I agree, for non-EU passengers the requirement to submit a form is simply a speed bump in avoiding payment. For EU passengers there is simply not the option to avoid paying as there is no service charge (or an expectation to make a similar cash tip). There is just an inclusive fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovely other Posted August 20, 2017 #146 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Well,I'm a retired plumber and spent half my life on my knees.I will be sailing next year.Put me next to the bricklayer,lol. Can I sit next to you Brian? Hard working manual labourer here :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian1 Posted August 20, 2017 #147 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Can I sit next to you Brian? Hard working manual labourer here :D Hi,no probs,dont trip over my toolbag.I still cant bear to be without it,lol.Cheers,Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momoforthodoc Posted August 20, 2017 #148 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I have only removed the service charge once in over 40 cruises and it was on NCL for horrible service. When I sail on the QM2 the service is amazing and at the end of my cruise I always give extra tips to my waiters and cabin steward along with anyone else that has gone above and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balf Posted August 20, 2017 #149 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Hi,no probs,dont trip over my toolbag.I still cant bear to be without it,lol.Cheers,Brian. Too much of a wrench to leave at home. DAVID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian1 Posted August 20, 2017 #150 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Too much of a wrench to leave at home. DAVID. Yeah I'll have to get a GRIP of myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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