Sea Dream Incompetence

[frequent traveler]

Listen children and you shall hear the story of one . . . . very, very disillusioned former Sea Dream addict.

 

In a recent review of the Sea Dream II Atlantic crossing I expressed my belief that Captain Tysse and his wonderful crew would be a success in any service business. I now have to qualify this statement -- since they have to live with decisions made by Miami and the horrrible lack of communication to customers.

 

We were booked on the April 9, 2006 cruise of Sea Dream II and I was scheduled to stay on board in Barbados and make the Atlantic crossing to Funchal. Only 5 months away-- we have booked our airfare and were planning various shore excursions. Today, however, my husband alerts me to another posting here on CC stating that the cruise was cancelled due to a charter. Boy, was I surprised and thought someone had to have misunderstood, since we hadn't heard one word.

 

I immediately called Miami, and was placed on hold. I checked the Sea Dream web site and our cruise was still posted (my husband and I had been congratulating ourselves since the price had jumped up significantly since we had booked) so I almost hung up, but I'm glad I waited (otherwise, on April 9 we'd probably be standing at the dock waiting or reporting the ship as "missing" to authorities who would ask us how much rum or other contraband we had consumed):eek:

 

Yes, Jeff told me the cruise was "no longer available" -- that was it.:mad: No suggestions, no apologies, no nothing. So I asked to speak to a supervisor and was transferred to Susanne, who indicated that I had been left a message on November 29. Since no one in our party had received a message - I inquired what number she used -- apparently it was one from 3 years ago - a former assistant's extension. Not the number in my most recent 4 bookings or the number by which Andrew Cohen reaches me quite regularly.:confused: Susanne indicated that the ship had been chartered and was no longer available. That was it.

 

Now, I know a charter is the most revenue when bookings are light -- in fact for the same week before Easter last year - we were bumped from our Sea Dream II cruise and got the replacement "cruise from he _ _" on I, swarming with undisclosed children. However, in that instance we were offered alternatives at the time of cancellation without reading about it on Cruise Critic. (a different story when complainng about the children, again a Sea Dream failure, as Jim Avery will probably confirm)

 

I cancelled all 3 of our bookings. Susanne then e-mailed me a copy of a letter dated November 29 (gosh knows if we would have ever gotten otherwise -- our names were misspelled and the home address was wrong) notifiying us of the cancellation. Then when I get home tonight, in my e-mail there is a message from the same Susanne dated November 30 stating "we looking foward to welcoming you on board on April 9" -maybe I'm invited to the charter? (Don't think so!)

 

Full disclosure requires me to state that the misaddressed letter of Nov. 29 contains an offer of a full refund for the cancelled cruise (of course I'm still trying to figure out how they expected me to stay on board a cancelled cruise to make the Atlantic crossing (maybe they would come back to Antigua to pick me up?), changing to the San Juan cruise on Sea Dream I for the same week (would love to see Christophe, but not repeat the islands a third time) or the offer of a 20% discount on another 2006 cruise (great, except my husband who is a professor only has this week while the ships are in the Caribbean).

 

And had some one had the courtesy (after all, if this ship is so underbooked as to be replaced with a charter, how long would it have taken) to actually call or send an e-mail to a current address, I might actually had experienced "customer service" at the levels delivered by Captain Tysse and his crew. Unfortunately life is too short to repeat this every year (two bumps are enough) so we'll move on . . . .Ritz Carlton . . . Four Seasons . . . maybe Seabourn . . . Radisson

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

FT - soon to be a Frequent Traveler on something other than Sea Dream:rolleyes:

[Sea-hawk]

FT, our hearts go out to you and your husband. It is really unacceptable to be treated by any cruise line in such a manner, yet alone one with such lofty aspirations. Last year they bumped us over to another cruise to make way for a charter. I assumed it was a rare situation, but have come to see it wasn’t.

I agree with your decision to cancel and hope it, along with your posts here might shake some sense in the office side of things at SD.

I have always enjoyed your posts, the good and the not so good, and hope that you are too able to find something spectacular to make up for what should have been a great cruise.

Sea-hawk

[hottie]

i thought we had problems when we found out that our caribbean cruise was changed to the cancun cruise from hell last christmas time

 

i guess they figure what you don't know won't hurt you.....

 

we did take advantage of a significant incentive to try sd again, and the experience was much improved, however, we still prefer seabourn

 

good luck

[its_my_dime]

FT:

 

I'm sorry you got caught in this mess. It is clear from your posts how much you were looking forward to your upcoming trip. I think you got caught in the economics of the SeaDream operation.

 

Although I only have anecdotal evidence to back up the following, I suspect that this is the reality of the situation:

 

-Most passenger ship costs are fixed. The marginal (incremental) cost of adding one additional passenger to an otherwise empty cabin on SD probably does not exceed $50/day (it is much less on the mass market ships).

 

-SeaDream, with its 2 x 100 passenger ships is not really an economically viable retail operation. It is just too expensive to advertise and to run a home office and marketing operation for this limited number of passengers. Perhaps if they had huge travel agent support and dedicated customer loyalty with repeat business, they might pull it off but SD does not have either.

 

-The only way that SD can survive (assuming that the owners were smart enough to have a breakeven at less than 100% when they set up the operation) is to fill up its ships but we know that not all voyages are full.

 

(-Note, however, that the owners are part of the problem. On certain voyages that could be sold out to paying customers (like Christmas), the owner (s) ? , their family and friends take up cabins that might have been revenue producing. )

 

-Many small ships handle the issue by eliminating their marketing operation and chartering the ship to travel groups (colleges, museums, whatever), frequently for weeks or months at a time. These travel groups do the marketing to their own lists. But SD does not have zodiac capabilities and can’t be used for adventure travel which limits its options and market.

 

-So what is left are two options. Offering discounts to affinity groups and families who take multiple cabins and corporate / group charters one week at a time.

 

-Do they care that people get bumped and are unhappy....or that they might end up on a trip with 30 kids or major affinity groups? Probably a little? Will they do it again in the future? If they can fill up a ship with a charter or a bunch of cabins with an affinity group .... absolutely. It is the only way they can survive.

 

Of course, at some level, this is a risky self-fulfilling strategy. People with unhappy experiences post here and on rec.travel. cruises. Major events make it to the "Events at Sea" board. With the web, incidents of customer dissatisfaction that would never get media attention are now widely known. What, at one time, nobody but the injured party knew about are now public knowledge to travel agents and potential customers.

 

The SD home office now spends time fielding questons about past events (we know that many asked them about the "voyage from hell". )

 

This means more difficult retail marketing, more groups, and more charters and more bumped passengers. And fewer retail passengers to justify the continuation of the marketing department.

 

SD managment is going to face some decisions. I suspect that completelly getting out of retail may be one of them. What your post has done is to bump them just a little further in that direction.

[vandrefalk]

FT, that's lousy news -- I'm so sorry this happened to you. I checked the website and your 9 April cruise is no longer listed -- but the lack of timely customer notification, etc. is appalling.

 

Let us know where you land -- I've always enjoyed your posts!

 

Vandrefalk

[KatWag]

I'm sorry you had to go through this again. I'll be honest and say that my nephew and his fiancee were considering SeaDream for their honeymoon. I recommended against it based upon what I've read on the boards. Can you imagine if your honeymoon cruise got chartered out from under you? Any compensation offered would be very cold comfort.

 

I'll look forward to reading your reviews of future cruises.

 

Kathy

[zqvol]

FT and I will move on. What is clear from all of this is that SD is interested more in being a charter operation and not a regular line, thus the individual paying passengers don' mean much.

 

Already checking with the TA about Seabourne, Radison, Silver Sea, Crystal, or Windstar. Problem this year is that my break (I teach) is late and most everyone has already moved to the MED, thus my Carnival adventure in May. (I may be considered crazy for that one, but some times you need the Four Seasons and sometimes one of the motel chains works for you.)

 

We have the TA looking at land packages for us that week and I promise we will vacation somewhere warm, with lots of sand , sun and seas.

 

Hey a week in STT, is not so bad you can always get the ferry to St. John, Jost Van Dyke, and Virgin Gorda. Why do I need SD to take me to the same places over and over again.

[bergen]

FT and ZQVOL; seems like we are not to meet then.... We are probably to go for the SDI, but we have not really been discussing it yet. Have to see over the weekend what we will do.

[frequent traveler]

Well, fellow campers . . .I was hoping that this was just all a lousy nightmare brought on by some bad fish . . . but when I woke up this morning and ran to check the computer -- the April 9 Sea Dream II cruise was absent from the web site (yes, it was removed after my first phone call with Sea Dream yesterday).

 

After steaming all night long . . . does the phrase "deceptive trade practices" mean anything? As my husband phrased it --- hell hath no fury like a woman deprived of her Sea Dream II spring break --- especially since this is the 2nd year in a row that we've been bumped . . . I went to my office.

 

I arrived to a very nice e-mail from Susanne, the reservations manager, and a slightly condescending one from Adrienne (of all persons, the Sea Dream club manager). As Adrienne so kindly pointed out to me, during the past four years Sea Dream management has become quite experienced in dealing with the bumping issue (now, that's reassuring for future bookings:rolleyes: ) Adrienne also let me know that even though I hadn't received the misaddressed letter or the phone message, someone would have realized that they hadn't heard back from me and I would have been contacted . . .(Has Adrienne ever tried to make replacement plans for a luxury Caribbean holiday in a booming travel market? timing does matter:rolleyes: :rolleyes: )

 

Susanne repeatedly apologized (as did other Sea Dream staffers, and one mentioned reading my original post last night). I explained to Susanne why the proposed alternatives (see my first post) didn't work for us and that we just weren't prepared to pay the same price for a Sea Dream I visit to the same ports for the 3rd year in a row. Susanne then offered to check to see if a price reduction for the San Juan cruise would be possible. Hmm, this is a step in the right direction, I thought to myself :) . . . but it was ominous that the Reservations Manager had no authority. Susanne inquired as to what we were prepared to pay and I responded - I will leave it to Sea Dream to do what they think is right. (Thinking to myself -- this IS the same management that only gave us a $500 total credit for two people who suffered through the Sea Dream I Easter week 2004 cruise from hell . . .but maybe they've converted to compassion and customer service in the interim).

 

Susanne sent a replacement "offer" with a 25% discount per person. After several additional emails this was clarifed to involve a discount of approximately $1500 total for the week for 3 people, plus covering the increase in air fare (which to me was a basic requirement, not an enhancement to the first offer), plus an upgrade from deck 2 to deck 3. For us, this isn't a benefit since deck 2 is better in the event of roughness. But for others it might be.

 

We thought about it for a few minutes but declined the offer. I explained to Susanne that we had been willing to pay a single supplement for our 17 yr old on the Sea Dream II itinerary (places we'd never been) we weren't for the same ole, same ole ports - a 25% per person discount just wasn't enough -- especially in view of this happening for two years in a row and all the time we've spent on planning the holiday. If we seem greedy, I understand --please don't flame me. Susanne indicated that she would pass my message along to the President.

 

I wanted to share Sea Dream's response in case it was helpful to someone else. My company chartered Sea Dream I in 2003 and has been talking about it for 2008. I've been working on a fairly large family outing on Sea Dream for 2007 . . . but heh, my momma didn't raise no fool, I can take a hint . . . .

 

Happy travels

 

FT

[alita]

oh dear... this does not augur well, does it?

 

We are booked on 4 SD cruises now, 2 back-to-backs, and I've been studying the cancellation for charter dates to see if there's a pattern, but if there is I can't fathom it. What jumps to mind is that cruises at the beginning or end of a season could be more vulnerable as in the case of your spring 2006 cruise... as it happens we are booked on an end of Mediterranean 2006 and I wonder if we should even run the chance of being dumped... we haven't booked the air yet so if it were cancelled it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

The problem is of course that there's no deadline for the company to be able to ditch a cruise and do a charter... if there were it would be much easier all around. I guess I'll just hold off on the air and see if I can read the signs correctly in a couple of months.

 

Frequent Traveler, just want you to know how sorry I am for what happened to you... I wouldn't have booked SD for our upcoming cruises if I hadn't read your posts and been ignited by your enthusiasm and glowing reports. I can only say I wish they hadn't done this to you... and add thank goodness for the cc boards where you can share first the good, then the bad and finally the ugly.

 

alita :(

[upscalecruiser]

Dear FT

 

After reading most of your posts and following you on the crossing.

I consider you one of the best SeaDream Ambassadors.

But I am sorry to say, after reading this last post, I don't know if I feel so sorry for you. You raise hell because you where bumped off by a charter.

You've been on a charter yourself on SeaDream and looking into chartering with your family. What about the people your charter bumped or would bump off. To me it just sounds little selfish and double standard.....:confused:

My next cruise is on WIND STAR, but I will be back on SeaDream again later. I believe all the smaller ship "upscale lines" like Seabourn, SilverSea, Wind Star.................they need both Charter and regular cruise customers to be able to survive. I have good friends that have been bumped off Seabourn as well. They all do charters and they all bump off guests. Could it have been handled better in this case, yes I think so.

My conclusion, overreacting - needing attention.

 

Best Regards

Upscalecruiser

[abenaki]

I've been working on a fairly large family outing on Sea Dream for 2007 . . .

 

 

 

I find it amusing that you keep refering to a cruise from hell and then you state that you think it acceptable to book "a fairly large family outing" on Sea Dream.... You must realize that all of the other passengers would have a less than stellar trip with your large (probably loud) group on board. Or don't you care about that? If you think that Sea Dream should bend over backwards for you, why would you think it acceptable to subject the rest of the passengers to your group? Wouldn't a larger ship be more suitable?

 

I am NOT flaming you, but you seem to be on a crusade to turn everyone against a company that offers an excellent service.

 

Of course its too bad that you got bumped, but it happens very infrequently I am sure. Charters usually book well in advance and despite the impression that you are trying to create, voyages do not often get cancelled.

 

I would suggest to those of you who haven't experienced Sea Dream to think twice about cancelling. You are going to miss a wonderful experience because of the whining of a couple of people that YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW, who you are listening to on the Internet. Would you stop flying because you heard that someone was complaining about an ariline? Come on now... you have to think for yourself.....

 

As to the writer who stated that the ship will greatly suffer because people read these boards and will discover that Sea Dream is incompetent.... Get a grip, folks. Ease up on your own importance. Move on to another line, and give us a break.

[upscalecruiser]

I could not agree more with you. As you said, get a grip, it's about time to stop this kindergarten behavior. The world did not come to an end, there are more important things in life than cruising. 10 US Marines got killed in Iraq yesterday.

 

FT, your "problem" is of the luxurious kind, we all need to put things in perspective.

I hope to someday sail with Captain Tysse and his crew that are so highly rated by you.

 

Wish I could get a job on either WIND STAR or SeaDream as part of the Water Sports Team.

Guess they have no use for a retired Insurance Agent from IL.

[frequent traveler]

A charter on Sea Dream is definitely the way to go for a group family vacation or a company event where you need to occupy the whole ship.

 

The charter commitment is made and funded more than an year in advance -- at least for my company (two years) and on the 2007 family reunion charter we were working on (had to be done by the end of December, 2005) - I haven't even thought that we were bumping off any off any travelers from an unpublished schedule, but if we did, I apologize for interference with their vacation plans:o and hope they were able to make other plans that they enjoyed. I'm definitely envious of the group that could arrange and fund a charter with 4 months notice.

 

Yes, there are a lot of serious things going on in the world. No one would ever equate a derailed vacation and postings on Cruise Critic with the war, the ongoing need to support our troops and their families, and the victims of Katrina and Wilma and the earthquake in Pakistan/India, and other life altering events.

 

FT

[zqvol]

Two quick points that I must raise. The issues that both upscalecruiser and abenaki miss are: first: SD never notified us that the ship was being chartered, we learned it on cruise critic and second: the charter occurred four and one half months prior to sailing. It is also interesting to note that SD sent FT an e-mail after the ship was chartered telling her that they were looking forward to seeing her on the April 9th cruise. Can management not communicate internally as to what is occurring on this small line?

 

As far a bumping it seems from my perspective that it occurs very frequently on SD. This is twice in two years, in fact every cruise we have tried to book on SD, (except the company charter and the Atlantic crossing) we have been bumped off, this is simply not the way to treat paying passengers.

 

I still disagree with FT that the April 2005 cruise was the cruise from h… . Except for one or two occasions the children did not bother me and I did not notice them except when they were running around screaming when the cruise director was giving an announcement about the next day’s port. Some of the “adults” were much worse IMHO than the children.

[upscalecruiser]

zqvol, I mentioned in my post that I think it all could have been handled better by SD office in Miami.

But on the other hand and with the "beauty of the Internet", if one of the first persons contacted by SD regarding their cancelled cruise jumps straight to CC to tell the news. There is a chance someone will get the bad news through CC before SD gets hold of them.

Whos fault is this?:confused:

These message boards are both "positive" and like in this case " indirectly negative" for FT as she found out through CC about her cruise being cancelled.

But I do agree with you, it should have been handled better.

Happy Cruises................

 

Upscalecruiser

IL

[Rotterdam]

FT - thank you for informing us on this situation.. I heard good things about SD & was looking to sail with them in the future....but with the way management handled the problem I won't bother...Seabourn or Radisson will get the business.

 

On that notte - I will say I question your decisions to book with SD after what has happened to you twice. Your charters give you the entire ship but teh management is the same! Its a win win for SD - you get bumped they make more $$$$ & you charter the ship 2 more times????? HMMMMMMM?

[amyoscar]

as it happens we are booked on an end of Mediterranean 2006 and I wonder if we should even run the chance of being dumped... we haven't booked the air yet so if it were cancelled it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

We were booked on the 7 day cruise from Athens to Naples which became the 12 day cruise from Athens to Malaga. We were thrilled with the change in plans. Luckily we had not done anything about airfare or shore excursions yet. They also gave us a 20% discount off the fare for the new trip. Now I am getting nervous as this is our first SD cruise and I would hate to be bumped. Are you having second thoughts? What cruise are you on?

[zqvol]

Even though SD has offered us some nice options and discounts we have decided that the hassle and disappointment of being canceled or bumped is not worth the benefit so at this time we are looking elsewhere for our vacation plans.

 

As of now FT and I have nothing booked on SD.

[abenaki]

While Zqvol is giving the impression that every sailing gets cancelled, it is ridiculous for you to worry. You could also be hit by a bus couldn't you? I was just reading the same complaining on a Seaborne board, it does happen of course on any small ship, just as flights get cancelled.

 

Unlike Zqvol, I have NEVER been bumped on Sea Dream.

 

One WOULD expect that a company like SeaDream, who handle all of the details so perfectly onboard, would have a customer service dept equally top notch. Alas, perhaps they slipped up in this instance.

 

I would be curious to know how many cabins had been booked at the time the decision was made to accept a charter. While it is a disappointment to those affected, perhaps from a financial point of view, Sea Dream weighed disappointing only a small number of booked passengers.

 

Amyoscar, I repeat again, that for anyone to cancel the chance of experiencing a week on Sea Dream, because you are reading on the net that a crusie got cancelled, is not thinking logically. You are doing yourself a great disservice because of someone else's misfortune. If you think that Sea Dream corresponds with what you would enjoy, treat yourself.

 

Never been bumped and Never had a problem with Sea Dream, my dealings with the Miami office have always been seamless....

[Host Dan]

abenaki,

Just curious. What complaining on the Seabourn board are you referring to? I hate to say it, but several people, myself included, feel like we are taking a risk traveling on SeaDream regarding the last minute chartering business. (unfortunately for SeaDream, its common knowledge, and SEVERAL of my friends have been bumped at the last minute) Especially when the passenger is responsible for their own air tickets. IMHO.

 

Host Dan

[surfklutz]

I have been on SeaDream 5 times now and each time we have been treated extremely well by both the booking staff and the shipboard staff. One of my cruises was bumped by a charter but I was very well taken care of - I was offered a nice discount on another cruise and my airline tickets were changed by SeaDream.

 

It was explained to me that charters are only accepted if the sailing are not well booked. My understanding is that they will never accept charters on any sailing that is more than 1/3 full. So unfortunately, it look like you booked a fairly empty voyage. I am surprised that they did not offer you acceptable compensation.

 

I have been on the other lines that you have decided to opt for as an alternative - and I can promise you that you will encounter problems with those lines as well in certain similar circumstances. I certainly have. Raddison bumped me for a charter once - and then took their entire vessell out of service - but offered their 800 passenger ship as a replacement. Since I am a small ship fan, this was not acceptable to me.

 

As far as Seabourn goes, they are an excellent line if you want stuffy and pretention. I sailed on SeaBourne out of Nice one year and felt the entire ship was dead, no life, no emotion. Excellent service - but entirely void of enthusiasm or life.

 

Having sailed on over 60 cruises in my lifetime, I can tell you that the SeaDream experience is the only way to go. Anytime, any place, I will chose SeaDream. ( and secretly hope I get bumped for the compensation!)

[Host Dan]

I have been on SeaDream 5 times now and each time we have been treated extremely well by both the booking staff and the shipboard staff. One of my cruises was bumped by a charter but I was very well taken care of - I was offered a nice discount on another cruise and my airline tickets were changed by SeaDream.

 

It was explained to me that charters are only accepted if the sailing are not well booked. My understanding is that they will never accept charters on any sailing that is more than 1/3 full. So unfortunately, it look like you booked a fairly empty voyage. I am surprised that they did not offer you acceptable compensation.

 

I have been on the other lines that you have decided to opt for as an alternative - and I can promise you that you will encounter problems with those lines as well in certain similar circumstances. I certainly have. Raddison bumped me for a charter once - and then took their entire vessell out of service - but offered their 800 passenger ship as a replacement. Since I am a small ship fan, this was not acceptable to me.

 

As far as Seabourn goes, they are an excellent line if you want stuffy and pretention. I sailed on SeaBourne out of Nice one year and felt the entire ship was dead, no life, no emotion. Excellent service - but entirely void of enthusiasm or life.

 

Having sailed on over 60 cruises in my lifetime, I can tell you that the SeaDream experience is the only way to go. Anytime, any place, I will chose SeaDream. ( and secretly hope I get bumped for the compensation!)

Hmm... You sailed Seabourn out of Nice and found it stuffy and pretentious? Thats too bad... I have never found the passengers of Seabourn to be stuffy at all. Actually, I've made many friends!

Glad you found this site, and finally decided to post.

 

Host Dan

[hottie]

seabourn is my favorite, seadream is a poor imitation

the attempt at being seabourn level but casual and more intimate fails

 

although our makeup seadream cruise was nice, we have always had a great time on seabourn, socialized far more, stayed up dancing and singing in the piano bar, and found the food and service exceptional.

 

if only the cruise lines would change the itineraries and dates of sailings so we could plan all our vacations to see the world on seabourn, i wouldn't do it any other way

[dewla]

Hmmmmm.......v strange.

 

Must add that we just had the best vacation of our lives. LOVED the SD I. Hope it continues providing the casual elegance that we enjoyed so much.

 

Gee, maybe I should charter the whole ship next time? ha!