Airline changes heads up

[DaveOKC]

Since many of us book airfares well in advance for our cruises, very often (in my case MOST of the time) we experience the airline making changes to our flights prior to our departure.

 

This happened again yesterday to me on a Dec, 20 flight from San Diego to OKC (after our cruise). I had booked a 12:15 PM departure out of SAN and the airline changed it months later to 12:45 PM. Not a big deal, except that we now have only a 45 minute layover in Dallas (DFW) and on American this can be pushing it a bit, especially being Dec. 20 (weather and holiday traffic).

 

So, I looked at American's schedule and found that they also have a 12:11 PM departure (only 4 minutes from my original one) which gets me home at the same time but now we have an hour and 15 minute layover! Why they did not change me in the first place to this 4 minute earlier flight I cannot figure out.

 

So, I called American and spoke to a very nice rep who was happy to redo my reservation (no charge since they made the change originally, not me). It took about 15 minutes on hold (for some strange reason), but it was done and I am much happier with the extra layover time.

 

My point is, if you find that your flights have changed (even on a non-refundable fare), do not just blindly accept what you are rebooked on. Do your homework and see if there is a better option for you and then do not be afraid to call the airline and ask to be changed. Further, if you cannot find something that works for you, the airline may even simply refund your money, so be sure to ask about this option (of course they have rules and procedures to address this).

 

I hope that this information aids someone on our board in the future.

[kazu]

Very good tip Dave. I honestly didn't know that.

 

Thank you for sharing this very helpful information.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We always have to book flights months in advance as there are so few flights to anywhere.

And yes -- US Airways (now gone), Delta and American were always changing our flights. I always make certain that we have at least 2 hours between flights since I have to use a wheelchair and the last couple of years, the rules changed -- wheelchair people have to get off last.

So once I see that they have chopped our time between flights, I am on the phone calling the airlines and getting things changed.

[blizzardboy]

On a similar, but different note, we have a 2-week stay scheduled in San Juan in January, ticketed with American. I emailed them yesterday and asked if we didn't think our hotel, or the areas around it, would be vacation ready, would they work with us. Got a reply today, and they noted our account that we could make a change with no added fees, just the fare difference, and travel to be started within 12 months of original ticketing. They didn't have to do that, but it was appreciated. Moral of the story, don't be afraid to ask, nicely.

bb

[drowelf]

On the outbound leg of trip for a cruise, if a layover is necessary, I always setup the booking so that there is at least one additional flight available that day to make the TATL connection. Generally I'll shoot for two additional flights from our origin to the TATL Gateway. With most airlines only running 1 flight day from East Coast to Europe, missing that connection means a delay of 24 hours. There have been several times that we've spent pretty much all day in an airport (thank goodness for lounges) in order to be sure that we make that connection.

 

On the return leg, I'm not quite as picky. Hey I'm on my way home from vacation, so missing a connection just means the trip Home takes longer. My house is not going to sail away and have me try and catch up to it.

[Reagan0712]

I noticed this same thing just today. We booked a flight from Venice on Delta for next April that was scheduled to depart at 1:20p. I was on the Delta website today and noticed our flight (same flight numbers) now leaves at 12:45p. I wonder how many more times it will change until April.

[bUU]

I learned the hard way that generally Delta will not switch you from a connection to a nonstop even if it's going to get you to your destination much closer to the original arrival time.

 

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[Hlitner]

The 3 major US Airlines (Delta, American and United) all allow reservations up to 330 days in advance. But apparently those airlines view their reservations as simply advisory...since it is rare to book a flight far in advance and actually keep the schedule booked. But for us, American is the worst of the lot! Sometimes they totally defy any logic. Last year we had booked flights through ORD (OHare) to Puerto Vallarta with a 90 min time frame to change flights. But American changed our flights so that are connecting flight left ORD about 60 minutes before our originating flight even got to Chicago...and AA did not even give us the courtesy of notifying us of the change (and we are frequent flyers with our e-mail and phone numbers on file). When I noticed the change (by luck) and called them,,,they offered to let us fly to ORD the evening before (where we could spend the night in a seat within the airport until the morning flight). When I demanded a full refund (we had booked Business/First Class) they hesitated and then told us it would be several weeks until they could review our refund request. So, I read them the riot act, told them I expected a refund within 2 weeks (we got it) and also put the ticket charge into dispute with my credit card company! And we did book other flights (on Delta) to our destination.

 

So when I read these issues about US Airlines....folks sometimes need to take a stand. In nearly fifty years of extensive travel we have never had these kind of problems with European or Asian airlines. The EU actually has some tough consumer regulations that protect the public....but in the US...we still sadly need a tough airline/cruise line Bill of Rights with some real teeth.

 

Hank

[bUU]

So when I read these issues about US Airlines....folks sometimes need to take a stand.

Won't happen. These "issues," as you refer to them, have monetary impact: Elimination of any of the issues would result in some combination of two absolutely unacceptable results, higher fares to consumers or regulation-driven lowering of profits.

 

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Edited September 25, 2017 by bUU

[radiancecruiser]

It's not just in the US. We had a flight booked with Jetstar from Melbourne to Singapore for our cruise in February. Jetstar decided to completely cancel our flight, and none of the alternative options they offered were going to work with our other booked and paid arrangements...

We ended up having to cancel the flight, and book with Qantas at a higher price.

Fortunately all of our plans have stayed intact, but it was certainly a stressful exercise!

 

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[Hlitner]

Won't happen. These "issues," as you refer to them, have monetary impact: Elimination of any of the issues would result in some combination of two absolutely unacceptable results, higher fares to consumers or regulation-driven lowering of profits.

 

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Perhaps. But take the example I mentioned, where an airline changes your booked flight schedule where it no longer meets your needs (such as needing to arrive for a cruise at a certain time). You can nicely ask the airline to change the flights (assuming that airline has flights that will work) or refund your entire fare (and then rebook with a different airline). If the airline hesitates (which is what happened to us) you can immediately put the charge (through your credit card company) into dispute! This immediately gets you the money added back to your account (at least with AMEX) plus the credit card company gets involved in the dispute. But rather then being out your money (in the case of our flight we are talking about thousands of dollars) you now have the money and the airline is fighting to get their money...rather then the other way around.

 

My issue with AA was so outrageous (primarily because they failed to notify me of a change that made our flights impossible) that I was ready to throw the phone :(. AA admitted they screwed up...but quickly added it was a simple "software failure" which is a normal airline response. When I hear about "software failures" I quickly point out that it is THEIR Software and their failure and I will not be penalized because of their screw up. And for what its worth, we have several very expensive International Airline flights in our near future....and none of them is booked on a US Airline! While would I book with AA (or United) with the knowledge that they will likely change my flight, seats, or whatever....as they please.

 

When it comes to domestic flights, we will drive hours out of our way to use either JetBlue or Southwest. Those two airlines are more reliable and the few schedule changes we have had are generally a matter of a few minutes!

 

I do agree with you that more government regulation is often not the answer. However, I am a strong advocate of government regulations that mandate very large financial penalties for airline abuse of passengers when it comes to schedule changes. As of now, the airlines have no rules that prevent them from changing schedules at their whim.....even when it badly screws their customers. While some schedule changes cannot be avoided, most are simply for the convenience of the airline. If there is a strong financial incentive not to make changes...perhaps the airlines will start to take their own schedules serious.

 

Hank

[bUU]

Lots of words, but it's consumerist circular reasoning and doesn't hold water: What they do is bad because you don't like it, despite the fact that there contact of carriage explicit covers these circumstances.

 

I've noticed an uptick recently in people ignoring what they are actually buying and instead trying to insinuate that consumers should be able to unilaterally change terms as they wish. Very strange. That's a sure fire way to foster unfounded expectations.

 

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Edited September 25, 2017 by bUU

[Hlitner]

Lots of words, but it's consumerist circular reasoning and doesn't hold water: What they do is bad because you don't like it, despite the fact that there contact of carriage explicit covers these circumstances.

 

I've noticed an uptick recently in people ignoring what they are actually buying and instead trying to insinuate that consumers should be able to unilaterally change terms as they wish. Very strange. That's a sure fire way to foster unfounded expectations.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

Yeah, we hear you. So, according to you, consumers should have no rights, just accept whatever happens, smile, and move on. Forgive me if I am a bit of a rebel..). Guess we all have our faults.

 

Hank

[CheapieD]

No need for government intervention. All the airlines that have policies that cover changes in schedule, routing (ie #of stops), even equipment change (ie different plane type. Such as moving from a 737 to a RJ).

 

The rules vary airline to airline but are covered in the booking and ticketing procedures sections of the contact of carriage.

 

A general summary for the three majors 60 minute change allows free change, 2 hours allow for a refund. (United is actually 30 minutes, 2 hours. Delta 60/90, and AA 60/2 hours).

 

 

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[3rdGenCunarder]

I had a similar problem with United, flying Newark to Seattle. I don't know what it is with that route, but this summer was the third time I've flown to Seattle and the third time there have been changes. The first two times were minor changes in time, but one of them was also the flight number. The car service I had booked through the hotel months earlier, contacted me to ask if I was still going to Seattle, because my flight didn't exist. United didn't tell me. I went into my reservation and found the new number.

 

This time, there was a three hour change. My mid-morning flight suddenly became a 6 AM flight. And again, no email from United. I was checking to see if we still had the same aircraft (using seatguru to make sure the seat location was OK), and discovered that my reservation had changed. There was a notice that I could accept the change or call United to discuss my options. I checked flights, saw that there was a 1PM flight, and called to change to that. No hassle in making the change. But what upset me was that they had made a significant time change to my flight and failed to let me know.

[Hflors]

The last time I had a problem with an airline it involved a crazy change. I originally had booked flight from Baltimore to Hawaii. Two other couples wanted to join us for the cruise, but didn't want to fly that far so we all decided to leave from San Diego. I called the airlines and paid $150.00 change fee for each of us, but the only way to use the rest of the fare was to fly first class from Baltimore to San Diego. No problem, I can't remember, but I did have to pay a small amount (the difference between original fare and first class fare) We were originally booked Baltimore to Charlotte NC then Charlotte to San Diego. About 6 weeks before our cruise I checked our flight and noticed two plane changes. It now was Baltimore to Charlotte, Charlotte to Phoenix, Phoenix to San Diego. (We aren't keen on flying, and three take offs and landings is more than either of us want to take, not to mention it added about three more hours to our trip) so I call AA to ask what was going on. A very nice rep goes over the flight with me. She was very pleasant and then she says. "Oh by the was the last leg of the trip Phoenix to San Diego because of the "equipment" you won't be in first class." So I ask her what she means. She says. "It's just a small aircraft, but don't worry you won't be in the air long enough to mind." I couldn't believe what she was saying. I told her that if I am paying for first class then I expect first class and yes I do believe I "will mind"! So we try to find another flight. Forget it there aren't any flights that day that only have one plane change. Then she says "I don't know what you are going to do. I guess you will just have to keep your original reservation." I told her to just give me my money back, and she says she can't do that because the ticket is non-refundable. I asked her if I could speak to a supervisor and she transferred me. Good thing. After speaking to the supervisor I not only got all my fare back, but I also got the $150.00 change fee for each of us back. Luckily I checked with Southwest and booked non-stop Baltimore to San Diego both ways for about one third of my original fare with AA. After that I made it a point if I have to fly to ck my flights about every month and call as soon as I see any change.

 

PS - Now that we live in Florida and have 3 ports within 2 hrs driving distance it is so much easier!!!

[bUU]

Yeah, we hear you. So, according to you, consumers should have no rights, just accept whatever happens, smile, and move on.

Nonsense. I outlined very clearly that consumers have the ultimate in "right": They get to accept or decline whatever offers are made to them. What they don't have the right to do is accept an offer and then presume that they get to unilaterally change the terms and conditions that they already agreed to.

 

Forgive me if I am a bit of a rebel..).

Insisting that living up to the commitments you make "isn't for you" isn't "being a rebel".

[Tampa Girl]

Nonsense. I outlined very clearly that consumers have the ultimate in "right": They get to accept or decline whatever offers are made to them. What they don't have the right to do is accept an offer and then presume that they get to unilaterally change the terms and conditions that they already agreed to.

 

Insisting that living up to the commitments you make "isn't for you" isn't "being a rebel".

 

You have changed the issue. It is not whether a consumer accepts an offer and then wants to unilaterally change it. The facts presented in the foregoing posts show that it is the airlines changing what had originally been agreed upon and then, sometimes, balking at rectifying the situation.

[bUU]

You have changed the issue. It is not whether a consumer accepts an offer and then wants to unilaterally change it. The facts presented in the foregoing posts show that it is the airlines changing what had originally been agreed upon and then, sometimes, balking at rectifying the situation.

The only thing the airline agrees to, when you purchase a ticket, is the date, the origin and the destination. Purchasing a ticket the passenger agrees that seat assignments, routings and aircraft, and arrival times within certain parameters, are subject to change unilaterally by the airline with the passenger owed nothing.

 

Now this only covers the major airlines, American, Delta, United, Southwest, JetBlue, Alaska, Allegiant, Frontier, Hawaiian, Spirit, Virgin America, ... There are airlines that offer superior service, XOJet for example.

Edited September 26, 2017 by bUU

[mcmarya]

The 24 hour rule (you have 24 hours after booking a reservation to get a full refund) is a great example of consumer friendly government regulation. There have been some hearings in Congress recently about passing rules about minimum leg room/seat size since this is a safety issue. I don't know if there is a government rule about having to either provide a better option or refund in the case of a significant schedule change but I would not be surprised if there is. Otherwise I doubt any of the airlines would be willing to do this for free. This rule has been very beneficial to us on several occasions. Recently, my husband was going to have to "eat" a non-refundable ticket he booked, but got a refund when there was a schedule change. I've gotten changed from a connecting flight to a non-stop a number of times when this happened, though the last time was a couple of years ago. I was also able to change flights when equipment was changed to a commuter jet, thought, again this was a couple of years ago.

 

 

Sometimes it depends on who you talk to when you call. If you have a schedule change, don't accept without contacting the airline. It's always worth a try.

[blizzardboy]

I noticed this same thing just today. We booked a flight from Venice on Delta for next April that was scheduled to depart at 1:20p. I was on the Delta website today and noticed our flight (same flight numbers) now leaves at 12:45p. I wonder how many more times it will change until April.

In the past ten years, I don't think we've made any airline reservation several months out that haven't been changed once if not twice. About three weeks before last January's cruise, I looked, and an undesirable change had been made, but we hadn't been notified. AA helped us salvage acceptable flights. I later found out that our Bank's TA, who made our reservations because of our using credit card Reward Certificates, was notified according to airline policy but failed to notify us. It pays to check your reservations occasionally, regardless of "Alerts" you're supposed to receive.

[blizzardboy]

I learned the hard way that generally Delta will not switch you from a connection to a nonstop even if it's going to get you to your destination much closer to the original arrival time.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

I've had Delta move us to a non-stop when they generated a change in our original reservation that affected our arrival time. I do believe having seats in First/Bus class was probably in our favor. I also agree with Hank in that you need to stand up for yourself. I kill them with kindness, while asking to speak with a supervisor, if they don't seem to be "doing the right thing". Edited September 26, 2017 by blizzardboy

[bUU]

I've had Delta move us to a non-stop when they generated a change in our original reservation that affected our arrival time.

So have I. Evidently not any more.

 

I do believe having seats in First/Bus class was probably in our favor.

We were in first class. The agent was very nice about it and spent a lot of time and effort trying to get approval from her management but to no avail.

[Randyk47]

We booked our flights on Delta for our upcoming cruise several months ago. To get there and then back it involves some five flights, two outbound to Rome and three flights to return from Dubai. So far three of the five flights have changed times. Not much we could do as the proverbial "fine print" allows them to do that. The last change was a delay in the departure from San Antonio and an earlier departure for our Atlanta to Rome flight. Made me a bit uneasy but it was still doable. After some thought I called Delta and got a great customer service representative. While we still had slightly more than their 90 minute threshold between our scheduled arrival in Atlanta and our departure to Rome she moved us to an earlier flight out San Antonio. This gives us more time in Atlanta which is not necessarily good or bad but also gives us the flexibility of two more flights out of San Antonio that would still get us to Atlanta in time for our Rome flight. Better safe than sorry. I actually had not been all that thrilled with the original setup but it was a compromise to meet up with our friends and cruising partners in Atlanta and then travel together to Rome. Unfortunately it looks like they'll be dropping the cruise as their daughter has been diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia (AML) and in fact is being admitted to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta today for further treatment. As an aside I'd ask for your thoughts and prayers for our friends and their daughter as this is a very serious form of leukemia.

[blizzardboy]

So have I. Evidently not any more.

 

We were in first class. The agent was very nice about it and spent a lot of time and effort trying to get approval from her management but to no avail.

That's when I ask to speak with the supervisor. They put you on hold, and more often than not they come back with an approval, as "the supervisor was busy". If not, I have a pleasant chat with the supervisor. When all else fails, I write to Customer Relations and pick up a credit towards a future flight.

They deny initially because probably 90% of their customers aren't willing to be confrontational. No one responds well to angry words. I'm always polite but firm in my demands. I don't win them all, but I do come out ahead in most cases.

I haven't been flying Delta from Indy as much lately. If AA or United has comparable flights, Delta has been quite a bit higher. If they have a non-stop, they're much higher. AA has been very good about helping out when needed.