Nonrefundable clarification

[SRF]

Yes, that's what it means, but why not take the cruise already? The whole point of the penalty is to dissuade folks from moving their bookings.

 

I think the real reason for this is (especially for Suites) is to stop people form booking a number of cruises, that did not really intend to take, JUST IN CASE.

 

So if you plan on doing the cruise, you book it. If you are not in a Suite, you look at the cost/benefit, lower fare versus possible penalty.

[SRF]

It's in 14 months, airfares aren't out yet, it requires 16 hours of flying time and school schedules aren't even final. We need a wheelchair accessible cabin and there were only two left so we grabbed one with a refundable deposit. I would like to change to a nonrefundable booking because it is significantly cheaper but it also comes with considerable risk beyond what travel insurance will insure.

 

That is why you have an option.

 

However, if you cancel before final payment, and you have cruise insurance with cancel for any reason, you will be out $25 per person.

[SRF]

Hotels don't do this when I book directly with them. Airfare id different in that you pay the fare all upfront, not just a deposit.

 

A lot of hotels in resort areas do this.

 

Look at Booking.com or other sites. Many have non-refundable or penalty deposits. Some locations and dates require paying in full.

 

Even Marriott has pre-pay rates for some locations and dates. Fully non-refundable, non cancellable (you lose your ENTIRE payment), but you get a better rate. Hertz has this for car rental also.

 

Or maybe RCI should use the airline model. Book, pay in full. And BTW, if you book a low cost or discounted fare, there is some change fee and the airfare is non-refundable.

 

In fact, the cruise model of pay minimal deposit, fully refundable 15 months later, is INSANE from a business perspective.

[xcell]

So if you know that that's the ship the non-refundable seems to be the route to go.

 

If the price changes before final payment -- can you get it changed? Or will there be a service fee for this?

[Clarea]

So if you know that that's the ship the non-refundable seems to be the route to go.

 

If the price changes before final payment -- can you get it changed? Or will there be a service fee for this?

You can get price drops with an NRD booking with no service charge. You can also change staterooms and categories. The service fee comes if you change ship and/or sail date.

[bouhunter]

The non refundable is a gamble as we all know on a gamble the house akways wins

 

Not if you don't cancel.............

[xcell]

I know you cannot go from NR to R -- but can you go the other way??? so long as you have not passed final payment?

[deliver42]

I saved $400.00 by switching to a NR deposit on the Symphony. It actually made the cruise on a new ship almost cheap.

[rvrocker]

Not if you don't cancel.............

Royal is betting you do change or cancel. You are betting (hoping) nothing happens that you have to change or cancel

 

Sent from my SM-T818V using Forums mobile app

[Clarea]

I know you cannot go from NR to R -- but can you go the other way??? so long as you have not passed final payment?

Sure.

[Ocean Boy]

Yes, that's what it means, but why not take the cruise already? The whole point of the penalty is to dissuade folks from moving their bookings.

Is the other half of the whole point to get people to wait as long as possible before they pull the trigger and actually book? Probably not but that is exactly what they are enticing me to do. Now I'll have to wait until airlines open up their flights, see what is happening with other family members, see how work is going.... Somethings just cannot be anticipated a year or a year and a half out.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Ocean Boy

[AdGuyMG]

I went and booked the same itinerary with Princess who doesn't have this money grab and hope they never will.

 

Princess has plenty of promotions with non-refundable deposits.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1831085

[Ocean Boy]

You do.

 

NRD rooms are cheaper the fully refundable deposits. So you can choose. As the one poster mentioned, they saved over $600 by booking NRD.

 

EXCEPT for Suites. They are ALL (except JR suites) non-refundable deposits now.

No, that is a lower fare for accepting a non-refundable deposit. It has nothing to do with service fees or giving me a discount for doing all the work myself on-line.

[Ocean Boy]

The more I think about it, the more I think what bothers me the most with the move toward non-refundable deposits is that we already agree to a cruise contract that gives the cruise lines all the rights and the customer all the risks. This is just one more risk now being placed onto the customer. I wonder what they will think up next to transfer from being their problem to ours.

[Regguy]

That is why you have an option.

 

Right, I get it. I was just responding to biker's question about why we just didn't take the cruise already.

 

I actually think the choice is good. It lets you make your decisions accordingly. Do I wish they priced the cruises at the nonrefundable rate and also made them refundable? Sure. But so long as you know the rules -- hence my questions in this thread to get clarification -- I think it's all ok.

 

The one thing I find a bit self-defeating is that they have set up a system that encourages cancellation at the last possible minute. I think others have mentioned that. Maybe it doesn't matter that much, or maybe we'll see tweaks.

[SRF]

Royal is betting you do change or cancel. You are betting (hoping) nothing happens that you have to change or cancel

 

Do you really think that RCI is doing this for the whopping $100 fee?

 

For all the other headaches it will cause?

[SRF]

No, that is a lower fare for accepting a non-refundable deposit. It has nothing to do with service fees or giving me a discount for doing all the work myself on-line.

 

So you get a discount now for booking entirely online?

 

Oh, and if you use a TA and do none of the work yourself, you get the same discount for the NRD.

 

BTW, most airlines DO charge a fee to call and book versus booking online. And many have cut the TA reimbursement so much, you have to pay the TA to make the booking.

 

Maybe RCI should look into this. :D

[SRF]

Is the other half of the whole point to get people to wait as long as possible before they pull the trigger and actually book? Probably not but that is exactly what they are enticing me to do. Now I'll have to wait until airlines open up their flights, see what is happening with other family members, see how work is going.... Somethings just cannot be anticipated a year or a year and a half out.

 

Exactly. If you cannot predict your travel plans, then book refundable, or wait to book. If you can be more solid in your plans, then you get a savings to book NRD.

 

This is why the suites all have NRD. Too many people were booking lots of cruises just in case, and then canceling most of them at the last minute.

 

Oh, and BTW, if you wait, there may not be any NRD deals available at that point. Or even any cabins at all.

[SRF]

The more I think about it, the more I think what bothers me the most with the move toward non-refundable deposits is that we already agree to a cruise contract that gives the cruise lines all the rights and the customer all the risks. This is just one more risk now being placed onto the customer. I wonder what they will think up next to transfer from being their problem to ours.

 

They are OPTIONAL, except on Suites (other than JR suites).

 

YOUR choice.

 

And if you buy travel insurance with cancel for any reason, your non-refundable deposit portion will be partially reimbursed. Of course, the insurance will probably be more than $100.

[SRF]

The one thing I find a bit self-defeating is that they have set up a system that encourages cancellation at the last possible minute. I think others have mentioned that. Maybe it doesn't matter that much, or maybe we'll see tweaks.

 

In some cases, yes.

 

But if I book an NRD, and then find a different cruise, at a MUCH lower price I want to take instead, I will go ahead and cancel, use the FCC on the new booking. NOW.

 

The time that cancelling at the last minute makes sense is if you have no plans for another cruise. But in that case, I probably still would not have cancelled until the last minute, just in case things straightened up so I could go.

[Candleonwater]

Okay, I know I have an overly simplistic view of the world, so please help me understand the reasoning behind this policy? I am a perfect example of potential lost revenue when it comes to hotels, I usually have 2 or 3 different rooms booked, just in case. But when it comes to cruises, even if people have cancelled, I don't think many (if any) of my recent cruises have left the port with empty rooms - I always see the sign at GS saying the ship is full so there are no rooms available for upgrades... so where does the problem enter?

[Clarea]

Okay, I know I have an overly simplistic view of the world, so please help me understand the reasoning behind this policy? I am a perfect example of potential lost revenue when it comes to hotels, I usually have 2 or 3 different rooms booked, just in case. But when it comes to cruises, even if people have cancelled, I don't think many (if any) of my recent cruises have left the port with empty rooms - I always see the sign at GS saying the ship is full so there are no rooms available for upgrades... so where does the problem enter?

I think another aspect is how the refundable deposits show on the accounting books.

[printingchick]

At the time I booked my March 2019 cruise on Jewel, the NRD option was not available. When announced, I did a mock booking and determined that it would not have save me much over the $100 gamble, so it wasn't worth it. If I was looking at the kind of savings reflected in some of these posts, I'd do it in a minute. Life is a bit hectic right now, but when I have time to check, I'll evaluate the savings and consider switching if it's considerable.

[Regguy]

Okay, I know I have an overly simplistic view of the world, so please help me understand the reasoning behind this policy? I am a perfect example of potential lost revenue when it comes to hotels, I usually have 2 or 3 different rooms booked, just in case. But when it comes to cruises, even if people have cancelled, I don't think many (if any) of my recent cruises have left the port with empty rooms - I always see the sign at GS saying the ship is full so there are no rooms available for upgrades... so where does the problem enter?

 

I wouldn't necessarily assume that RCI is doing this because there is a problem that needs fixing. I'm sure the marketing on the reasons for it will pretend there's a problem that they needed to address. But, in the end, the only reason they need for a policy is money.

 

How this makes them more money is difficult to know. They must think it will. I can think of many possibilities. The first is taking a playbook from the airlines. The hope is to create a less attractive lowest price point but then add on higher priced options that still allow you to advertise and hook consumers at the lower price point. You can advertise a "$599" cruise that is actually a $799 cruise for those who need the flexibility of refundability. It's the same principle behind basic economy fares on airlines. They take a route that is $79, and they price the basic economy at $79 and then create a standard economy at $89, and make the $79 fare a handbaggage only or no-miles earning fare. Thus getting people to pay the extra $10 while preserving the $79 fare and coming up on the first page of orbitz for those who search across all airlines. Same with "resort fees."

 

In addition, there will surely be breakage. Some will lose their deposits and never recover them or allow them to expire. This is free money. Perhaps not a huge amount, but over the years it will add to the bottom line.

 

And then there is creating a disincentive to cancellation. If you read transcripts from investor calls from the major lines (kind of a nerdy thing to do, I know) you see that retention of early bookings is a huge revenue issue. They talk about it all the time. For example, on a recent NCL earnings call, there was extensive discussion about the differences between early booking trends for north american and non-NA customers and the measures that the cruise lines had to take to try to increase early booking and retention for non-NA customers. I don't really know why this is so crucial. Maybe it has to do with cash flow. Maybe it has to do with the marketing required to sell cabins closer to the last minute. Maybe it has to do with how earnings are booked, and a CPA could tell us. But this really seems to matter.

 

Bottom line is that when you want to understand why a company does something it's usually best if you just assume it's "money" even if doesn't make intuitive sense to how it works. Now, their experience may not match their projections and they'll have to tinker with it, and of course everything changes if the cruise economy softens.

[Candleonwater]

And then there is creating a disincentive to cancellation. If you read transcripts from investor calls from the major lines (kind of a nerdy thing to do, I know) you see that retention of early bookings is a huge revenue issue.

 

I like to read financial statements of big corps... I guess we're all nerdy in our own way.

 

Bottom line is that when you want to understand why a company does something it's usually best if you just assume it's "money" even if doesn't make intuitive sense to how it works. Now, their experience may not match their projections and they'll have to tinker with it, and of course everything changes if the cruise economy softens.

 

Just dislike such obvious money making changes. RCL is definitely NOT hurting in the bottom line. In the last two years their Adjusted Net Income has almost doubled, while the Revenues have stayed pretty steady... that has to say something, doesn't it? Not sure what, but something?