Anyone on BA in Winter Storm Grayson off Carolinas?

[Enavigo]

The bottom line for me is that NCL chose to sail INTO a storm that had hurricane force winds and 40' swells.

 

 

 

Except that is not what NCL did. [emoji849]

 

 

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[Tuffyleigh]

The bottom line for me is that NCL chose to sail INTO a storm that had hurricane force winds and 40' swells.

 

Except that is not what NCL did.

 

 

It's exactly what they did! They sent 4000 people including children into a "bomb cyclone" with hurricane strength winds and 40' swells.

[proll267]

I would’ve been in Vibe with a raincoat.

 

 

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[bob brown]

Not sure Baltimore would be an option (bridge height getting to port).

You are correct...she would not clear the bridges...but she could have gone into Norfolk in addition to the other's mentioned...

[Nybluenblue2]

After having time to reflect and speak to many people during disembarkation, I’ve come to the realization that I was on the”best” side of the ship & that’s why I felt safer than some of the other posters and fellow passengers.

....

 

Also, I ran in to a nice couple in Wasabi during disembarkation. They said the “code alpha” was for their family. Their brother-in-law was in congestive heart failure (had issues prior to cruise) and commended medical staff for saving his life. They said sometimes things work out for the best. They happened to be in BIL’s cabin because they had water in their port side balcony cabin. They heard him get up in middle of night and knew he was in distress. Medical staff said 5 more minutes and he wouldn’t have made it.

 

I definitely agree with Nybluenblue2 that an announcement from the Captain should have been made much sooner. I commented several times to my DH about that while we were going through the storm but chalked it up to the fact he had more important things to do at the moment like steer the ship :o.

 

 

Thank you, MM40, for clarifying the code alpha situation - thank G-d he survived!

[fstuff1]

I know I will get flamed for this, but all the comments about the ship being able to withstand the storm remind me of the claims made about the Titanic before she sailed. LOL

i was on the Gem a couple of years ago when it was hit with 70' waves during a storm.

i slept thru it but heard other passengers were throwing up.

did not hear and did not see any damage to the ship.

 

for this storm, i read that the Breakaway was only hit with only 40' waves.

if a smaller and older class ship like the Gem survived 70' waves, i wouldnt have batted an eye that the Breakaway was in danger from 40' waves if i was on this cruise

[chengkp75]

The bottom line for me is that NCL chose to sail INTO a storm that had hurricane force winds and 40' swells.

Except that is not what NCL did.

 

 

It's exactly what they did! They sent 4000 people including children into a "bomb cyclone" with hurricane strength winds and 40' swells.

 

I haven't been able to easily find a track map for Grayson, and BA was outside of AIS range for much of the storm, so I can't get their track to compare the relative positions of each, but one weather map I have seen (over on the Cunard forum), shows the center of the storm well off Nova Scotia at midnight Thursday/Friday and BA did not get to NYC until the afternoon of Friday. Even the weather map posted by mking on page one of this thread (showing the center as off Delaware), and using the onboard post by mm40, giving the ship's position as "north of Hatteras", I can say that the ship was considerably behind the storm. I'm too lazy to look through this thread to see if anyone mentioned onboard wind speeds, but at the distance from the center of the storm that the ship appears to have traveled, I doubt there were hurricane strength winds (most reports I've seen report hurricane strength gusts) at the ship.

 

 

BA decided to slow down and follow the storm, in my opinion the correct choice, in order to take seas on the bow. Wind appears to have been on the port side, causing the list, and as I've said, there is only so much liquid the ship can move to correct a wind heel, and a constant list is preferable to heavy rolling.

 

 

What interests me is that the QM2 delayed sailing due to the storm, and subsequently had to sail fully past the storm (rather than follow behind) off Nova Scotia and in the North Atlantic, at high speed, to make scheduled arrival in Southampton. No one complaining about putting their lives in danger there, but also no reports of damage either. If you look on the Cunard forum, the thread there even mentions the Captain making an announcement regarding the "technical difficulties" in handling a force 10-11 following sea, which BA would have experienced had she stayed offshore further as some have suggested.

[Christinamendez]

I think Christina Mendez is pretty convinced they will all die.

 

First of all...the cruise community is pretty heartless and reading some of these post I am shocked at some of the comments and assumptions. You should be ashamed of yourself. So here it goes (internt bullies);

 

1. It is NOT my first cruise I am a Latitude Gold member and cruised many times before. However I dont hoop on cruise board to talk **** or brag on each post.

 

2. YES I was nervous because I never been on ship in that type of weather and our captain offered VERY little useful or comforting announcements. Would be nice to hear “we attempted to pass the storm and sadly we are now in the midst of it. It will be an extremly bumpy ride for 36 hours but Please be assured that this ship is equipped to handle this and we are going to be OK.” We received NO info that we were heading towrads the storm or the storm. I learned more on social media.

 

3. I was traveling with 2 kids and one is autistic who was suffering from severe anxiety and I was helpless...any doctors on this post want to come comfirm that for the ones on this post that will question that too? Ugh

 

4. YES I was one of the only folks tweeting and posting because I was covering the trip for social media and had internet provided by NCL to document all the fun...but that turned sour on Wednesday night. My post had little text and they were more visual...so where did I mention “I am going to die”? Although I felt like I was.

 

5. If you were on the dam titanic and lived...awesome! I will send you a prize but dont down play someone eles experince because you dont know what other obsticles they were fighting within their cabins.

 

The end.

 

Ps: bring it on. Google me and feel free to contact me with the cyber bully directly.

[fstuff1]

What interests me is that the QM2 delayed sailing due to the storm, and subsequently had to sail fully past the storm (rather than follow behind) off Nova Scotia and in the North Atlantic, at high speed, to make scheduled arrival in Southampton.

No one complaining about putting their lives in danger there, but also no reports of damage either. If you look on the Cunard forum, the thread there even mentions the Captain making an announcement regarding the "technical difficulties" in handling a force 10-11 following sea, which BA would have experienced had she stayed offshore further as some have suggested.

wait.. the qm2 was in the storm and sailed in front of it?

wiki says the qm2 can go 30 knots. (wiki says BA, which is smaller than qm2, can go 21knots.)

the storm was that slow?

 

and if the BA was sailing behind the eye of the storm, then the capt could have slowed down even more?

then ramp up speed to make up time to make it to nyc port?

[LrgPizza]

I feel badly for those on board who were scared or who were uncomfortable or displaced due to water. Never was anyone in danger though. Just because they might have felt like that were, does not make it true. The ship can't control the weather, but they kept the passengers safe. They can't control the passengers' feelings either. Sorry some had bad experiences, but go hug your dog and move along.

[chengkp75]

wait.. the qm2 was in the storm and sailed in front of it?

wiki says the qm2 can go 30 knots. (wiki says BA, which is smaller than qm2, can go 21knots.)

the storm was that slow?

 

and if the BA was sailing behind the eye of the storm, then the capt could have slowed down even more?

then ramp up speed to make up time to make it to nyc port?

 

The QM2 sailed past the storm. She was behind it when leaving, and sailed past it on the edge. She was doing, according to a post from someone onboard 20-22 knots to make up lost time. However, QM2 had to fire up both gas turbines (a rare occasion for her) to supplement the diesels in order to get up to that speed (one diesel down for maintenance).

 

BA was surely not doing 21 knots going into headwinds and head seas as she was. Even putting out the same horsepower as BA normally does to make the 18-20 knots (not sure how much is needed in normal cruises), she would slow down due to additional forces. The Captain would probably also slow some more to keep the slamming and pitching under control. Not sure what speed over the ground she was making, but there is a certain point, dependent on the wind and wave conditions at the time, where if you slow down any more you will start to lose steering effectiveness as each wave tries to throw the bow to one side or the other, and then you run the risk of turning broadside to the seas, and the rolling would have been really incredible at that point.

 

In this situation, you are in the Gulf Stream, which flows north, and in seas being blown south, so seas tend to be very intensified in these conditions.

[mjkacmom]

It takes a few minutes to replace a window or door.

Please try to make sensible comments.

Windows and doors were not ripped off.

[Jenlek]

Windows and doors were not ripped off.

 

We were on this sailing and the metal balcony divider was ripped off between our balcony and the next. It banged all night against our window. We were Haven guests and a guest in 16700 reported that a window in her suite was blown out and all of her items swept out to sea. They were moved to a stateroom on deck 5. I heard reports of other balcony doors failing but do not know if they were "ripped off."

[April42749]

First of all...the cruise community is pretty heartless and reading some of these post I am shocked at some of the comments and assumptions. You should be ashamed of yourself. So here it goes (internt bullies);

 

1. It is NOT my first cruise I am a Latitude Gold member and cruised many times before. However I dont hoop on cruise board to talk **** or brag on each post.

 

2. YES I was nervous because I never been on ship in that type of weather and our captain offered VERY little useful or comforting announcements. Would be nice to hear “we attempted to pass the storm and sadly we are now in the midst of it. It will be an extremly bumpy ride for 36 hours but Please be assured that this ship is equipped to handle this and we are going to be OK.” We received NO info that we were heading towrads the storm or the storm. I learned more on social media.

 

3. I was traveling with 2 kids and one is autistic who was suffering from severe anxiety and I was helpless...any doctors on this post want to come comfirm that for the ones on this post that will question that too? Ugh

 

4. YES I was one of the only folks tweeting and posting because I was covering the trip for social media and had internet provided by NCL to document all the fun...but that turned sour on Wednesday night. My post had little text and they were more visual...so where did I mention “I am going to die”? Although I felt like I was.

 

5. If you were on the dam titanic and lived...awesome! I will send you a prize but dont down play someone eles experince because you dont know what other obsticles they were fighting within their cabins.

 

The end.

 

Ps: bring it on. Google me and feel free to contact me with the cyber bully directly.

 

Welcome back Christina. If I were on that cruise I would have been in hyper-panic mode, even without an autistic child

 

 

I'd love to put a blood pressure monitor on one of those "seasoned cruisers" during a storm such as you endured. Maybe they give a "Honorary Captain License" at the Behind the Scenes Tour and that qualifies them to understand ship mechanics and navigation. :)

[Enavigo]

I feel badly for those on board who were scared or who were uncomfortable or displaced due to water. Never was anyone in danger though. Just because they might have felt like that were, does not make it true. The ship can't control the weather, but they kept the passengers safe. They can't control the passengers' feelings either. Sorry some had bad experiences, but go hug your dog and move along.

 

 

 

+1. This is well said. No one on here has said they don't feel bad for what passengers had to endure or that they wish anyone ill will.

 

All I am saying is there is a difference between SUBJECTIVE and OBJECTIVE fear. There is also a massive distinction between hyperbole and fact.

 

 

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[maggie cruises]

I feel badly for those on board who were scared or who were uncomfortable or displaced due to water. Never was anyone in danger though. Just because they might have felt like that were, does not make it true. The ship can't control the weather, but they kept the passengers safe. They can't control the passengers' feelings either. Sorry some had bad experiences, but go hug your dog and move along.

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree that they kept the pax safe No the ship didn't sink nor did anyone fly off the decks or get hit by flying balcony dividers but they still should have stayed south of the storm or veered east toward Bermuda

 

 

In all my years reading cc I've actually never read as many reports of damage/water/balcony doors breaking etc as I have about this cruise

 

Imho keeping pax safe would mean staying south or east of the storm by 24 hours and arriving even later than they did

 

 

Disclaimer: please no comparison needed to the carnival Triumph or Splendor Apples and oranges

 

 

 

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[maggie cruises]

This is just the point though ... you are relying on "reports." No evidence or facts. And notice how poor reading comprehension skills by many in this board has caused people to begin to even exaggerate these "reports"? At first it was the balcony doors were "blown open." That makes complete sense to me as I can pop those things open with a screwdriver. Then, all of a sudden, it was the dividers were blown OFF. So what is it? Blown open? Probably Blown OFF? Doubtful.

 

I would have a field day cross examining some of these purported witnesses.

 

 

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Of course there will always be 3 sides to this issue but that's a non issue actually to me at this point...now since I'm thinking this through I'm more concerned with the pax reaction to this captain

 

Honestly...such poor communication? Such little reassurance?

 

One has to wonder why?

 

Was the captain aware the situation was much more dangerous than anyone wants to admit?

 

Was he just so professional and focused that his 1st priority was guiding the ship and not reassuring pax?

 

Or was the situation not critical at all but the motion of the waves made it just seem that way?

 

Bottom line and whatever the "real" situation was, this captain is being criticized more than any I've ever heard on these boards

 

He had no regard for pax emotions that he couldn't give comforting reassuring hourly reports?

 

Something was very wrong on that bridge...

 

That's not saying it was or wasn't a crisis...it's saying that bridge had little respect for pax emotions

 

It's also saying that the bridge should have realized that with 4000 pax anything was possible. Mob mentality comes to mind. If I were in authority I would be very very sure to keep these pax calm...very calm.

 

I think ncl is very lucky that the vast majority of NYC cruisers who are will to pay the inflated prices for a Nye cruise are probably the type that can control themselves in situations like this

 

 

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[ryba]

Just off the ship, cannot believe we are finally on land... and we are seasoned cruisers. This was a cruise from hell.

 

Matko Candrlic was was our captain. Stay as far away as possible from this ship for as long as he is in charge. How dare he knowingly takes us right into a cyclone, endangiring our lives!!! Families with crying children, scared disabled, sick passengers on the floor, tilted, jerking and rocking ship, broken windows and balconies, howling wind inside, water filling public spaces and cabins, passengers and staff injured, code ‘alpha’ in the middle of the night, no announcements until captain is pressed to make them, no ownership from the management, no attention to passengers... the list can go on and on. The worst decisions from the management from day 1 and all throuout the cruse.

 

And to all of you, self-appointed judges and ‘how bad can it be’ commentators - talk to the passengers before making your sarcastic remarks! Hope you never have to live through anything like this.

 

From someone who sailed on Anthem's storm sailing, I am really sorry for what you had to experience. No vacationing cruiser should be put through such a traumatizing experience. Glad you guys made it home safe!

[ryba]

First, let me start with the obvious, I am so sorry you all had to go through what you did the past few days. I can't imagine what that must have been like and I'm sure I would have been concerned for my safety as well.

 

That said, I would encourage you all to take a deep breath and take some time to gather your thoughts. After you do, please take a brief look at your contract of carriage. I will offer you this free legal advice ... you have only one option: file for binding arbitration in Miami. That is it. Nothing else. No class action, no suit or actions filed outside of FL.

 

Multitudes of courts (at both the state and federal level) have adjudicated the enforceability of these provisions and the law is settled. These are invariably enforced by their terms. If you can somehow show fraud in the inducement, then perhaps you could void the whole contract (including the arbitration clause), but that is so highly unlikely it almost does not even bear mention.

 

Again, I can only imagine what you have gone through and it would certainly have me wondering if cruising (or cruising with NCL) was for me, but understand that you agreed to the terms of carriage the moment you walked on the ship.

 

 

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There are two active class action lawsuits against RCCL for Anthem and both were granted permission to proceed by courts of law. I am a part of one of them and can't speak in detail, but they are active and moving forward against the cruise line.

[Enavigo]

There are two active class action lawsuits against RCCL for Anthem and both were granted permission to proceed by courts of law. I am a part of one of them and can't speak in detail, but they are active and moving forward against the cruise line.

 

 

 

I don't have my PACER password handy so I can't see the actual filings, but I just looked up the docket for DeLuca. The case was dismissed after settlement in July. Following the docket is interesting. RCCL filed a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim (the formal filing that would be made to enforce the contract terms). After hearing, the plaintiff was ordered to refile an amended complaint. He plaintiff sought multiple extensions to file, But that never happened ... they settled.

 

I also read the complaint itself. It's attempt to void the limitation clause was dubious at best. They told the court it should ignore the RCCL contract terms in reliance on a federal statute. Only problem is that statute ONLY applies to injury or death on a cruise ship. They then go on to make a blanket statement about "intentional" actions on the part of the captain and cite a Carnival case in which the facts were entirely different. It is obvious, the claim was gong to have to extend settled law were it to continue.

 

As opposed to risking losing on jurisdictional grounds, they settled, which RCCL was probably more than happy to do at that point to have it go away.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

There are two active class action lawsuits against RCCL for Anthem and both were granted permission to proceed by courts of law. I am a part of one of them and can't speak in detail, but they are active and moving forward against the cruise line.

 

I assume you are part of the DeLuca v RCI class action suit, but the other suit, Simpson v RCI was never a class action suit, and was dismissed 11/22/17 from what I can see.

[chengkp75]

I don't have my PACER password handy so I can't see the actual filings, but I just looked up the docket for DeLuca. The case was dismissed after settlement in July. Following the docket is interesting. RCCL filed a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim (the formal filing that would be made to enforce the contract terms). After hearing, the plaintiff was ordered to refile an amended complaint. He plaintiff sought multiple extensions to file, But that never happened ... they settled.

 

I also read the complaint itself. It's attempt to void the limitation clause was dubious at best. They told the court it should ignore the RCCL contract terms in reliance on a federal statute. Only problem is that statute ONLY applies to injury or death on a cruise ship. They then go on to make a blanket statement about "intentional" actions on the part of the captain and cite a Carnival case in which the facts were entirely different. It is obvious, the claim was gong to have to extend settled law were it to continue.

 

As opposed to risking losing on jurisdictional grounds, they settled, which RCCL was probably more than happy to do at that point to have it go away.

 

 

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Yeah, Pacer is where I found the Simpson case, but I don't belong. You were posting when I was, I didn't look up the DeLuca case. Interesting that the poster doesn't know that his case was settled.

[suffield12]

I haven't been able to easily find a track map for Grayson, and BA was outside of AIS range for much of the storm, so I can't get their track to compare the relative positions of each, but one weather map I have seen (over on the Cunard forum), shows the center of the storm well off Nova Scotia at midnight Thursday/Friday and BA did not get to NYC until the afternoon of Friday. Even the weather map posted by mking on page one of this thread (showing the center as off Delaware), and using the onboard post by mm40, giving the ship's position as "north of Hatteras", I can say that the ship was considerably behind the storm. I'm too lazy to look through this thread to see if anyone mentioned onboard wind speeds, but at the distance from the center of the storm that the ship appears to have traveled, I doubt there were hurricane strength winds (most reports I've seen report hurricane strength gusts) at the ship.

 

 

BA decided to slow down and follow the storm, in my opinion the correct choice, in order to take seas on the bow. Wind appears to have been on the port side, causing the list, and as I've said, there is only so much liquid the ship can move to correct a wind heel, and a constant list is preferable to heavy rolling.

 

 

What interests me is that the QM2 delayed sailing due to the storm, and subsequently had to sail fully past the storm (rather than follow behind) off Nova Scotia and in the North Atlantic, at high speed, to make scheduled arrival in Southampton. No one complaining about putting their lives in danger there, but also no reports of damage either. If you look on the Cunard forum, the thread there even mentions the Captain making an announcement regarding the "technical difficulties" in handling a force 10-11 following sea, which BA would have experienced had she stayed offshore further as some have suggested.

 

Good to see a sensible and accurate statement. Whilst not on-board during the passage, as an experienced Master I can concur that to slow down and ultimately take the sea on the bow is standard practice. Taking water into the accommodation on the lower weather decks is inevitable with so many none weather tight doors. At no point would the watertight integrity of the vessel actually be compromised in such a scenario.

 

Reading through the comments, the issue appears to be the excessive rolling and slamming? We can't have everything...either these vessels are built with a deep draft and low centre of gravity or they are shallow draft to allow entry into tourist ports and ever expanding superstructures with huge windage and higher centre of gravity.

 

For people to demonize the Master is wrong and to assume that he or his senior officers would wilfully put the vessel and it's compliment in real danger is nonsense.

[Enavigo]

Yeah, Pacer is where I found the Simpson case, but I don't belong. You were posting when I was, I didn't look up the DeLuca case. Interesting that the poster doesn't know that his case was settled.

 

 

 

Simple members of the class (rather than the lead plaintiff) rarely get anything out of it. After the firm deducts their expenses and takes 1/3 of the remaining amount it typically leaves little to be distributed to the class.

 

Might have got a small check in the mail or they may still be working on the disbursements, I'm not aware of the timing of class action settlement in the federal regime.

 

My guess it was a low settlement number that RCCL just could not turn down. If I were RCCL, I actually would have wanted to litigate this to conclusion. It could have closed another l attempt by the class action bar to erode contract enforceability provisions in the cruise industry (which the Supreme Court has consistently enforced). The facts were not very sympathetic and a bench trail would have been favorable (more likely than not). Now, if there were claims or significant injury/death, those are the cases you settle quickly!

 

 

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[nomad098]

 

That said, I would encourage you all to take a deep breath and take some time to gather your thoughts. After you do, please take a brief look at your contract of carriage. I will offer you this free legal advice ... you have only one option: file for binding arbitration in Miami. That is it. Nothing else. No class action, no suit or actions filed outside of FL.

 

 

Just for clarity UK bookings are not subject to US law.

They use to be but it all changed after the Costa Concordia incident.

All bookings made in the UK are subject to UK law as per your cruise contract.

This applies to all cruiselines not just NCL.

 

If you book in the EU your contract with NCL is subject to German law.

 

I know the majority of people affected were subject to US law but not all.