Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[pully8]

Much of these experiences sound difficult albeit people are trying to make the best of their trips. We have had high and low water issues over the years with European river cruising, but this current low water and drought sounds serious and must be negatively impacting on the local economy as well as tourism.

gracebest sorry you missed much of Zurich it is worth a longer stay next time if possible, it is a delightful place with great public transport including trams, trains and the vessels on the lake.

lets hope the weather offers some remedy to the drought and water levels soon. 

 

[Mark_T]

This morning the two ships that AMA/APT had moored at Dussledorf, after they failed to get through the Rhine Gorge on their way towards Budapest, have departed heading north.

I was expecting them to remain in the area to receive the passengers coming the other way once they had reached Passau and could not proceed further on water, but this departure is several days too early for that.

I guess we will have to wait and see where they settle next...

 

 

[austinetc]

One more thing to worry about.  Shutting down the river to detonate more bombs.

https://www.thelocal.de/20181018/record-low-water-levels-expose-world-war-ii-bomb-in-cologne

[notamermaid]

Pully8,

It is bad for the economy, logistics are badly affected, all the commodities that are transported along the Rhine are hit. Heating oil will be more expensive this winter, there have been reports of shortages of some raw materials. BASF in Ludwigshafen, the massive chemical company is of course not happy and scrap metal is not reaching its destination within the normal time frame and in the normal quantities.

On top of all that there is another problem adding to the time factor: river closure. I have already mentioned a tanker having got stuck. During the rescue operation there was fortunately one-lane traffic, not a complete closure.

But today the river was closed at Cologne for a while as yesterday an unexploded bomb was found in the river bed South of the city centre at Rhine kilometre 684. It was destroyed in a controlled explosion just after one pm and police have already declared that traffic can resume.

All those unexploded bombs, we live with them, but it is nevertheless a scary thought.

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

4 minutes ago, austinetc said:

One more thing to worry about.  Shutting down the river to detonate more bombs.

https://www.thelocal.de/20181018/record-low-water-levels-expose-world-war-ii-bomb-in-cologne

Our posts crossed. This one is now gone but is not the last they will have found. I suspect the current drought will reveal another one somewhere along the river.

The level at Kaub is forecast to fall to 24cm!

notamermaid

 

 

[austinetc]

Just in time to not help our cruise, Basel's extended weather forecast from Oct 28th predicts eight out of nine days of some rain, without the words "a little". From what I gather Basel's area feeds both the Rhine and Danube, yes?

[notamermaid]

Not quite. The Basel area and about two thirds of Switzerland feed the Rhine. East-southeast of Basel is the divide and the drainage system of the Danube. The mountains are called the Swabian Jura and at the closest point Rhine and Danube are only about 60 kilometres away from each other, but I would need to check the figure again.

notamermaid

 

[austinetc]

54 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Not quite. The Basel area and about two thirds of Switzerland feed the Rhine. East-southeast of Basel is the divide and the drainage system of the Danube. The mountains are called the Swabian Jura and at the closest point Rhine and Danube are only about 60 kilometres away from each other, but I would need to check the figure again.

notamermaid

 

Well, I've pretty much given up on any improvement on the Danube.  But I need this weather front to put its racing shoes on.  My cruise is scheduled to go through the Rhine Gorge on the 30th. I have little hope, but the forecast is better than anything I've seen in a month.

Edited October 18, 2018 by austinetc
fix

[G.M.T.]

The Danube loose water to the Rhine, in what is called Stream Capture, in this case it is known as the Danube Sinkhole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube_Sinkhole

This is from Wikipedia:

Since the Swabian Alb is largely shaped of porous limestone, and since the Rhine's level is much lower than the Danube's, today subsurface rivers carry much water from the Danube to the Rhine. On many days in the summer, when the Danube carries little water, it completely oozes away noisily into these underground channels at two locations in the Swabian Alp, which are referred to as the Donauversickerung (Danube Sink). Most of this water resurfaces only 12 kilometres (7 mi) south at the Aachtopf, Germany's wellspring with the highest flow, an average of 8,500 litres per second (300 cu ft/s), north of Lake Constance—thus feeding the Rhine. The European Water Divide applies only for those waters that pass beyond this point, and only during the days of the year when the Danube carries enough water to survive the sink holes in the Donauversickerung.

Since such large volumes of underground water erode much of the surrounding limestone, it is estimated that the Danube upper course will one day disappear entirely in favor of the Rhine, an event called stream capturing.

 

[Dance momma]

Im hoping and crossing my fingers that. Our cruise on the River. Empress on November 5th is a GO!!!  We have been planning this trip for over a year!

[Mark_T]

4 hours ago, Mark_T said:

This morning the two ships that AMA/APT had moored at Dussledorf, after they failed to get through the Rhine Gorge on their way towards Budapest, have departed heading north.

I was expecting them to remain in the area to receive the passengers coming the other way once they had reached Passau and could not proceed further on water, but this departure is several days too early for that.

I guess we will have to wait and see where they settle next...

Just heard that APT have cancelled the next 4 cruises between Amsterdam and Budapest 😞

• 26 October 2018 – Amsterdam to Budapest
• 26 October 2018 – Budapest to Amsterdam
• 27 October 2018 - Amsterdam to Budapest
• 27 October 2018 - Budapest to Amsterdam

I won't be surprised to hear that the 4 currently in progress are coming to an early end as well.

Guess the ships are repositioning back to safer areas now or to handle the remains of the current cruises in progress.

Ours is the next in line after the ones that have been cancelled so I guess we are a couple of weeks away from a similar decision if nothing changes...

 

[notamermaid]

G.M.T., Donauversickerung, that is a fascinating read. Thank you. Things are constantly changing in the landscape around albeit very slowly. In many years from now the landscape of Germany will have changed considerably.

Here is a fun fact: the Thames in England was once a tributary of the Rhine. During the ice age the rivers flowed a different path and met somewhere in what is now the English island as we know it and flowed as one into the North Sea much further North than the Rhine does today.

Currently the river looks so diminished that one might assume it is possible to get beavers to build a dam at Bacharach in the Rhine gorge and cut it off from the North completely. If it wasn't for the Moselle...

notamermaid

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by notamermaid
Autocorrect getting in the way

[notamermaid]

4 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

Just heard that APT have cancelled the next 4 cruises between Amsterdam and Budapest 😞

• 26 October 2018 – Amsterdam to Budapest
• 26 October 2018 – Budapest to Amsterdam
• 27 October 2018 - Amsterdam to Budapest
• 27 October 2018 - Budapest to Amsterdam

I won't be surprised to hear that the 4 currently in progress are coming to an early end as well.

Guess the ships are repositioning back to safer areas now or to handle the remains of the current cruises in progress.

Ours is the next in line after the ones that have been cancelled so I guess we are a couple of weeks away from a similar decision if nothing changes...

 

Oh dear. I am sorry to read that. At least you are mentally prepared. But it could still work out for you. It also partly depends of course if APT is going to take the risk and wait to see if better weather reports come in.

Oh, it is all a mess...

I sincerely hope it will work out for you.

notamermaid

 

[Roz]

58 minutes ago, Dance momma said:

Im hoping and crossing my fingers that. Our cruise on the River. Empress on November 5th is a GO!!!  We have been planning this trip for over a year!

Dance momma, I'm also on the Nov. 5 River Empress, as is a couple I've been emailing with.  I leave Nashville on Nov. 3, so if there are any major changes (like a cancellation!) I hope I know beforehand.  My air is booked thru Uniworld.  If it turns into a bus trip all or part of the way, I'll just roll with it.  I can't imagine the logistical headaches associated with trying to arrange buses and hotel rooms for almost 200 people at a moment's notice.

Roz

 

[Dance momma]

23 minutes ago, Roz said:

Dance momma, I'm also on the Nov. 5 River Empress, as is a couple I've been emailing with.  I leave Nashville on Nov. 3, so if there are any major changes (like a cancellation!) I hope I know beforehand.  My air is booked thru Uniworld.  If it turns into a bus trip all or part of the way, I'll just roll with it.  I can't imagine the logistical headaches associated with trying to arrange buses and hotel rooms for almost 200 people at a moment's notice.

Roz

 

Hi Roz,

 

Im sooo excited for this trip we are traveling with friends from New Jersey,  we booked our air thru Uniworld as well and are leveling on November 3rd!  Going to roll with things! Just curious have you received your cruise documents yet?  We have not and our friends have not, travel agent has requested that they be resent, supposedly sent in August !  I have been messaging with tom and Judy as well!  It will be a great trip one way or another!

 

patty

[notamermaid]

River levels upstream from Rüdesheim and in the Rhine gorge as well as Koblenz remain more or less unchanged. Koblenz to Amsterdam: the river section from Koblenz to about the border with the Netherlands (I am not familiar with the situation in our neighbouring country) has a desired navigation channel depth of 2.50m and then later even 2.80m. In this drought we are far below those figures. Both Andernach and Bonn downstream from Koblenz have got themselves new lowest ever recorded water levels earlier today. So while river traffic is still moving, things are getting tighter and ships at least slower. Bonn currently has a navigation channel depth (on paper) of 197cm. Trickier still than the actual sailing is finding suitable places to dock. They are getting scarce upstream from Bonn. Many docking places do not have the depth of the navigation channel and become inaccessible. This has happened to landing stages for river cruise ships and excursion boats.

Another ferry has stopped sailing...

This is the 16th update of the low water situation report of the BAfG in Germany (short English summary at the end). The photo of the Rhine near Bacharach in the Rhine gorge says it all: https://www.bafg.de/DE/07_Nachrichten/BfG_Niedrigwasserbericht_181018.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

Abb.7 shows you the graph of what the experts think will happen at Kaub in the next few days.

notamermaid

 

 

[Roz]

2 hours ago, Dance momma said:

Hi Roz,

 

Im sooo excited for this trip we are traveling with friends from New Jersey,  we booked our air thru Uniworld as well and are leveling on November 3rd!  Going to roll with things! Just curious have you received your cruise documents yet?  We have not and our friends have not, travel agent has requested that they be resent, supposedly sent in August !  I have been messaging with tom and Judy as well!  It will be a great trip one way or another!

 

patty

 

Patty,

No, I haven't received my docs, but in the past I didn't get them until 2-3 wks. beforehand, so I haven't  thought much about it.  I was previously booked on the Oct. 28 Basel to Amsterdam and got switched, so everything had to be changed.  Thanks for the reminder.  I'll call my TA tomorrow.  She had put together a little pre-cruise pkg. for me, so that also had to be changed.  I was going to stay after the cruise in Amsterdam, but now I'm spending an extra day before the cruise.

Roz

P.S.  Things could be worse - locusts and boils?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Roz

[TakResiuc]

Hello there, I am due to sail from Amsterdam to Basel, departing Sunday the 21st. Was curious if there is any hope of Not doing the ship swap I was notified may happen. 🤞🏻🤞🏻

 

Kathie 

Sailing VR-Kara, now Hiln 

[austinetc]

5 minutes ago, TakResiuc said:

Hello there, I am due to sail from Amsterdam to Basel, departing Sunday the 21st. Was curious if there is any hope of Not doing the ship swap I was notified may happen. 🤞🏻🤞🏻

 

Kathie 

Sailing VR-Kara, now Hiln 

I see no hope.  

[Mark_T]

34 minutes ago, TakResiuc said:

Hello there, I am due to sail from Amsterdam to Basel, departing Sunday the 21st. Was curious if there is any hope of Not doing the ship swap I was notified may happen. 🤞🏻🤞🏻

 

Kathie 

Sailing VR-Kara, now Hiln 

Personally I'd say that if the only problem you encounter is a ship swap you will have been very fortunate.

 

I would take that as a win, not as a disappointment...

 

[austinetc]

I'm getting pretty good at tracking ships.  There are six Viking ships downriver from the Rhine Gorge.  Three ships are supposed to depart from Amsterdam in the next two days; two for Basel, the other for Budapest.  There is only one ship in Amsterdam (Eir).  She appeared to stick to the proper schedule from Cologne with a four hour stop in Kinderdijk today (Thursday).  Two ships are heading north.  One just left Dusseldorf (Mimir), which is where it arrived this morning from the north.  I assume traffic slowed her down so she couldn't reach Cologne or Koblenz in time to disembark passengers in those locations.   Or perhaps that bomb had something to do with it.  Another ship just left Koblenz (Hlin), which I guess means she'll have to move fast to arrive in Amsterdam by Saturday.  Hope they don't find another bomb.

 

None of these ships are the ones that were scheduled to pick up passengers this weekend.  Hurrah for Viking and their identical ships.

[Wannawander]

https://www.thelocal.de/20181018/record-low-water-levels-expose-world-war-ii-bomb-in-cologne

i know this isn’t new news but interesting article

[notamermaid]

Hello Wannawander,

nice to hear from you again. To my shame I realized yesterday that I never replied to your original post. Thank you so much for posting your mum's and your story. It was very moving. On your recent travels I know you could not get to the place you where born - too far from the river - but was wondering how your trip has been?

 

notamermaid

 

P.S. Busy days ahead but will be back here tonight.

[Mark_T]

22 hours ago, Mark_T said:

This morning the two ships that AMA/APT had moored at Dussledorf, after they failed to get through the Rhine Gorge on their way towards Budapest, have departed heading north.

I was expecting them to remain in the area to receive the passengers coming the other way once they had reached Passau and could not proceed further on water, but this departure is several days too early for that.

I guess we will have to wait and see where they settle next...

 

 

Just to close this one off, both ships (AmaVenita, AmaVerde) continued on straight back to Amsterdam where they are currently moored with no cruises scheduled for the next three weeks as their next cruises were cancelled.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mark_T

[Cobbie48]

We are staying in Mainz on our own for a few days. Yesterday srtolling aLong the Rhine bank we saw a Tauck ship docked near two Viking ships which were rafted.  This morning the Tauck ship was gone and two Vikings rafted. Did not note name of any ships.

 

On another note, the KD Rhine ships are not sailing due to the low water. We found out at information shop that the Bingen-Rudesheimer Line is sailing. Tomorrow we will take the round trip Lorelei cruise.  For the two days we have been here weather has been beautiful.  

 

Hope everyone one who is cruising are enjoying themselves.