What does it mean when a ship is ‘sold out’?

[happy traveler69]

What does it mean when a ship is ‘sold out’?

I am asking this in wondering why Carnival couldn’t put those displaced passengers in empty cabins.. it’s just a discussion my daughter and I are having at dinner. We are both students in hospitality and tourism (me graduate level, she undergrad). We are just having a discussion on this.

 

 

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[SadieN]

Means there are no more cabins available to be booked.

Friend had an issue with her Cabin and had to wait several days to get a new Cabin. Turns out there was a Carnival Beard onboard and she got his Cabin when he left midcruise.

Ships have a finite number of cabins. Can’t just call the next ship over and offload pax.

[beachbum53]

What does it mean when a ship is ‘sold out’?

I am asking this in wondering why Carnival couldn’t put those displaced passengers in empty cabins.. it’s just a discussion my daughter and I are having at dinner. We are both students in hospitality and tourism (me graduate level, she undergrad). We are just having a discussion on this.

 

 

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If you're referring to what happened on the Dream, it was reported that 50 cabins were affected by the flooding. When a cruise is "sold out", it means that every cabin has been booked. There may be a possibility, on occasion, when someone makes a last minute cancellation, or there is a "no-show", but a ship wouldn't sail with 50 (or more) empty cabins. There were no empty cabins on the Dream to put displaced passengers in.

[Lottacruises]

Sold out of rooms?

[BEEZALAR]

When we sailed on the dream unfortunately my daughter had an interior room underneath of the gym. All night long she could hear the machines dropping the weights. It was workers that were in there most of the night even though the gym was closed. After three nights with no sleep and lots of complaining to guest services they finally magically found her room. It was a handicapped room and only one person could be in it but she didn't care at that point. So she bid her family goodbye and got herself into her own room.

 

 

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[gatour]

It means ALL of the rooms were sold prior to embarkation. There may be a few last minute no-shows, but there is a reason almost all cruises sail with 104+ percentage occupancy.

 

Hotels will also go into completely 100 booked situation. A couple of years ago I was heading through Orlando for a vacation, when my Audi experienced an issue. Got it towed to the local dealership. They gave me a loaner as they diagnosed the issue went to a local restaurant. Got a call back, that it will take a day or perhaps two to take care of the issue.

 

I figured I will stay in Orlando for a day to see if the can get it back to me. Started to check hotels in the local area, and EVERYTHING was completely booked up. Forgot that it was Bike Weeks in Daytona. No go. I ended up driving back home.

 

So in short, hotels completely book up.

 

I also put my through college working in restaurants, they will also completely book up.

[Micahs Grandad]

Sold out of rooms?

 

happens all the time they do tend to sail full

[cb at sea]

There are many more "berths" than passengers allowed...so a ship can be "sold out" with empty cabins. They try to avoid that, but it happens frequently when there are many 3rd and 4th passengers in cabins. The ship can only carry as many passengers as the LIFEBOATS will hold....theoretically, they can hold many more in the available beds.

 

It's not quite the same in a hotel...they have no "lifeboat" requirements. I used to work in hotels, and we would frequently have OVER 100% occupancy....folks would check out early, and we would clean and resell those rooms. You can't do that on a ship!

[Out of Iowa]

It means ALL of the rooms were sold prior to embarkation. There may be a few last minute no-shows, but there is a reason almost all cruises sail with 104+ percentage occupancy.

 

Hotels will also go into completely 100 booked situation. A couple of years ago I was heading through Orlando for a vacation, when my Audi experienced an issue. Got it towed to the local dealership. They gave me a loaner as they diagnosed the issue went to a local restaurant. Got a call back, that it will take a day or perhaps two to take care of the issue.hips

 

I figured I will stay in Orlando for a day to see if the can get it back to me. Started to check hotels in the local area, and EVERYTHING was completely booked up. Forgot that it was Bike Weeks in Daytona. No go. I ended up driving back home.

 

So in short, hotels completely book up.

 

I also put my through college working in restaurants, they will also completely book up.

 

Please detail your claim that almost all cruises sail with 104+% occupancy.

 

Carnival can't have people showing up at the port without a cabin! Life boat capacity is fixed. Having cabins with a capacity of 3-4 means ships might sail with an empty cabin or two - but selling at 104% occupancy while figuring someone will not arrive at the port? That sounds like an airline overselling. Yes, that happens. Has anyone ever arrived at the port and been turned away with a paid reservation in an assigned cabin? If so, that's downright scary.

[Retired_to_Cruise]

If you're referring to what happened on the Dream, it was reported that 50 cabins were affected by the flooding. When a cruise is "sold out", it means that every cabin has been booked. There may be a possibility, on occasion, when someone makes a last minute cancellation, or there is a "no-show", but a ship wouldn't sail with 50 (or more) empty cabins. There were no empty cabins on the Dream to put displaced passengers in.

 

When a ship is sold out, it does NOT mean that every cabin has been booked. It means that they have booked enough passengers to fill up all the available lifeboat capacity.

[beachbum53]

When a ship is sold out, it does NOT mean that every cabin has been booked. It means that they have booked enough passengers to fill up all the available lifeboat capacity.

 

Well then, if what you say is true, then there must have been some empty cabins on the Dream. If there were, then why weren't some of the passengers displaced by the flood put into those cabins, instead of having to sleep on yoga mats in the spa?

[JenSDCA]

Well then, if what you say is true, then there must have been some empty cabins on the Dream. If there were, then why weren't some of the passengers displaced by the flood put into those cabins, instead of having to sleep on yoga mats in the spa?

Perhaps the cabins were all sold, but some of the ones that could hold 3+ passengers only held 2. That could explain being "sold out" and not having many cabins to offer the displaced guests.

[Fla Senior]

There are two key terms here: Full & Capacity.

Full means that all cabins are taken.

Capacity means that all life boat seats would be full.

The difference happens when the 3+ passenger cabins are at capacity.

[DallasGuy75219]

Please detail your claim that almost all cruises sail with 104+% occupancy.

 

Carnival can't have people showing up at the port without a cabin! Life boat capacity is fixed. Having cabins with a capacity of 3-4 means ships might sail with an empty cabin or two - but selling at 104% occupancy while figuring someone will not arrive at the port? That sounds like an airline overselling. Yes, that happens. Has anyone ever arrived at the port and been turned away with a paid reservation in an assigned cabin? If so, that's downright scary.

 

That 104+% is actual passengers on board divided by double berth capacity (i.e., capacity at two passengers to a room). Some of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th passengers in cabins will offset passengers traveling by themselves, but on the whole 4+ out of every 104+ passengers is booked in a 3rd, 4th, or 5th berth.

 

 

There is enough lifeboat capacity for more than 100% (double berth) passenger occupancy. So a cruise can be sold out because all cabins are booked. Less likely, during times when 3rd, 4th, and 5th berth occupancy is high (e.g., when kids are out of school), a sailing can also be sold out with cabins still open because lifeboat capacity is maxed out with 3rd, 4th, and 5th occupants.

 

Given that most kids are still in school and there likely weren't a lot of 3rd/4th/5th berth occupants, this Dream cruise was probably sold out with all cabins booked.

[Pops, Esq.]

Well then, if what you say is true, then there must have been some empty cabins on the Dream. If there were, then why weren't some of the passengers displaced by the flood put into those cabins, instead of having to sleep on yoga mats in the spa?

 

 

 

Who said that some passengers were not put into other cabins? Yes, reports are that the displaced passengers are on yoga mats in the gym, but I have seen no reports confirming ALL 50 affected cabins were in the gym.

 

 

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[skiingj]

My wife has worked in the travel industry for three decades. She has been a TA and up to Executive Director of Sales for well known companies. The cruise industry is known to have the best yields in the business. The hotel industry would love to have similar yields.

[NotThePest_Too]

What does it mean when a ship is ‘sold out’?

I am asking this in wondering why Carnival couldn’t put those displaced passengers in empty cabins.. it’s just a discussion my daughter and I are having at dinner. We are both students in hospitality and tourism (me graduate level, she undergrad). We are just having a discussion on this.

 

 

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Your questions are bringing me back to some of my college classes. Are you thinking about capacity as a function of Max. Net Revenue? I'm remembering that financially it is never a good idea or fiscally responsible to be at 100% capacity as the expenses to maintain that capacity have a negative effect on revenue? Correct me or school me if I'm way off base.

 

Ramona

[happy traveler69]

There are many more "berths" than passengers allowed...so a ship can be "sold out" with empty cabins. They try to avoid that, but it happens frequently when there are many 3rd and 4th passengers in cabins. The ship can only carry as many passengers as the LIFEBOATS will hold....theoretically, they can hold many more in the available beds.

 

It's not quite the same in a hotel...they have no "lifeboat" requirements. I used to work in hotels, and we would frequently have OVER 100% occupancy....folks would check out early, and we would clean and resell those rooms. You can't do that on a ship!

 

 

 

Yes, this answers the question that was in my head when I asked it.

Yes, in general sold out means sold out. In travel and tourism, hotels and cruise ships like to be at somewhere around 80% capacity to make money (certainly not to lose any). But I am not certain what total sell out means. This is about as close of an answer that makes sense

 

 

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[DallasGuy75219]

Are you thinking about capacity as a function of Max. Net Revenue? I'm remembering that financially it is never a good idea or fiscally responsible to be at 100% capacity as the expenses to maintain that capacity have a negative effect on revenue?

 

Ramona

 

Not speaking to expenses, but from a revenue standpoint being at 100% capacity means you probably left some revenue on the table because there were probably willing consumers who would have bought at a higher price than you sold to others but couldn't because you had already sold that capacity to others at that lower price.

 

The dynamics are slightly different in the cruise industry due to all the other revenue streams and upsells (e.g., casino, drinks, gift shops, spa....) in addition to the basic cruise fare once a passenger is booked and onboard.

 

 

Some cruise lines previously would do anything to sail with all cabins booked, including last minute fire-sale prices, hoping to make up those discounts with the other revenue streams, But recently most have backed away from this and moved to better discounts for early (rather than last-minute) bookings in order to stop incentivizing passengers to wait until the last minute to book and in turn increase the perceived value of the product.

[ober134]

Sold Out: Means maximum number of passengers, which may or may not equal all cabins booked. They can only book the number of passengers that can fit into safety boat/lifeboats. So, if there are many cabins with families (4-5 ppl per cabin or suite).... that reach max ppl on board, there may actually be empty cabins, but it will be "sold out". It's all about the lifeboat capacity.

[NotThePest_Too]

Some cruise lines previously would do anything to sail with all cabins booked, including last minute fire-sale prices, hoping to make up those discounts with the other revenue streams, But recently most have backed away from this and moved to better discounts for early (rather than last-minute) bookings in order to stop incentivizing passengers to wait until the last minute to book and in turn increase the perceived value of the product.

 

 

Thank you for this explanation. I'm new to cruising my upcoming cruise (Feb 2nd) will be my second one. My first was done through a group and I only went by the price for the group sailing. This upcoming was because of my own shopping around.

 

Ramona

 

Ramona

[happy traveler69]

Your questions are bringing me back to some of my college classes. Are you thinking about capacity as a function of Max. Net Revenue? I'm remembering that financially it is never a good idea or fiscally responsible to be at 100% capacity as the expenses to maintain that capacity have a negative effect on revenue? Correct me or school me if I'm way off base.

 

 

 

Ramona

 

 

 

You lost me a bit!! I’m still reeling from P-hats and R squared regressions from stats class!! Lol lol!!

We still are kinda lost as to why there weren’t 50 cabins open on that ship.

 

 

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[NotThePest_Too]

You lost me a bit!! I’m still reeling from P-hats and R squared regressions from stats class!! Lol lol!!

We still are kinda lost as to why there weren’t 50 cabins open on that ship.

 

 

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LOL - The thought behind a "break-point" is the thought that there is a point that if you make one dollar more in revenue, that expense to earn that revenue will cost you more than the revenue you just earned. If the ship was at full capacity then when the pipes burst they could not shift all or some of the people involved to new cabins because there was no space. The cost to acquire revenue for the original sale now has an additional reimbursement (Fixed cost), 50% discount on a future cruise (that's variable because not everyone will use it) the cost to fly people home early (differential, the extra expense to change flight/travel plans), and for those really upset, loss of goodwill. Negative publicity, thoughts, etc. are harder to overcome. Insurance will pick up this short term, but there is a long term effect of higher premiums.

 

Ramona

[chengkp75]

You lost me a bit!! I’m still reeling from P-hats and R squared regressions from stats class!! Lol lol!!

We still are kinda lost as to why there weren’t 50 cabins open on that ship.

 

 

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The reason there weren't 50 open cabins is that a cruise ship is different than a hotel. At a hotel, you have people checking in and out daily, while the ship only has one day of check in, so there is no daily fluctuation in cabin availability. Because the ship only gets one chance to fill the cabins for the week, they will sell every single cabin, if at all possible. As others have noted, there are two types of "capacity" for cruise ships, "nominal" capacity (2 persons per cabin) and "maximum" capacity (the total number of passengers limited by lifeboat capacity). Also, as noted, there are many more "berths" or beds than even the maximum capacity, as this allows those who wish to book 3 or more in a cabin to be able to choose different categories of cabin. The term "sold out" as applied to cruise ships has two meanings, as stated before: one, all cabins are occupied, but the ship may or may not be at full capacity, and two, the ship is at full capacity, but maybe not all cabins are occupied. In the first case, there would not be any cabins available to move people, unless you plan on moving strangers into cabins with others, and in the second case, there would have been cabins available, but perhaps not enough. As others have said, in times when demand for 3rd/4th passenger booking is high, the cruise line will impose a block on further 3rd/4th guest bookings when they start to reach the point where the ship would be at maximum capacity if all cabins were booked. This is to force people to book two cabins rather than 3rd/4th in a cabin, as the line makes more money on 1st/2nd guests.

 

Don't know about hotels, but in the cruise industry, the goal is to sail every cruise at 105% capacity (nominal) or better.

[gatour]

For hotels, I have heard figures of between 60-70% occupancy. Of course this an average over time.