en Encore

[Mr Luxury]

My recent Encore trip has given me a good insight into what the differences are and what I would suggest needs tweaking.

The deck space is smaller and really only affects sea days.

Deck ten aft behind the gym has twelve loungers and two double cabanas.

There were only the two of us that used this space and also the other space that was quiet was the sun terrace on deck twelve.

The retreat needs to become open deck space for all guests and perhaps table tennis and deck quoits could be reinstated.

The club on the Encore is poorly designed with a bar that is way too small and a Casino that is too big.

The TK Grill is of course much bigger and works well enabling more flexibility to give guests more than just one meal there.

The TK Bar is certainly a lovely place for a drink pre or after dinner as is the much larger Observation bar.

I understand that the bar in the club on the Ovation is better

The restaurant was a disaster and could not cope at full capacity

We dined there only once with the Hotel Director and we of course had good service but when we tried to dine there on another evening it was not good and we walked out and ate at the excellent TK Grill which was perfect every time.

The dining room on the smaller ships seems to work much better

I did try Sushi for lunch but it did not seem like a great venue for a relaxed dinner but the dinner menu should be offered at lunch as lunch is a bento box and no sashimi or Nigiri is offered

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Edited August 26, 2018 by Mr Luxury

[Isklaar]

My recent Encore trip has given me a good insight into what the differences are and what I would suggest needs tweaking.

The deck space is smaller and really only affects sea days.

Deck ten aft behind the gym has twelve loungers and two double cabanas.

There were only the two of us that used this space and also the other space that was quiet was the sun terrace on deck twelve.

The retreat needs to become open deck space for all guests and perhaps table tennis and deck quoits could be reinstated.

The club on the Encore is poorly designed with a bar that is way too small and a Casino that is too big.

The TK Grill is of course much bigger and works well enabling more flexibility to give guests more than just one meal there.

The TK Bar is certainly a lovely place for a drink pre or after dinner as is the much larger Observation bar.

I understand that the bar in the club on the Ovation is better

The restaurant was a disaster and could not cope at full capacity

We dined there only once with the Hotel Director and we of course had good service but when we tried to dine there on another evening it was not good and we walked out and ate at the excellent TK Grill which was perfect every time.

The dining room on the smaller ships seems to work much better

I did try Sushi for lunch but it did not seem like a great venue for a relaxed dinner but the dinner menu should be offered at lunch as lunch is a bento box and no sashimi or Nigiri is offered

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

 

Very interesting summary Mr L, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's disappointing in particular to read that the restaurant didn't work well on your cruise as it does look like an attractive space, perhaps nicer than on the smaller ships.

[Mr Luxury]

It is a lovely room and light but alas a no go for me

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[JPH814]

We've just left Rome, after a super ship-organised excursion which was long but lovely; to darker seas than we've had yet. Tomorrow's tender port has been cancelled and replaced with a return visit to Ajaccio. That's a fairly protected port and a dock not a tender so if the winds are getting up, makes sense. Looking at the pressure charts I can't quite see where the weather is coming from but if the forecasts are for nasty I'm happy to be out of it.

 

500/600 turned around today so we have to form a new trivia group tomorrow. Things have picked up a lot since the first day, I'd still say we prefer the O class, it really is a perfect size. Seabourn almost makes it work on this size ship but they've not quite got the kinks out yet. I'll write a proper review when we're home in a week.

 

We were certainly very happy not to be amongst the group going home today, and it was quite fun to be cocooned in our usual spot on the couches on the pool deck when everyone returned from lifeboat drill.

 

 

 

May I ask: what port did you miss?

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Bestie098]

Thank you Mr L. Agreed on all counts.

Our lunch hostess at sushi Was happy to take a nigiri request. They do maki so all I did was ask nicely.

[rols]

Agree with most of the very fair comments by Mr Luxury. We haven’t walked out of the MDR yet but we darned nearly did. The service there has been haphazard at best, for instance I’m used to having my plate cleared as soon as I’ve finished, many times it’s sat there until just before the next course. Small things but important and there have been quite a few small things. I don’t blame the staff, they are working as hard as ever, there just aren’t enough of them nor enough organization to deal with 150 extra passengers. As I said in the first post, our meal on embarkation night was very poor. Food’s been better since.

 

Sushi is actually pretty good for dinner. We dined there with a couple we met and it was relaxed and well paced.

 

Food at TK has been consistently the best however portions are large and we have to pace ourselves. Turning up at 6pm and asking about slots for that night has been the best plan.

 

Will write more after we return. We’re still having a lovely time and the weather has been lovely. Jeffrey Archer is giving another talk later and the auditorium will likely be bursting again as he’s an excellent speaker. If I had room I’d have another Napa burger but if I do I’ll not fit into the plane seat on the way home.

[Sunday golf]

Interesting comments on the Encore. We were on board Barcelona to Monte Carlo. Thought the staff overall were the best we have had on Seabourn. People like Sean the bars Manager and all of them round the pool deck were outstanding sometimes in quite difficult circumstances as the pool deck on both sea days and otherwise could hardly cope. Our cruise did have unbelievably high temperatures coupled with school holidays which increased the pressure. We however found the Restaurant overall excellent, both food and service. Enjoyed one evening too in the company of Bozi the Hotel Manager which was very special. Had two meals in TK one excellent, the second not so good. Felt that TK is a total meal experience. If one aspect fails then the overall feel is not so good. One evening the Restaurant staff seemed rather rushed and the overall evening was somewhat spoiled. Enjoyed meals in the Colonnade and generally the offering was most enjoyable. One poor night was the Clam Bake, which left a lot to be desired. Only eat in the Patio Grill some lunch times. Adequate but little else, although again the staff were excellent.Thought the entertainment too was a notch higher than previous cruises, especially the singers and dancers. Either than the pool area our main concern was the housekeeping. Often did not get our room serviced till mid afternoon and in the evening 10 to 10.30 was not uncommon.

Would agree the Retreat is a total waste of space especially as the other open air spaces were so under pressure.

We are great Seabourn fans but would not go on the Encore again unless there was some rethink on the Retreat issue. Will be back on the smaller ships and can’t wait for the new ones to be built.

[Joolsverne]

Sunday Golf, we are of the same view. The MDR experience on Encore was like eating dinner in a football stadium. The Patio Grill was very poor - both in the selection offered and in its execution. We will not be rushing back, but are happy that others - including some good friends - find Encore to their liking. Fortunately not everyone enjoys the same things.

 

Like you, we are all extremely excited about the new ‘O’ class ships in the pipeline - at last. Can’t wait!

[rols]

 

Like you, we are all extremely excited about the new ‘O’ class ships in the pipeline - at last. Can’t wait!

 

I thought the two new ships announced were not 'O' class but expedition ships with about 1/2 the capacity of the 'O' class. Or was there another announcement while we were away?

 

I'm happy to see them building some smaller ships, but if they're just for the expedition itineraries, don't know as we'll end up sailing them.

[markham]

I am a bit late on this but would like to agree with every comment Mr Luxury made about Encore a few days ago.

 

My only suggestion to Seabourn was and is that they reduce capacity on these 2 larger ships so that the MDR, pool and outdoor areas, and Club can cope with the additional 150 passengers they are trying to pack into a ship that is pretty much the same size as the Odyssey class ships except for having one additional deck. That is why I proposed a reduced single supplement; the ship would sell all its cabins but not at full capacity- until the desired number is met.

 

I hope no one tries to lecture that Seabourn needs to fill the ship with the number of passengers they have already chosen and that "we need to move into the 21st century or they'll raise prices" or some such thing. If Seabourn protects and enhances the brand they can maintain their market at the right price levels, whatever that may be,

according to that demand.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[Able Seaman H]

I'm afraid you can't have fewer passengers and not increase fares. Its called protecting the brand.

 

It's like me saying we should be able to book Christmas / New Year cruises at the same price as low demand off peak prices.

 

The Retreat area can change as it is essentially wasted space at the moment but to service the ship and facilities without raising prices numbers will have to remain I'm afraid.

 

Similarly with single supliments the real estate is priced in $ / sq ft of cabin space. I would love to pay just a 10% surcharge every time I book a second cabin for our daughter but it doesn't work like that. There IS a little saving in that she can only eat or drink 1 person's amount (in her case actually 1/3rd of a person's amount :) ), but in the scheme of things that amounts to a rounding error, it's the $ / sq ft formula that matters.

 

Fortunately there is a solution if Encore & Ovation don't work for you, the Odyssey class ships.

 

Henry :)

[rols]

Agree with most of the very fair comments by Mr Luxury. We haven’t walked out of the MDR yet but we darned nearly did. The service there has been haphazard at best, for instance I’m used to having my plate cleared as soon as I’ve finished, many times it’s sat there until just before the next course. Small things but important and there have been quite a few small things. I don’t blame the staff, they are working as hard as ever, there just aren’t enough of them nor enough organization to deal with 150 extra passengers. As I said in the first post, our meal on embarkation night was very poor. Food’s been better since.

 

Sushi is actually pretty good for dinner. We dined there with a couple we met and it was relaxed and well paced.

 

Food at TK has been consistently the best however portions are large and we have to pace ourselves. Turning up at 6pm and asking about slots for that night has been the best plan.

 

Will write more after we return. We’re still having a lovely time and the weather has been lovely. Jeffrey Archer is giving another talk later and the auditorium will likely be bursting again as he’s an excellent speaker. If I had room I’d have another Napa burger but if I do I’ll not fit into the plane seat on the way home.

 

.. and we're home after an exhausting 29 hours sitting on planes and in lounges. I just filled in the post cruise questionnaire while things were fresh in my mind. I'll submit a proper cruise critic review in a few days but to finish off this thread ..

 

We enjoyed the last two weeks, found a routine that worked, found some staff we really liked and had a good break. These two weeks were back-to-back 7 days in the middle of summer with the ship absolutely full and 80% of the guests changing in the middle so it was going to be challenging for the staff.

 

We always felt that when Seabourn built the O class they nicely scaled up everything good about the original ships, including the service, and added a lot of nice features. With the Encore class we both felt that they've added passengers at the expense of the experience and service level. There weren't enough staff in most locations which meant the ones there were were run ragged. Feeding an extra 150 people seemed to make the quality and presentation of the food very hit and miss, and some of the misses were bad misses. The exception to that was TK grill which was consistently good, portions there were on the heavy side.

 

The MDR was a zoo, it just didn't cope at busy times. Colonnade service was generally quite good and we had a few evening meals there. The lunchtime buffets never really appealed, can't put a finger on why, somehow the size and presentation made us feel more like we were on Celebrity. Room service was constantly 30 minutes late no matter how in advance you ordered it. Several times, in all locations, things were ordered and forgotten and had to be requested again, that really showed how stretched the staff were more than anything.

 

The pool deck isn't large enough and there's not enough shady spots. When it was hot and the buffet was open early afternoon it was very crowded. As Mr Luxury points out there's lots of other places to sit and they were often empty; my opinion is that's because most of them were full sun and no bar/food service. I can't even imagine how crowded it would be on a sea day as we had none. We've discussed the Retreat often enough here, I won't add any more, I've put my comments in the Seabourn survey.

 

We had a marina day, that was fun and well organised. The cruise director and staff were good and kept things moving in general. The assistant CD (Beth) left at the end of our cruise, her replacement had a somewhat nervy first week (they overlapped) and some people at trivia had difficulty understanding him; he seems like a nice chap and hopefully will settle in. Shows were very watchable, as good as a small cast on a small ship is likely to do. We had two entertainers we'd seen before on Seabourn, Steve Stevens a comedian and Mark (?) the mentalist and we were happy to see them again, they're very good. Jeffrey Archer's lectures were great, we were lucky to have him on board.

 

We must have been lucky with our room stewardess who was the best ever. Most of the staff were of the usual Seabourn high standard, a few were new and needed a bit more training, a couple were just clueless, but only a couple. The ship just needed 15% more staff than it had everywhere.

 

Overall we felt Seabourn have gone too far with the E class and dropped a notch on the outstanding quality we've always experienced on the Odysseys and we'll prefer the O class for upcoming cruises. We'd sail on the bigger ships again but only on itineraries which were discounted compared to those on the Os or which looked like they were going to be sailing at 75% capacity or less.

[Able Seaman H]

Thanks for that rols, fair and balanced.

 

Henry :)

[Mr Luxury]

Thanks rols

All good and fair observations.

I would try the Ovation to see if there are a few differences but would be very careful on the itinerary but ultimately the O class ships work much better for Seabourn sailors.

So Ritz Carlton and Scenic are on my radar,anyone else?

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Forums mobile app

[Able Seaman H]

Yes, both offer an interesting proposition.

 

Ritz Carlton is a known brand and the words, "helicopter hangers" surely trumps "golf putting green" on Scenic.

 

Henry :)

[markham]

Protecting the brand is first and foremost ensuring that the established brand’s satisfaction levels are maintained. You don’t do that when you add 150 people in a ship like Encore with one more deck and no other size increases eg in length relative to the 3 Odyssey class ships that have defined the brand. What you don’t want is people complaining the MDR, pool area, Club etc are not fit for the size:number ratio and respond to them with a “so take it or leave it.”

 

That’s why you reduce numbers of passengers somewhat. To protect the reputation of Seabourn as a luxury line with generous ie more than adequate space for all. As on the Odyssey class ships.

 

You want 2 brands? That’s what you get in practice when past passengers differentiate the Ody class ships from Encore in this way. No, the brand is the brand. No one likes to be fooled at these prices. This was all predictable and remedies are available eg drop Encore’s capacity by 50 or whatever relieves the bad reviews. I doubt Seabourn will suffer greatly; they already get economies from the higher passenger to crew ratio. As an aside, I am curious why anyone thinks he knows better, if he understands the importance of protecting the brand.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[Able Seaman H]

I understand what you are saying but my "protecting the brand" was from bankrupting its self. It's no good offering the best service in the world if you lose money on every passenger or just cover cost.

 

Mr L mentioned a couple of other cruise lines one of whom is Ritz Carlton due to enter service in around 2020 from memory. Like several other brands they promise luxury but like most of those others it comes at a price.

 

A cruise with the Ritz Carlton group looks likely cost almost twice as much as Seabourn and for a simple country boy like me that is significant.

 

Possibly I'm a bit more forgiving than some on here or maybe Seabourn is all I can afford so I have to make the best of a job. Either way there are currently 2 ship sizes to choose from. If that means non equal service levels so be it but I can work around any shortfalls on the larger ships and they do offer a few things the smaller ones don't.

 

Our last cruise was on Sojourn and I was worried it would play second fiddle to our previous Encore cruise but it didn't. We really enjoyed ourselves. Similarly I'm looking at Ovation this Christmas so I'm happy at either size. If we have to do a bit of wriggling to make the ship fit our needs then so be it but in reality there is nothing which is a deal breaker.

 

As essentially a tee totaller I do have a challenge on our next cruise. I'm going to try and get Bai soft drinks on board. I've never asked for anything "off piste" before so we shall see what happens. If it works I will be suitably impressed, if it doesn't we will still have a great time in South Eastman Asia again :)

 

Henry :)

[Isklaar]

Thank you Rols for your balanced review.

I'm boarding Ovation in Singapore in December for the Christmas cruise. The Holiday cruises are almost always completely sold out. The weather will be hot for most of the cruise, although likely to cool down as we get nearer to Hong Kong. Little shade and a crowded pool deck will likely be a dealbreaker for me.

Very disappointing to read about the letdowns in MDR, other posters report the same.

 

I'll try to keep an open mind for my cruise. I've taken this same itinerary previously so will probably be spending quite a bit of time on the ship.

[Isklaar]

Henry, I've just read your post where you mentioned being on Ovation at Christmas this year. I'll make a point to introduce myself this year. I did enjoy your talk on Sojourn last year.

[Les Picantins]

I am a bit late on this but would like to agree with every comment Mr Luxury made about Encore a few days ago.

 

My only suggestion to Seabourn was and is that they reduce capacity on these 2 larger ships so that the MDR, pool and outdoor areas, and Club can cope with the additional 150 passengers they are trying to pack into a ship that is pretty much the same size as the Odyssey class ships except for having one additional deck. That is why I proposed a reduced single supplement; the ship would sell all its cabins but not at full capacity- until the desired number is met.

 

I hope no one tries to lecture that Seabourn needs to fill the ship with the number of passengers they have already chosen and that "we need to move into the 21st century or they'll raise prices" or some such thing. If Seabourn protects and enhances the brand they can maintain their market at the right price levels, whatever that may be,

according to that demand.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

For the third time I am posting that I think this is an excellent idea. For some reason the other 2 times I did so, the posts disappeared.

[Les Picantins]

.. and we're home after an exhausting 29 hours sitting on planes and in lounges. I just filled in the post cruise questionnaire while things were fresh in my mind. I'll submit a proper cruise critic review in a few days but to finish off this thread ..

 

We enjoyed the last two weeks, found a routine that worked, found some staff we really liked and had a good break. These two weeks were back-to-back 7 days in the middle of summer with the ship absolutely full and 80% of the guests changing in the middle so it was going to be challenging for the staff.

 

We always felt that when Seabourn built the O class they nicely scaled up everything good about the original ships, including the service, and added a lot of nice features. With the Encore class we both felt that they've added passengers at the expense of the experience and service level. There weren't enough staff in most locations which meant the ones there were were run ragged. Feeding an extra 150 people seemed to make the quality and presentation of the food very hit and miss, and some of the misses were bad misses. The exception to that was TK grill which was consistently good, portions there were on the heavy side.

 

The MDR was a zoo, it just didn't cope at busy times. Colonnade service was generally quite good and we had a few evening meals there. The lunchtime buffets never really appealed, can't put a finger on why, somehow the size and presentation made us feel more like we were on Celebrity. Room service was constantly 30 minutes late no matter how in advance you ordered it. Several times, in all locations, things were ordered and forgotten and had to be requested again, that really showed how stretched the staff were more than anything.

 

The pool deck isn't large enough and there's not enough shady spots. When it was hot and the buffet was open early afternoon it was very crowded. As Mr Luxury points out there's lots of other places to sit and they were often empty; my opinion is that's because most of them were full sun and no bar/food service. I can't even imagine how crowded it would be on a sea day as we had none. We've discussed the Retreat often enough here, I won't add any more, I've put my comments in the Seabourn survey.

 

We had a marina day, that was fun and well organised. The cruise director and staff were good and kept things moving in general. The assistant CD (Beth) left at the end of our cruise, her replacement had a somewhat nervy first week (they overlapped) and some people at trivia had difficulty understanding him; he seems like a nice chap and hopefully will settle in. Shows were very watchable, as good as a small cast on a small ship is likely to do. We had two entertainers we'd seen before on Seabourn, Steve Stevens a comedian and Mark (?) the mentalist and we were happy to see them again, they're very good. Jeffrey Archer's lectures were great, we were lucky to have him on board.

 

We must have been lucky with our room stewardess who was the best ever. Most of the staff were of the usual Seabourn high standard, a few were new and needed a bit more training, a couple were just clueless, but only a couple. The ship just needed 15% more staff than it had everywhere.

 

Overall we felt Seabourn have gone too far with the E class and dropped a notch on the outstanding quality we've always experienced on the Odysseys and we'll prefer the O class for upcoming cruises. We'd sail on the bigger ships again but only on itineraries which were discounted compared to those on the Os or which looked like they were going to be sailing at 75% capacity or less.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share all of this information. Had my only cruise on the Encore been this last one in July, I would agree. However, I was on the Encore last year at the same time with a similar itinerary and weather conditions and it was a totally different experience. With the exception of an incredibly long tender wait due to a late scheduled arrival in Amalfi, my Encore 2017 cruise was as close to perfect as one could be and I was looking forward to having a comparable cruise. Unfortunately, this was not the case.

 

These E class ships can work if they figure out the glitches and if the chemistry is right on the hospitality end. Is the ship understaffed because they haven't been able to replace crew, or have they cut costs and eliminated staff? I did hear from a crew member that 7 of his colleagues had quit the ship unexpectedly just before we boarded....

[Mr Luxury]

Crew are indeed being worked extremely hard on the Encore and it shows in certain areas but not all.

TK Grill is running exceptionally well but the MDR,pool area and sky bar are not.

My concern is that with all these new ships being built,how is the industry going to find new talent especially in the luxury and expedition sector.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Isklaar]

Crew are indeed being worked extremely hard on the Encore and it shows in certain areas but not all.

TK Grill is running exceptionally well but the MDR,pool area and sky bar are not.

My concern is that with all these new ships being built,how is the industry going to find new talent especially in the luxury and expedition sector.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Disappointing to read that sky bar isn't running too well either - it's definitely one of my favourite daytime spots on the ship.

[Able Seaman H]

Henry, I've just read your post where you mentioned being on Ovation at Christmas this year. I'll make a point to introduce myself this year. I did enjoy your talk on Sojourn last year.

 

If we end up booking I shall make a point of letting people know / giving them fair warning to change their plans.

 

If will be the first time we will have cruised Seabourn without a child as Emily would be 18 !!

 

Henry :)

[SLSD]

As I have said before on this board, we have sailed on both the Encore and the Ovation and have not suffered for it. While there was a bit of waiter chaos for a very few meals in the MDR in June on the Ovation, our service was perfect on the Encore last September. We never found ourselves waiting to be served anywhere on either ship. We never felt crowded either. We are not lounge by the pool people, but did avail ourselves of the Patio Grill regularly.

 

We are getting ready to book a trip on the Sojourn and finally, I will be able, after that cruise, to come back with a comparison of the smaller ship to the two larger ones!