Tipping

[kazu]

12 minutes ago, Stratheden said:

This is the HAL crew manual that I have previously posted - I have only posted the cover and relevant tipping page.   Can we please just stop arguing about it and enjoy our cruising. 

 

 

Thank you since no one's word was good enough.

 

this makes the point perfectly 🙂 

[RocketMan275]

Just now, kazu said:

 

Thank you since no one's word was good enough.

 

this makes the point perfectly 🙂 

Well, the point has been made several times in the past.  

Some will accept that the point has been made.

Others will not and claim that isn't the 'real' policy because it isn't the policy that they want.

[DocJohnB]

15 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Well, the point has been made several times in the past.  

Some will accept that the point has been made.

Others will not and claim that isn't the 'real' policy because it isn't the policy that they want.

I will (and do) accept the point, now that I have seen it with my own eyes.  I thank Stratheden for posting it.

However this does not change my point that the policy lends itself to rewarding poor service the same as excellent/outstanding service.  Can you see/accept that point?

[Copper10-8]

'Tis what it is 

[taxmantoo]

35 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

'Tis what it is 

Que sera sera 😉

[Copper10-8]

5 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

Que sera sera 😉

 

Whatever will be, will be...........

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, DocJohnB said:

I will (and do) accept the point, now that I have seen it with my own eyes.  I thank Stratheden for posting it.

However this does not change my point that the policy lends itself to rewarding poor service the same as excellent/outstanding service.  Can you see/accept that point?

I can certainly see that it might do both.  Do you have an idea that would accomplish both objectives, penalize poor and reward excellent?

 

[DocJohnB]

29 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Do you have an idea that would accomplish both objectives, penalize poor and reward excellent?

 

Not really!  And that is unfortunate.  I believe that if I complain about a problem I should be able to provide a reasonable alternative.

 

I can only continue to do as I have in the past.  If I believe the service goes above and beyond, I personally will give the provider an extra gratuity over and above the HSC.  If the service is less than expected or simply average I give only the HSC and will write an unfavorable response on the post-cruise survey.  If the service is really below standards, I will talk to a supervisor on the spot.

 

Having said that, I have only been on 5 HAL cruises since I started back with them in 2014 (my 6th will be next week).  I have NEVER written a negative report, talked about a problem with a supervisor or not given extra gratuities.  The service has always far exceeded my expectations.  So, on HAL, one could say my "problem" with pooling tips is a moot point.  It isn't however on other cruise lines.

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by DocJohnB

[PeetNL]

Do not be surprised that there are non US passengers on board who understand little of this discussion. I will explain this for more mutual understanding between us fellow passengers.

I live in the Netherlands and am not accustomed to the US way of tipping and the way foreign companies pay their employees. We give tips in the Netherlands when the service is exceptionally good, but as a rule no more than 10% (the bill is always inclusive of service and the employer pays a fair salary to the employees).

I am not concerned about which system is better, but it simply feels somewhat unusual for me. Probably because the ship is registered in the Netherlands, but has a US owner who probably uses US employment contracts.

But of course I adapt to the ship where I am a guest: I always leave the HSC in place, because it seems to me the right way (just an opinion).

 

 

[RocketMan275]

57 minutes ago, DocJohnB said:

 

Not really!  And that is unfortunate.  I believe that if I complain about a problem I should be able to provide a reasonable alternative.

 

I can only continue to do as I have in the past.  If I believe the service goes above and beyond, I personally will give the provider an extra gratuity over and above the HSC.  If the service is less than expected or simply average I give only the HSC and will write an unfavorable response on the post-cruise survey.  If the service is really below standards, I will talk to a supervisor on the spot.

 

Having said that, I have only been on 5 HAL cruises since I started back with them in 2014 (my 6th will be next week).  I have NEVER written a negative report, talked about a problem with a supervisor or not given extra gratuities.  The service has always far exceeded my expectations.  So, on HAL, one could say my "problem" with pooling tips is a moot point.  It isn't however on other cruise lines.

 

That seems fair.   One other thing.  Where tips are pooled, members of the pool have been known to become involved when sub-standard service occurs since it can affect the size of the pool and all suffer.  I have also heard that crew members value the reports as nearly as much as they do extra tips.   Along those lines (and no, I can't document this) but it has been reported here on CC that the distribution of the pool varies.   Longevity and job descriptions obviously play a part.   These same reports have stated that those with high marks on the reports get a larger slice while those with negative comments are penalized.  If true, that should satisfy your concerns.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 10/21/2018 at 12:02 PM, RocketMan275 said:

One thing missing from this discussion is the crew's preferences.  Recently, the District of Columbia moved to eliminate the 'tipped minimum wage' that allowed enterprises to pay a lesser minimum wage to those in the service industry that received tips to supplement their wages.  The district voted to eliminate this provision.  The DC council voted to over rule this vote because of the strenuous objection of the workers.  

 

Has anyone stopped to think that the crew might prefer a system where tipping is a major portion of their compensation?

Particularly crew from places that tax wages, but not gratuities.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 10/21/2018 at 2:15 PM, RocketMan275 said:

Excellent point.  But that only proves that those who want to remove the tips because of a desire to force the cruise lines to pay a 'living wage' aren't doing the crew any favors.

 

Besides if anyone thinks the crew is 'overpaid' they can always seek employment as a room steward or waiter on a cruise ship.  I'm sure they'll enjoy dealing with the 'public' as much as the current crew does.

It is like the recent announcement from Amazon that they have instituted a company-wide minimum wage of $15 per hour.  But they also adjusted their bonus and stock plans.  Some employees come out better, some worse.

I personally do not believe that anyone who takes off the auto-grats is doing it out of a desire to do anything but save themselves money at the expense of folks way down from them on the global ladder.  They will make silly excuses, but I believe that in their heart of hearts they are just cheap.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:46 PM, ChinaShrek said:

It is well known that most servers and bartenders do not claim all of their tips on their taxes.  If people give cash to cruise ship employees, it doubtful that they will claim all of this "cash" on their taxes. 

In my experience, people that assume everyone is dishonest are the dishonest ones.

[KroozNut]

2 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I personally do not believe that anyone who takes off the auto-grats is doing it out of a desire to do anything but save themselves money at the expense of folks way down from them on the global ladder.  They will make silly excuses, but I believe that in their heart of hearts they are just cheap.

 

"This is the HAL crew manual that I have previously posted - I have only posted the cover and relevant tipping page.   Can we please just stop arguing about it and enjoy our cruising."

 

Apparently not..

 

[RocketMan275]

13 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Particularly crew from places that tax wages, but not gratuities.

Actually, wait staff in the District Of Columbia opposed raising wages to levels doing away with tips.  Last I heard DC taxes both.

[Toofarfromthesea]

7 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

 

"This is the HAL crew manual that I have previously posted - I have only posted the cover and relevant tipping page.   Can we please just stop arguing about it and enjoy our cruising."

 

Apparently not..

 

Always hilarious when someone complains about extending a thread by . . . . extending the thread.

[Toofarfromthesea]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Actually, wait staff in the District Of Columbia opposed raising wages to levels doing away with tips.  Last I heard DC taxes both.

Yes, but your final paragraph referenced 'crew' in general, i.e., ship crew.  Which has nothing to do with DC's tax policies - except for the rare crew member who LIVES in DC. 

[JeffElizabeth]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 7:07 AM, Moriah said:

Sitting here thinking about this some more ...so bartenders can see I'm not on the list.. but... I like to give tips to the guys who are incessantly shining things!! On HAL ships in particular, every morning I'm up early and as I walk through the ship every brass and metal thing is being polished and every carpet is being vacuumed... even later in the day as I use the stairs, there is always someone shining away... I often thank them for making the ship so beautiful and if I see the same person more than once I'll often give them a tip as well.  It just makes me feel good to appreciate their work.  Now, these people do NOT (for sure) know my name so would not know where to look on the list to make sure I've left my gratuities in place - I hope they get to keep their tips?

Good for you! I bet these employees just beam when they are acknowledged for their hard work. Most passengers just ignore them. 

[Dunelm]

If folk can afford it, generosity always wins!

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Yes, but your final paragraph referenced 'crew' in general, i.e., ship crew.  Which has nothing to do with DC's tax policies - except for the rare crew member who LIVES in DC. 

 

 

Your original comment: "Particularly crew from places that tax wages, but not gratuities." implied that only those from places that do not tax gratuities prefer tipping.  I was pointing out that there are other reasons besides tax avoidance for waitstaff to support tipping even in areas where tips are taxable income.

[HamOp]

An interesting read from Cruise Critic editor re tipping.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=298

[Copper10-8]

The bug is alive and well 

[HamOp]

4 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

The bug is alive and well 

May he always be.....

[Toofarfromthesea]

22 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

 

Your original comment: "Particularly crew from places that tax wages, but not gratuities." implied that only those from places that do not tax gratuities prefer tipping.  I was pointing out that there are other reasons besides tax avoidance for waitstaff to support tipping even in areas where tips are taxable income.

I think we are essentially in violent agreement.  😉

[JeffElizabeth]

I just know that the wife and I are very blessed and I don't mind sharing a little of our cash with those who are providing us top service. Especially when those few dollars buy so much more back in their homes like the Philippines and Indonesia.