Naughty P&O!

[Wiltonian]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/26/cruise-ship-captain-fined-100000-for-using-dirty-fuel

 

[jeanlyon]

That is disgusting, just imagine all the other lines doing the same thing. 😞

Edited November 26, 2018 by jeanlyon

[kentchris]

To be fair, Carnival have had exhaust gas scrubbers fitted to at least 60 of their ships and say they're on course to complete the fleet in 2020. That's when a lower level of permitted sulphur will come into force so fuel costs will go up for any ships not fitted with scrubbers. There's still no excuse for breaking the existing limits in order to save money as happened in this case.

[terrierjohn]

28 minutes ago, kentchris said:

To be fair, Carnival have had exhaust gas scrubbers fitted to at least 60 of their ships and say they're on course to complete the fleet in 2020. That's when a lower level of permitted sulphur will come into force so fuel costs will go up for any ships not fitted with scrubbers. There's still no excuse for breaking the existing limits in order to save money as happened in this case.

Environmentalists have expressed concerns that the pollutants from the scrubbers will be flushed out at sea leading to further contamination of the oceans.

[Son of Anarchy]

Thank you for posting the link to the outcome of this prosecution.  When I first read about the court case a few weeks ago, my immediate reaction was that the French authorities were joining in on the lets punish the Brits for exiting the EU as in all probability everyone else has been doing this. 

Was it really a spot check?  From what I read Azura, bunkered the illegal fuel in Barcelona.  The bunkering company knowingly sold illegal fuel.  Why weren't they in the dock as well? Or did they fess up Azura to the French authorities after taking the captain's money?

I was interested to read that 80% of the overall fine is being attributed to Carnival.  Presumably a reflection of Carnival's responsibility in this incident.

It will be interesting to see whether Carnival and Pando will making any comment on this.

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

That is disgusting, just imagine all the other lines doing the same thing. 😞

Indeed Jean!

[Britboys]

45 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Thank you for posting the link to the outcome of this prosecution.  When I first read about the court case a few weeks ago, my immediate reaction was that the French authorities were joining in on the lets punish the Brits for exiting the EU as in all probability everyone else has been doing this. 

Was it really a spot check?  From what I read Azura, bunkered the illegal fuel in Barcelona.  The bunkering company knowingly sold illegal fuel.  Why weren't they in the dock as well? Or did they fess up Azura to the French authorities after taking the captain's money?

I was interested to read that 80% of the overall fine is being attributed to Carnival.  Presumably a reflection of Carnival's responsibility in this incident.

It will be interesting to see whether Carnival and Pando will making any comment on this.

Not condoning P&O's actions but you make a good point about the fuel being sold in Barcelona.  Presumably these regulations are Europe-wide as opposed to only French?  If so, the sellers should indeed face legal action too.

[majortom10]

Sorry but how low are P&O (Carnival) going to stoop to save money. The Captain is ultimately responsible but end of the day he doesnt arrange the refuelling and payment of cruise ships at ports it is done by head office and they must have known what type of fuel was being loaded and did it knowingly hoping that they would not be caught and would save money.

[kentchris]

4 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Environmentalists have expressed concerns that the pollutants from the scrubbers will be flushed out at sea leading to further contamination of the oceans.

There's not really any extra contamination, is there? Most the SO2 etc would end up in the ocean anyway if scrubbers weren't fitted as it would be washed out of the atmosphere by rain. A high proportion of the freighters so far fitted with scrubbers apparently have the cheaper open loop systems which dump the pollution straight into the sea. As long as ships' engines are run on cheap crud there's going to be pollution to deal with somewhere, and at least closed loop systems which store the effluent offer a way of mitigating the problem: worrying about whether some ship owners are going to play dirty seems to be missing the point.

[kentchris]

2 hours ago, Britboys said:

Not condoning P&O's actions but you make a good point about the fuel being sold in Barcelona.  Presumably these regulations are Europe-wide as opposed to only French?  If so, the sellers should indeed face legal action too.

It's an International Maritime Organisation regulation, things like that aren't applied at country or even continent level.

[terrierjohn]

30 minutes ago, kentchris said:

There's not really any extra contamination, is there? Most the SO2 etc would end up in the ocean anyway if scrubbers weren't fitted as it would be washed out of the atmosphere by rain. A high proportion of the freighters so far fitted with scrubbers apparently have the cheaper open loop systems which dump the pollution straight into the sea. As long as ships' engines are run on cheap crud there's going to be pollution to deal with somewhere, and at least closed loop systems which store the effluent offer a way of mitigating the problem: worrying about whether some ship owners are going to play dirty seems to be missing the point.

That's only correct if the ships continue to burn crud, if they changed to cleaner fuel, which is what the legislation is intended to achieve, then there would be less SO2 in total.

[john watson]

Are passengers generally for or against the idea of having "Scrubbers" on cruise ships?

 

John

[majortom10]

14 hours ago, john watson said:

Are passengers generally for or against the idea of having "Scrubbers" on cruise ships?

 

John

Depends how much they charge 🤣. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by majortom10

[P-L-B]

Or better still it may be included in a future P&O 'AI' package. 😀

Edited November 27, 2018 by P-L-B

[majortom10]

3 hours ago, P-L-B said:

Or better still it may be included in a future P&O 'AI' package. 😀

Only if they are under £6 

[P-L-B]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

Only if they are under £6 

👍😀

[pete14]

1 minute ago, P-L-B said:

👍😀

 

And no more than one every 15 minutes 😎😏

[P-L-B]

46 minutes ago, pete14 said:

 

And no more than one every 15 minutes 😎😏

😂

[Britboys]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:52 PM, kentchris said:

It's an International Maritime Organisation regulation, things like that aren't applied at country or even continent level.

 

Thanks for the info.  That begs the question as to who took the legal action - the IMO? The French Government? Local Authorities in Marseille?  That could complicate the issue over who should maybe fine the seller of the fuel.

[CCFC]

I hope they fined the French tanker for selling them illegal oil.