VIFP program

[Galatz]

3 hours ago, pacruise804 said:

But do they care more about the person who took 1 cruise in a suite and took advantage of the included perks more but spent little else on board than someone who took 15 cruises in an interior but purchased FTTF, books spa treatments and specialty dining?

But all of that is an easy fix. Everything you buy gives you 1 point. If you book a $200 massage you get 200 points. If you get an $8 drink you get 8 points, you pay $60 for Cheers you get 60 points. It completely levels everything out.

 

Same thing applies to making it cross brands, if you pay $2,000 for Princess you get 2,000 points. If you pay $800 for Carnival you get 800 points. It makes everything level.

 

Airlines and hotels already reward you based on dollars spent rather than nights/trips. Imagine if Marriott gave you the same benefit for staying at the Marriott Marques in midtown Manhattan as they did for staying at a Fairfield Inn in Paducah Kentucky.

[Organized Chaos]

1 hour ago, Galatz said:

But all of that is an easy fix. Everything you buy gives you 1 point. If you book a $200 massage you get 200 points. If you get an $8 drink you get 8 points, you pay $60 for Cheers you get 60 points. It completely levels everything out.

 

Same thing applies to making it cross brands, if you pay $2,000 for Princess you get 2,000 points. If you pay $800 for Carnival you get 800 points. It makes everything level.

 

I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't level anything out because it benefits those of higher incomes far more than those of lower incomes. It creates a class-based cruising system that doesn't align with Carnival's business model. Let's not forget, Carnival is designed to make cruising affordable to more people. But many of you are suggesting a system that's designed to put the ones who can afford the cruise, but not much more, at an extreme disadvantage. Besides, those with higher incomes already benefit more because their money buys them more. Better cabins, spa sessions, specialty dining, different packages, etc. etc. They're also able to take more cruises, more often, which advances them through the current loyalty program quicker, gaining the perks sooner than many others. Creating a Carnival loyalty program based on money spent would only make it more lopsided...not more equal, level, or more fair.

 

Let's say they used the system you're suggesting. If someone gets one point for every dollar they spend, then Carnival would obviously need to drastically adjust the points goals. You can't leave Platinum at 75 points if someone could achieve it with two steakhouse meals. The points goals for each level would have to be increased to ridiculous levels because Carnival doesn't just want to give it away. This would put higher levels (with better perks) even further out of reach for those of lower incomes. I don't think it can get any more disproportionate than that.

[b423]

7 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't level anything out because it benefits those of higher incomes far more than those of lower incomes. It creates a class-based cruising system that doesn't align with Carnival's business model. Let's not forget, Carnival is designed to make cruising affordable to more people. But many of you are suggesting a system that's designed to put the ones who can afford the cruise, but not much more, at an extreme disadvantage. Besides, those with higher incomes already benefit more because their money buys them more. Better cabins, spa sessions, specialty dining, different packages, etc. etc. They're also able to take more cruises, more often, which advances them through the current loyalty program quicker, gaining the perks sooner than many others. Creating a Carnival loyalty program based on money spent would only make it more lopsided...not more equal, level, or more fair.

 

Let's say they used the system you're suggesting. If someone gets one point for every dollar they spend, then Carnival would obviously need to drastically adjust the points goals. You can't leave Platinum at 75 points if someone could achieve it with two steakhouse meals. The points goals for each level would have to be increased to ridiculous levels because Carnival doesn't just want to give it away. This would put higher levels (with better perks) even further out of reach for those of lower incomes. I don't think it can get any more disproportionate than that.

 

Carnival is a for profit company. If changes come you can bet Carnival will want to make sure those that bring higher revenue in cabins and on ship spending keep coming back.

 

Sorry with the growing number of platinum and diamond it isn’t in Carnivals best interest to equally incentivize higher and lower revenue generating customers. Bigger on board spenders play a role in providing the affordable cruise fares.

[pacruise804]

Carnival does reward some higher spenders, just not in the same way.  I often see posts about special cruise rates and DOU cards for casino usage, so they already have different reward systems in place.

[pacruise804]

11 hours ago, Galatz said:

 

Airlines and hotels already reward you based on dollars spent rather than nights/trips. Imagine if Marriott gave you the same benefit for staying at the Marriott Marques in midtown Manhattan as they did for staying at a Fairfield Inn in Paducah Kentucky.

 

It honestly wouldn't bother me either way, as long as it was spelled out in terms and conditions.

 

I personally think days sailed (regardless of money spent) is a reasonably fair compromise between number of cruises and money spent.  I thought there was an old reward system based on number of cruises, which would disproportionally benefit 3-5 day cruisers over 7-14 day.

[Joebucks]

10 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't level anything out because it benefits those of higher incomes far more than those of lower incomes. It creates a class-based cruising system that doesn't align with Carnival's business model. Let's not forget, Carnival is designed to make cruising affordable to more people. But many of you are suggesting a system that's designed to put the ones who can afford the cruise, but not much more, at an extreme disadvantage. Besides, those with higher incomes already benefit more because their money buys them more. Better cabins, spa sessions, specialty dining, different packages, etc. etc. They're also able to take more cruises, more often, which advances them through the current loyalty program quicker, gaining the perks sooner than many others. Creating a Carnival loyalty program based on money spent would only make it more lopsided...not more equal, level, or more fair.

 

Let's say they used the system you're suggesting. If someone gets one point for every dollar they spend, then Carnival would obviously need to drastically adjust the points goals. You can't leave Platinum at 75 points if someone could achieve it with two steakhouse meals. The points goals for each level would have to be increased to ridiculous levels because Carnival doesn't just want to give it away. This would put higher levels (with better perks) even further out of reach for those of lower incomes. I don't think it can get any more disproportionate than that.

 

I'm not going to state how I believe the program should be ran, but your view of "classes" is completely wrong. While noble to go on the internet and to fight for what is fair and just, let's pretend you owned a cruise line for a minute. Would you not see any difference in clients that perhaps purchase the most expensive suites, drink packages, gambling, excursions, etc in order to be "fair" with those who just purchase a cheap room and little extras? If your end goal is to make money, and you don't notice your best clients, that won't work out well for you.

[Galatz]

10 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't level anything out because it benefits those of higher incomes far more than those of lower incomes. It creates a class-based cruising system that doesn't align with Carnival's business model. Let's not forget, Carnival is designed to make cruising affordable to more people. But many of you are suggesting a system that's designed to put the ones who can afford the cruise, but not much more, at an extreme disadvantage. Besides, those with higher incomes already benefit more because their money buys them more. Better cabins, spa sessions, specialty dining, different packages, etc. etc. They're also able to take more cruises, more often, which advances them through the current loyalty program quicker, gaining the perks sooner than many others. Creating a Carnival loyalty program based on money spent would only make it more lopsided...not more equal, level, or more fair.

 

Let's say they used the system you're suggesting. If someone gets one point for every dollar they spend, then Carnival would obviously need to drastically adjust the points goals. You can't leave Platinum at 75 points if someone could achieve it with two steakhouse meals. The points goals for each level would have to be increased to ridiculous levels because Carnival doesn't just want to give it away. This would put higher levels (with better perks) even further out of reach for those of lower incomes. I don't think it can get any more disproportionate than that.

Of course of they switched to dollars the point system wouldn't be the same. How could you think that I meant that? Based on your example every cruiser would reach the highest possible level on their first cruise!

 

Income levels have absolutely nothing to do with what I said, its money spent. Many people will put themselves in debt to upgrade to a suite, while wealthy people might choose to be frugal and go for an interior cabin in order to save money. There are people putting themselves in debt to get an interior room and wealthy people going for suites too. Whichever way it is does not matter to the cruise line, they want more money.

 

Carnival, as a for-profit company cares more about the people who spend more money with them. Why should their reward program work different than every other type of travel company out there? You get more benefits for a $500 hotel room than a $50. You get more miles for a first class ticket than economy. 

 

In addition, based on this system, as I mentioned it could allow for cross brand loyalty programs. If someone has gone on 10 Carnival cruises and spent $1,500 each cruise, they would have 15,000 "Carnival Points" under my system. They now have the option of going to RCCL where they have 0 points or going to Princess where they have 15,000 points and their $3,000 spent gets added together getting them 18,000 points. Now they want to do a HAL cruise, they start there with 18,000 points. It levels the playing field between the lines and stops people from trying lines outside of Carnival's lines.

 

And for the record before you accuse anything, I only cruise with interior rooms, so I would be hurt not helped by this system. My comments are based on what makes sense for Carnival, not me.

 

Currently Platinum is 75 points and Diamond is 200. I would propose they convert each old point into 200 new points. So 75 nights becomes 15,000 points and 200 nights becomes 40,000 points. So if you have 100 nights currently you have 20,000 new points and you are still 50% of the way to Diamond. Princess' conversion might be somewhat different and might be 300 points per night or something like that. So a person with 25 nights on Carnival and 14 on Princess would have 5,000+4,200=9,200 points in this new system as part of conversion and will then earn based on dollars spent going forward.

[Organized Chaos]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

I'm not going to state how I believe the program should be ran, but your view of "classes" is completely wrong. While noble to go on the internet and to fight for what is fair and just, let's pretend you owned a cruise line for a minute. Would you not see any difference in clients that perhaps purchase the most expensive suites, drink packages, gambling, excursions, etc in order to be "fair" with those who just purchase a cheap room and little extras? If your end goal is to make money, and you don't notice your best clients, that won't work out well for you.

 

Of course a for-profit company pays attention to those who spend the most. But we're not talking about the best ways to hold and increase profit margins here. We're talking about the loyalty program. More specifically, how to fairly distribute the points that determine one's level. The "best clients" are already noticed. What others are suggesting will only create a greater divide. Even more of a class-based system. All I'm addressing are the comments that claim a loyalty program based on dollars spent is more "fair," "equal," and/or "level." It wouldn't be, just the opposite.

 

I agree with you that Carnival needs to notice those who spend more with the company. At the same time, they also have to concentrate on newer customers in order to keep them coming back. Plus attract brand new customers. That goes for any company, not just Carnival. A company can't concentrate on only one of those groups. Tell that to the countless P/D's on this forum, and even in this thread, who constantly cry out that Carnival doesn't care about long-time cruisers and that they only care about the newcomers. That's just whiny drivel because it wouldn't lead to much success as a company.

[Organized Chaos]

3 hours ago, Galatz said:

Of course of they switched to dollars the point system wouldn't be the same. How could you think that I meant that? Based on your example every cruiser would reach the highest possible level on their first cruise!

 

I didn't say that's what you meant. I was pointing out that, since the points levels would have to be drastically increased, those higher levels would be further out of reach for those of lower incomes. That, among all the other things I mentioned, wouldn't "make everything level," as you suggested it would.

 

3 hours ago, Galatz said:

Income levels have absolutely nothing to do with what I said, its money spent.

 

They have everything to do with it. Those with higher incomes have more disposable income. Sure, richer people book inside cabins sometimes and poorer people book suites, but overall, that isn't the norm. You say it's not about income levels, but about money spent. Those of higher income levels have more money to spend. Vis à vis, money spent is about income levels.

 

3 hours ago, Galatz said:

Carnival, as a for-profit company cares more about the people who spend more money with them. Why should their reward program work different than every other type of travel company out there? You get more benefits for a $500 hotel room than a $50. You get more miles for a first class ticket than economy.

 

As I told Joebucks, I'm not talking about profits and such. My comments are purely in dispute of those who claim that a system based on money spent is more fair, more equal, and/or would level things out. You ask, why should their rewards program work differently? I ask, why should their rewards program work like all those others?

 

I did not accuse you of anything, nor do I have any intentions to. A rewards program is designed to attract repeat business. That business is what benefits the company.

 

In the end, 1 day at sea = 1 point and it doesn't get more fair than that. I wasn't trying to discuss what brings in the most profits. I was only ever replying to those who spoke of fairness of the VIFP program. It is refreshing to see some people talk about how Carnival really does care about long-time cruisers, because as I said before, most of the time the loudest voices are long-time cruisers who complain that Carnival only cares about newcomers.

[PhillyFan33579]

17 hours ago, Galatz said:

But all of that is an easy fix. Everything you buy gives you 1 point. If you book a $200 massage you get 200 points. If you get an $8 drink you get 8 points, you pay $60 for Cheers you get 60 points. It completely levels everything out.

 

Same thing applies to making it cross brands, if you pay $2,000 for Princess you get 2,000 points. If you pay $800 for Carnival you get 800 points. It makes everything level.

 

Airlines and hotels already reward you based on dollars spent rather than nights/trips. Imagine if Marriott gave you the same benefit for staying at the Marriott Marques in midtown Manhattan as they did for staying at a Fairfield Inn in Paducah Kentucky.

It’s surprising that a company like Carnival, who is such a big player in the cruise industry, has such an archaic loyalty program. Your suggestion is a good one in my opinion and would allow them to implement a loyalty program across all their brands.
 

If it was simply based on money spent, which is becoming more and more the standard for most businesses with loyalty programs, you could implement a program that allows one to cruise on any Carnival Corporation ship and earn points under one loyalty program that covers all their cruise lines.  
 

I don’t understand comments from people that say everyone should be rewarded the same no matter what kind of cabin you are in, for example. That sounds like a tenet of socialism, which history has shown usually fails in the long run. 

[CCLcruiser91]

Rumor has it that the new loyalty program will be announced at the end of the month....

[Joebucks]

4 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

Of course a for-profit company pays attention to those who spend the most. But we're not talking about the best ways to hold and increase profit margins here. We're talking about the loyalty program. More specifically, how to fairly distribute the points that determine one's level. The "best clients" are already noticed. What others are suggesting will only create a greater divide. Even more of a class-based system. All I'm addressing are the comments that claim a loyalty program based on dollars spent is more "fair," "equal," and/or "level." It wouldn't be, just the opposite.

 

I agree with you that Carnival needs to notice those who spend more with the company. At the same time, they also have to concentrate on newer customers in order to keep them coming back. Plus attract brand new customers. That goes for any company, not just Carnival. A company can't concentrate on only one of those groups. Tell that to the countless P/D's on this forum, and even in this thread, who constantly cry out that Carnival doesn't care about long-time cruisers and that they only care about the newcomers. That's just whiny drivel because it wouldn't lead to much success as a company.

 

That second sentence "But we're not talking about the best ways to hold and increase profit margins here" is 100% the reason a company does loyalty programs. It is not to give stuff away out of fairness. It is a marketing program.

 

I don't intend to be smarter than Carnival's marketing department or even have a fraction of the info they see. You will never please everyone, that I do know. There is a way to reward people at all levels. Maybe the answer isn't dollar amount spend (I wouldn't want that personally). I don't completely buy any "fairness" discussions. It's a fact that premium rooms such as suites are big money makers for Carnival. Forget VIFP for a second. If you owned that business and could find a way to stimulate those big spenders to maybe come back more or spend more, would you take it? That doesn't mean the people who don't spend as much are completely forgotten either. In a distant way, this is why Havana was born. A way to capture more premium business. Yet people will complain about classes, because that is what we are trained to do.

 

 

[Organized Chaos]

4 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I don’t understand comments from people that say everyone should be rewarded the same no matter what kind of cabin you are in, for example. That sounds like a tenet of socialism, which history has shown usually fails in the long run. 

 

It's no surprise that you would want a system that sets yourself even further apart from everyone who cruises less than you, considering how you've treated people on this forum. And then to introduce the ridiculous notion that anyone who disagrees is somehow a proponent of socialism. Give me a break. You couldn't offer anything more substantive, so you resorted to calling people socialists because we think Carnival's current loyalty program is fair. That's just sad. Socialism is a large-scale, governmental economic and social system. It is NOT the business model of a single company. That's downright laughable.

[Organized Chaos]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

That second sentence "But we're not talking about the best ways to hold and increase profit margins here" is 100% the reason a company does loyalty programs. It is not to give stuff away out of fairness. It is a marketing program.

 

Again, I don't disagree with you. The question being argued here is, "Is Carnival's current loyalty program fair?" That is all I've been addressing. Everything I've said is to support my belief that, yes, the current program is fair and a program based on money is not. The fact that other companies do it that way means nothing because we're not talking about other companies. Carnival is doing it the way they want. If that happens to change, then so be it. An argument that, "My favorite hotel chain does it, so Carnival should do it too," is not an valid argument.

[TNcruising02]

3 hours ago, CCLcruiser91 said:

Rumor has it that the new loyalty program will be announced at the end of the month....

Do you know when the changes will become effective?  I will reach platinum on my next cruise in April.  Even though I only put down a deposit, my paperworks states priority.  So, I assume that if they change the loyalty program it will not be effective right away.  

[cathyz]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Do you know when the changes will become effective?  I will reach platinum on my next cruise in April.  Even though I only put down a deposit, my paperworks states priority.  So, I assume that if they change the loyalty program it will not be effective right away.  

When they change stuff like this a lot of people/situations are grandfathered in.

[PhillyFan33579]

24 minutes ago, cathyz said:

When they change stuff like this a lot of people/situations are grandfathered in.

Everything I have heard from pretty reliable sources is the new program will not include grandfathering people at their current levels. There are several ways they can do this but the two approaches I have heard most often are they either raise the number of days it takes to make Platinum and Diamond or create new higher levels and move some of the current D&P perks to these higher levels. Most likely it will be a combination of these ideas. My best guess, and that’s all it is because I have not heard specific details just generalities, is they will create new levels between gold and platinum, platinum and diamond, and one above diamond. 

[SRQbeachgirl]

On 1/10/2020 at 6:48 PM, quickrate said:

I politely disagree. I never buy pictures anymore, we don't book Carnival excursions, we know how to maximize our experience without spending a lot of money from booking cabins to booking our own excursions.

Pat

 

It's the opposite for us. In our early cruising days we were young and broke, so we barely scraped up enough to go on the cruise in an ocean view cabin with very little left over to spend onboard. Now we always get balconies and can afford the extras. We always buy FTTF, because we like dropping our bags off as soon as we get onboard and we like the shorter line at Guest Services. On our last cruise we did one of the private photo shoots and spent over $500 on portraits. We buy most of our excursions through Carnival, just for the convenience and the price match guarantee. We also buy jewelry on just about every cruise, not because the prices are better than at home, but because I like jewelry as souvenirs rather than a refrigerator magnet.

 

So for everyone out there who says they spend very little, there's probably an equal number like us who balance things out. 

[Wanna_Cruize]

6 hours ago, CCLcruiser91 said:

Rumor has it that the new loyalty program will be announced at the end of the month....

 

Now I'm worried. DH & I are booked on Panorama for the April 11 cruise with John Heald, and we are on a mission to reach diamond on that cruise. We have 3 more 3-night cruises between now and then. I hope they don't add more to the number of days to Diamond!! 

[CCLcruiser91]

Rumor has it they are creating a level above Diamond - 400 days +

I could see them adding a level between Platinum (75) and Diamond (200).

[quickrate]

11 hours ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

It's the opposite for us. In our early cruising days we were young and broke, so we barely scraped up enough to go on the cruise in an ocean view cabin with very little left over to spend onboard. Now we always get balconies and can afford the extras. We always buy FTTF, because we like dropping our bags off as soon as we get onboard and we like the shorter line at Guest Services. On our last cruise we did one of the private photo shoots and spent over $500 on portraits. We buy most of our excursions through Carnival, just for the convenience and the price match guarantee. We also buy jewelry on just about every cruise, not because the prices are better than at home, but because I like jewelry as souvenirs rather than a refrigerator magnet.

 

So for everyone out there who says they spend very little, there's probably an equal number like us who balance things out. 

We always book a balcony. That is a must. Because we are Diamond, we don't need FTTF, Don't need photos, habe way too many already, Do very few excursions and always from locals if we do one and they are usually hald of what Carnival charges. 

Pat