Removing Gratuity Charges?

[jtheile]

4 hours ago, Newleno said:

Hmm wonder how accurate this is, plus they do get room/board or do they have to leave the ship each night? 

 

Wouldn't it be kind of hard to leave the ship each night while at sea?

[Newleno]

3 minutes ago, jtheile said:

 

Wouldn't it be kind of hard to leave the ship each night while at sea?

 got another one, pretty soon I think I will reach my limit 🙂

Edited February 27, 2019 by Newleno

[jtheile]

2 minutes ago, Newleno said:

 got another one, pretty soon I think I will reach my limit 🙂

Somebody needs a life.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

20 hours ago, Shorty6095 said:

 

 

I absolutely understand both sides of it.  And we would prefer to go the route of removing gratuities, if we are able to.  

you would be doing a great disservice to the staff you claim to care so much about if you remove automatic gratuities. They will have to surrender your cash tip to be pooled, and will only get part of it back.

 

Only remove gratuities if you are completely dissatisfied with the service provided. Short and simple.

[Jachred]

49 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

you would be doing a great disservice to the staff you claim to care so much about if you remove automatic gratuities. They will have to surrender your cash tip to be pooled, and will only get part of it back.

 

Only remove gratuities if you are completely dissatisfied with the service provided. Short and simple.

If it does infact goto the crew, one punish 99% of the crew for one persons or departments bad service?  (Following your assumption that it goes to the crew)

 

For your example.. I have crappy dinner EVERY Time I goto the dining room, wrong order cold food, not empathetic servers, and I have an awesome stateroom steward..  I remove the Daily Service Charge, (is not a gratuity like you claim),  and tip the room steward the same amount as the DSC.  Then the Steward has to turn the tip in, and it goes back to the dining staff I wanted to get nothing because they suck?  

 

 

 

[Jachred]

I will ask again, because I can't find it on google, here or anywhere else.

 

Does anyone have an employment contract for ANY of NCL's tipped position that lays out their compensation?

 

 

 

 

[Stealthdog]

I keep seeing comments about all the "behind the scenes" employees, but everything I read online about cruise ship gratuities consistently state that the daily gratuities are split between dining room/buffet waitstaff and cabin staff (stewards and housekeeping) for non-suite guests.  Carnival is the only line that breaks a portion of their daily gratuities to others (kitchen, entertainment, guest services, etc).  Does anyone have anything they can show that shows a breakdown of where they go, other than just hyperbole?

 

To the OP - do what you think is the right thing. 

[NLH Arizona]

31 minutes ago, Stealthdog said:

I keep seeing comments about all the "behind the scenes" employees, but everything I read online about cruise ship gratuities consistently state that the daily gratuities are split between dining room/buffet waitstaff and cabin staff (stewards and housekeeping) for non-suite guests. 

Why is there a service charge?
The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports. How much is the charge? Onboard Service Charges are additional.

 

https://www.ncl.com/faq#what-is-onboard-service-charge

 

ur crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as Dining Room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account.

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/hotel-service-charge.html

 

During your cruise, our crew members will provide you with excellent service, but many of them will remain invisible. In order to do justice to all our crew members who care for your well-being, a discretionary gratuity of the following amount per person and day will be charged to your onboard account:

 

https://www.princesscruises.se/en/holiday-princess/important-information/gratuities

 

It is customary for our guests to extend gratuities to the shipboard staff in appreciation for their hard work and exceptional service. 100% of your gratuities are distributed to the crew who you interact with, such as your stateroom attendants, dining, bar and culinary services staff, as well as others who work behind the scenes to enhance your overall cruise experience. Applying this charge automatically streamlines the recognition process and ensures our crew will share in your generosity. To help you plan, we have provided the recommended guidelines below:

 

https://help.carnival.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1123/~/service-gratuities-(tips)

Edited February 27, 2019 by NLH Arizona

[phillyguy31]

There are people that just assume corporate greed and keep the DSC, we all know what happens when you assume. Many resorts and upscale hotels have a resort/hotel fee it is part of our society now. If you wanted to tip every person that took care of you because of Freestyle you would be walking around with a load of bills all the time. There may be 2 or 3 people in the MDR each night for dinner, what about all the workers at the buffet, IMHO it would really just be a real pain to do it that way. So until I see some proof otherwise, the DSC works for me.

[FranknBeans]

2 hours ago, Jachred said:

I will ask again, because I can't find it on google, here or anywhere else.

 

Does anyone have an employment contract for ANY of NCL's tipped position that lays out their compensation?\

 

 

2 hours ago, Jachred said:

 

You will never find it as its confidential.

 

 

 

[Jachred]

 

45 minutes ago, FranknBeans said:

You will never find it as its confidential.

 

My employment agreement is 100% online, without names or anything but its there.. If it didn't have a name associated with it, I don't see how it would be.  My employer has very strict online and social media policies so I don't wish to associate myself with them, so no, I won't post it.

 

 

58 minutes ago, phillyguy31 said:

Many resorts and upscale hotels have a resort/hotel fee it is part of our society now.

 

I agree, and it's a scam.  Its a way to advertise a lower price and surprise you when its to late.  It very dishonest.  The worst is Vegas, where the resort fee is HIGHER than the room in many cases.

This type of scam is illegal in the EU, and presumably why we're still allowed to remove them because it violates their law. 

 

 

 

Surprising when you get past all the name calling, rudeness and do what everyone else does people... No real good reason to pay them.   If you're asserting the CREW get any of these Charges please post proof.  

 

 

 

 

[Jachred]

Well.. This is enlightening to the topic.. But how can you trust it when the refer to Cruise Critic as the source... 

 

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

[adam_s_allen]

10 hours ago, newmexicoNita said:

Just signed on and haven't read the responses, but I am pretty sure most will agree with me: you are cheating a lot of people who work behind the scenes if you even think of removing tips. There is a reason most lines have added daily service charges and what do you think that reason is? It is because too many people really were not tipping or not tipping enough. 

I leave the DSC alone and tip extra to anyone that provides me excellent service while on a cruise. But I don't think the reason they have the DSC in place is because of people not tipping. I don't imagine NCL cares whether people tip or not just as much as any restaurant owner would care if I tipped my server or how much. I think the main reason the DSC is there is so that the cruise lines can advertise a lower price.

[erdoran]

I read an article last week about “resort fees” for hotels on Apple News.  The author called them out for what they are - a ploy to make the hotel price appear lower than what it really is, usually on a page of hotel listings.  There was discussion about legislation requiring posted hotel prices to include all mandatory fees - after all, who cares what you call a fee, if it’s mandatory it’s part of the price for the room. This has been done to airline tickets and rental cars; the price you are stuck for before optional extras is what is posted.  It hasn’t been done to the hotel industry, nor to the cruise industry.

 

I’m of the school that I would MUCH prefer to see my daily price as $300 than as $285 and surprise! $15 service charge.  I value honesty and transparency, and if the price is really $300, then just say so in the first place.

 

I also think that a living wage for the crew should be part of the fare and NOT my direct responsibility.  Whether or not the crew get DSC, the perception is created and pushed HARD here on CC that pax are responsible for crew salary through DSC, and by removing it we are doing something terrible.  If that’s really the case, then just add it to the fare and be done with it.  I used to think I never want to see those little envelopes again, but I also don’t want to be played for a sucker.  The amount of angst, name-calling and nastiness about DSC here is huge, probably the biggest debate topic on this board.  That’s just sad.

[luv2kroooz]

7 hours ago, Jachred said:

If it does infact goto the crew, one punish 99% of the crew for one persons or departments bad service?  (Following your assumption that it goes to the crew)

 

For your example.. I have crappy dinner EVERY Time I goto the dining room, wrong order cold food, not empathetic servers, and I have an awesome stateroom steward..  I remove the Daily Service Charge, (is not a gratuity like you claim),  and tip the room steward the same amount as the DSC.  Then the Steward has to turn the tip in, and it goes back to the dining staff I wanted to get nothing because they suck?  

 

 

 

So, what is your recommendation to the problem of receiving bad service, as in your example?

[newmexicoNita]

23 hours ago, beerman2 said:

Daily Service Charge. As some have mentioned the behind the scenes workers get some of that. ( Laundry workers for example) who you never interact with but do a service for you. 

 

IMO just leave the DCS on and tip cash to those YOU want to give extra too.

 

Heck I remember what a pain it was years ago to put cash in the envelopes the last night of the cruise. The Dining room would be half full because pax didn't want to tip the staff.

don't we all remember those days. Think of how many of us had to go to the purser or the casino just to get correct change? And yes, the empty places at the dinner table that last night. Even if the fee sounds high, I love the modern day approach.  

[newmexicoNita]

22 hours ago, Jachred said:

 

So from what I researched, it is not a TIP, or for good service. Its to pay employee's wages.   From what I can gather, they used to pay people crap... and said You'll make tips...  Then people stopped tipping... So they raised their wages to keep them happy, but then charged all passengers the Service Charge (Not tip) for the added expense of paying their crew.  While it doesn't go to the crew directly, it seems that instead of making them tipped positions they just get a real check for what they are worth now, and call the rest a service charge because "everyone else" is doing it.. So they have to stay competitive.   Just the way they word it is very weird.. 

 

Call it what you want. The important thing is; the money, we hope goes to the hard working drew. And yes, you can tip extra if you want. We do tip our cabin steward and some of the bar help extra plus maybe a few others. Yes everyone else is adding a DSC. Actually some hotels are not doing the same by calling it a resort fee. Let me add, the so called resort fee is a heck of a lot more than what we pay on a cruise line for DSC.  

 

 

[bkrickles1]

11 hours ago, erdoran said:

I read an article last week about “resort fees” for hotels on Apple News.  The author called them out for what they are - a ploy to make the hotel price appear lower than what it really is, usually on a page of hotel listings.  There was discussion about legislation requiring posted hotel prices to include all mandatory fees - after all, who cares what you call a fee, if it’s mandatory it’s part of the price for the room. This has been done to airline tickets and rental cars; the price you are stuck for before optional extras is what is posted.  It hasn’t been done to the hotel industry, nor to the cruise industry.

 

I’m of the school that I would MUCH prefer to see my daily price as $300 than as $285 and surprise! $15 service charge.  I value honesty and transparency, and if the price is really $300, then just say so in the first place.

 

I also think that a living wage for the crew should be part of the fare and NOT my direct responsibility.  Whether or not the crew get DSC, the perception is created and pushed HARD here on CC that pax are responsible for crew salary through DSC, and by removing it we are doing something terrible.  If that’s really the case, then just add it to the fare and be done with it.  I used to think I never want to see those little envelopes again, but I also don’t want to be played for a sucker.  The amount of angst, name-calling and nastiness about DSC here is huge, probably the biggest debate topic on this board.  That’s just sad.

I totally agree with this.

I understand why there's a DSC and I have never removed it, but I don't like the concept.

[newmexicoNita]

16 hours ago, Stealthdog said:

I keep seeing comments about all the "behind the scenes" employees, but everything I read online about cruise ship gratuities consistently state that the daily gratuities are split between dining room/buffet waitstaff and cabin staff (stewards and housekeeping) for non-suite guests.  Carnival is the only line that breaks a portion of their daily gratuities to others (kitchen, entertainment, guest services, etc).  Does anyone have anything they can show that shows a breakdown of where they go, other than just hyperbole?

 

To the OP - do what you think is the right thing. 

no, I don't think anyone has the breakdown info but where are you getting your information only Carnival give part of the DSC to behind he scenes employees. I would debate you on this, as there is nowhere this is actually printed or is there? . 

[erdoran]

NCL could put an end to all the angst by saying "100% of the DSC is distributed to the crew as an addition to their base pay, based upon xxx (performance, length of service, whatever)".  Even that would be an improvement.

[Jachred]

11 hours ago, blcruising said:

So, what is your recommendation to the problem of receiving bad service, as in your example?

There is no solution... therefore calling it a tip or for good service is not correct. It's just to pay the crew their wage somthing that should be included in the fare.  Basicly it rewards average service

 

Larry

 

 

[luv2kroooz]

6 minutes ago, erdoran said:

NCL could put an end to all the angst by saying "100% of the DSC is distributed to the crew as an addition to their base pay, based upon xxx (performance, length of service, whatever)".  Even that would be an improvement.

But their hard working crew know that isn't the case so they would be at risk to being exposed

for being deceptive.

[Stealthdog]

16 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

no, I don't think anyone has the breakdown info but where are you getting your information only Carnival give part of the DSC to behind he scenes employees. I would debate you on this, as there is nowhere this is actually printed or is there? . 

 

I just did some web surfing yesterday to see what I could find and I saw several sites reference Carnival as being different from the other cruise lines.  Not sure where they got their information from.  Here are a few - I saw it referenced in a few other places too.

 

https://www.reviewed.com/cruises/features/the-low-down-on-cruise-ship-gratuities-2

Updated in 2015.  Not sure if anything has changed

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article191863039.html

This one is more recent, but again....not sure where there get the info from. 

 

Unless a cruise line actually shows how they do it, I don't believe a word from their FAQ or websites.  I need a little transparency to believe what they say.

[erdoran]

14 minutes ago, Jachred said:

There is no solution... therefore calling it a tip or for good service is not correct. It's just to pay the crew their wage somthing that should be included in the fare.  Basicly it rewards average service

 

Larry

 

 

There is NO removal option for bad service, because, as the vocal DSC people here say "why punish all the people who have provided outstanding service because of the misdeeds of a few, or one?".  So it really is a hidden cruise fare upcharge, just like a hotel resort fee, because of how it is positioned.

 

I know - here's another fair & legit option - charge the DSC but pax have the option to allocate to some extent.  At the end of the cruise instead of little envelopes, you get a sheet "change DSC allocation" which is optional.  Most people won't bother with it.  Those who feel strongly about something can re-allocate.  The behind the scenes share can't be changed, so that way the behind the scenes workers who shouldn't depend on DSC but do can't be "punished".  The only shares that can be changed are the groups the pax has directly interacted with - and it doesn't even have to be by name, just "housekeeping/steward, restaurant, etc" - whatever the customer-facing groups are.  Pax has the option to remove or increase each group's share; removal means that the removed percentage gets redistributed to the remaining groups, not refunded to pax.  If a group's share is decreased, there's a space to say why!  "cold food in MDR, dirty room, poor service by xxxx".  Same goes for increased - but if one group is increased, then the remaining customer-facing groups are proportionately decreased, and pax knows this.

 

A lot of work for pax so only those who feel strongly would do this.  And yes, more work for NCL but hey-if you are pushing off the financial responsibility of payroll onto the pax, this may well decrease the poor service or other excuse removal rate!

[Gampy1967]

4 minutes ago, erdoran said:

There is NO removal option for bad service, because, as the vocal DSC people here say "why punish all the people who have provided outstanding service because of the misdeeds of a few, or one?".  So it really is a hidden cruise fare upcharge, just like a hotel resort fee, because of how it is positioned.

 

I know - here's another fair & legit option - charge the DSC but pax have the option to allocate to some extent.  At the end of the cruise instead of little envelopes, you get a sheet "change DSC allocation" which is optional.  Most people won't bother with it.  Those who feel strongly about something can re-allocate.  The behind the scenes share can't be changed, so that way the behind the scenes workers who shouldn't depend on DSC but do can't be "punished".  The only shares that can be changed are the groups the pax has directly interacted with - and it doesn't even have to be by name, just "housekeeping/steward, restaurant, etc" - whatever the customer-facing groups are.  Pax has the option to remove or increase each group's share; removal means that the removed percentage gets redistributed to the remaining groups, not refunded to pax.  If a group's share is decreased, there's a space to say why!  "cold food in MDR, dirty room, poor service by xxxx".  Same goes for increased - but if one group is increased, then the remaining customer-facing groups are proportionately decreased, and pax knows this.

 

A lot of work for pax so only those who feel strongly would do this.  And yes, more work for NCL but hey-if you are pushing off the financial responsibility of payroll onto the pax, this may well decrease the poor service or other excuse removal rate!

Not sure where you are getting that information or if I am just misunderstanding you, but bad service that is not corrected, is an exact allowable reason given by NCL for the removal of the DSC.  Not saying you should but if I received bad service that was not corrected, then I would remove a portion or the entire DSC as that is my only option.  The entire group gets the benefit of good service and the entire group has to pay for bad service.