Viking Sky survivors

[OnTheJourney]

22 hours ago, TexasTraveler54 said:

We are thinking of doing the B2B as well.  Viking rep I spoke with said we could go ahead and book the 2nd trip or wait till details on the inaugural come out.  I assume we would have same rooms as in March, but would like to upgrade for Barcelona to London or be able to stay in the same room.  Certainly wouldn't want to have to disembark between cruises.  Surely Viking can handle this.

 

Just spoke to Viking again last night. They suggested waiting on booking the B2B until further details come out. That's about the 3rd agent that recommended this (really expected they'd encourage me to go ahead and book the 1/26 sailing to secure a room, but that wasn't the case). Had our room from the March trip been open, I might have been more anxious to do it. Then again, there's no guarantee that we'll even have the same room - makes sense - but it's all supposition at this point, unless someone here has had definite confirmation of this from Viking - which seems unlikely. They don't really know anymore than we do at this point. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

8 hours ago, JDincalif said:

Yes, we went on a Saltstraumen tour with Ivar on a crisp sunny day in Bodo. After some light hiking in the area, we relaxed on the deck of a 'typically Norwegian cafe' (per Ivar) watching the whirlpools form at the height of the tidal flow.

 

Most adventurous of you....I've always been leery of the idea of doing any sort of independent travel in Europe - have only gone with cruises or escorted land tours. Sounds like you had a great time. 

[OnTheJourney]

Kitty and Texas Traveler,

 

I booked the Barcelona-to-London! Lucky for us that another Viking agent I talked to today (one with whom we've corresponded with quite often) told me that our room # from the Sky is available on the Venus. I don't quite understand this since the agent I talked to last night said it wasn't. He confirmed it being open so I couldn't resist. He told me that he can't recall any inaugural sailings that offered pre or post extensions, so this was really the best way to extend the journey. Got a great price on it with the booking, past guest level 1, and bonus (anniversary) discounts. So hopefully we will indeed be assigned the same rooms. Most exciting! This time hoping to definitely get across the North Sea to Tillbury!!  

 

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by OnTheJourney

[ptkelley]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:17 PM, kittycrews said:

Lovely to read about your return to that hospitable country.

 

We were on a cruise with Regent Seven Seas in the Med when we got our "save the dates" for 18-25 January 2021. When we came home to Scotland, we called our Viking hotline and booked the 26 January Barcelona to London leg to continue our journey as a B2B. A very helpful representative, Scott Bennett, booked us on the same deck, same category as our March 2019 cruise, but on the side of the ship to give us the best view sailing north. We still had a remainder on our voucher which was applied. Along with early booking, previous cruiser and travel agent discounts we got an increible deal. See you all in 2021?

Hey Kitty, do you mean that you used your voucher and had some money left over and you were allowed to carry it over and apply to another cruise? I have been told over and over by Viking that I could not carry over any money. That once I applied my voucher it counted as completely used even if there was a balance left over. So I  have not used it yet bc I want to maximize my voucher. Thx 

[OnTheJourney]

pt....what you mention is my understanding as well regarding the voucher. "Use it or lose it", as the saying goes. I didn't want to use it on the Barcelona to London, since it wouldn't even consume half. I'm figuring on booking something that will use all of it - even if I wind up paying out additional. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by OnTheJourney

[kaumond]

When I inquired I was told we could carry it over.  The agent said that is not normally the case with vouchers but this was an extraordinary case.  That said, we ended up using it all on one cruise with flights, extensions and gratuities, etc.  

 

Another interesting thing - we were told that we couldn’t get insurance because we weren’t paying for anything - but we would lose the entire voucher if we had to cancel after we paid (with the voucher).

[OnTheJourney]

Kaumond...you're referring, I assume, to insurance through Viking?  Otherwise, I'd think you could get insurance elsewhere for the value of the trip - although a possible glitch there is what to list for total (paid) trip amount. You raise a really interesting point with this - hadn't thought about it. I'll ask my Viking rep and see what reply I get. 

[OnTheJourney]

Just checked with the agent at insuremytrip. You're absolutely correct. The voucher, for insurance company purposes, is not considered "actual cash value" and so all that is covered is any out-of-pocket expenses or fees paid, etc. to use the voucher. Wow...sort of a bummer....but otherwise it'd really be 'double dipping'. It'd be like trying to claim the value (from trip insurance) from the Sky incident even though we got the money back. 

 

I wonder, though, if in the event of death (or one of the usual 'covered reasons') whether Viking might then allow the voucher to be used another time. Seems pretty hardcore to just consider it lost. I can see if someone simply decides not to go, but seems hard to believe that there are no conditions whatsoever that would allow it to be used at a later time IF, of course, it's still within the 5-year timeframe. I'll definitely explore this further. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by OnTheJourney

[kittycrews]

5 hours ago, ptkelley said:

Hey Kitty, do you mean that you used your voucher and had some money left over and you were allowed to carry it over and apply to another cruise? I have been told over and over by Viking that I could not carry over any money. That once I applied my voucher it counted as completely used even if there was a balance left over. So I  have not used it yet bc I want to maximize my voucher. Thx 

Yes, we had some left over and it was applied.

[TexasTraveler54]

12 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

pt....what you mention is my understanding as well regarding the voucher. "Use it or lose it", as the saying goes. I didn't want to use it on the Barcelona to London, since it wouldn't even consume half. I'm figuring on booking something that will use all of it - even if I wind up paying out additional. 

I was also told - by a couple of different agents - that voucher could only be applied toward 1 trip.  So we've booked one that will use it all up and will pay a bit additional.  Wish Viking would be consistent in their information.  Seems like it would be an easy thing to get across to their agents.

[TexasTraveler54]

Agreed, claiming insurance for cancellation of voucher trip would not be right.  But would hope if cancellation was for significant reason, Viking would consider allowing voucher to be used on another trip.

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, TexasTraveler54 said:

I was also told - by a couple of different agents - that voucher could only be applied toward 1 trip.  So we've booked one that will use it all up and will pay a bit additional.  Wish Viking would be consistent in their information.  Seems like it would be an easy thing to get across to their agents.

 

The agent I deal with seems really good and knows his stuff. He confirmed that it has to be used on one trip. I agree with you totally...shoot the works with it. River cruise with an explorer suite...OH yeah... 🙂 

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, TexasTraveler54 said:

  But would hope if cancellation was for significant reason, Viking would consider allowing voucher to be used on another trip.

 

Seriously...can't imagine, with as flexible as Viking is - at least with regards to being able to make changes to bookings free of penalty (at least if more then 120 days out) - that they wouldn't allow for some extenuating circumstances. But, perhaps not. Be a bummer to lose it. 

[JDincalif]

On 9/13/2019 at 8:27 PM, OnTheJourney said:

Just checked with the agent at insuremytrip. You're absolutely correct. The voucher, for insurance company purposes, is not considered "actual cash value" and so all that is covered is any out-of-pocket expenses or fees paid, etc. to use the voucher. 

For the purposes of booking these 'voucher cruises', do you know if the travel insurance premium prices (either through Viking or in the wider market) are based on the full cruise booking price before the voucher is applied? Or can the insurance premium price be based only on the out-of-pocket expense amount? 

[cruzzzinma]

6 hours ago, JDincalif said:

can the insurance premium price be based only on the out-of-pocket expense amount? 

Out of pocket only according to our insurer. Since we did not pay for the vouchers we weren’t allowed to insure them. I did not check with other agencies.

[JDincalif]

7 hours ago, cruzzzinma said:

Out of pocket only according to our insurer. Since we did not pay for the vouchers we weren’t allowed to insure them. I did not check with other agencies.

Thanks for your response!

[OnTheJourney]

Makes sense....otherwise it really would be an act of fraud to insure any amount not personally paid for. I'd not thought about this before so glad it came up here. I did one cruise where I used the cruise line's insurance, but then still bought a separate policy and indicated zero for the trip costs (since all were already covered) but then still had the benefit of the second policy's medical evacuation amount, which far exceeded that of the cruise line policy. 

[OnTheJourney]

I was just on a cruise that encountered two storm systems in the North Atlantic - one a nor'easter (not quite what I was hoping for on my first cruise following the Sky!). However, the captain was amazing in how he kept us totally informed about what was coming and the subsequent need to change the itinerary. He took the time to make two presentations in the theatre, putting up all sorts of charts and graphs that compared the wind and sea conditions that we would have encountered had we stuck to the original itinerary compared to what we experienced by rearranging (and canceling) a few ports. The difference was remarkable. By changing, we encountered 10-15 kt winds compared to the 50-60 that we would have experienced. When the brunt of the storm hit, we were already in dock for the day - but would have been in open water had the schedule not been changed. I cannot commend him enough for all he did. In his second presentation (which lasted 90 minutes), he had more slides that showed all facets of ship operation. One struck me in particular - shown in this picture.

 

I keep thinking back to the Sky and, unless my memory is not accurate, cannot recall the captain informing us a few days ahead of time that we were going to be sailing into difficult conditions, let alone hold a similar sort of presentation detailing various options that may have been available. Admittedly, it got us to really thinking back to March. I cannot speak for what one captain does compared to another, but certainly I and probably a vast percentage of the passengers were truly impressed with the great care he took of us and how it all turned out. I can only presume that most, if not all, cruise lines adhere to these same general safety guidelines???  

 

We lost 2 ports that were on the itinerary, but substituted a new one for one of those missed, and added an overnight in one of the originally scheduled ports. 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by OnTheJourney

[Mura]

OTOH, I would think that perhaps they learned from the previous experience with SKY and your captain made changes.  He might have done so anyway, but I have to think that his decisions were impacted by what had happened earlier.

 

He may also have had more advance warning than the SKY captain had ... just guessing!  While I did read thread I wasn't on this cruise!

 

Mura

[Heidi13]

While the marine industry is a little behind the airline industry, many, if not all cruise lines, by now will have detailed Bridge Procedures. Both the airlines & marine have hierarchical structures similar to the military, which have resulted in a number of incidents. The airline example we use is the 1977 Pan Am/KLM crash in Tenerife, which was one of the drivers for Cockpit Resource Management (CRM). The 1987 Herald of Free Enterprise sinking drove the Marine equivalent, being implemented by the International Ship Management Code.

 

It basically required ship owners to provide guidance to the Master, using written procedures on how they wanted the Master to operate the vessel. Many of the ship manuals included Bridge procedures, however they tended to be very basic and not an equivalent standard to what the airlines implemented. The statement on the slide regarding NPP would be consistent with the earliest Navigation Policies.

 

About 15 yrs ago P&O/Princess/Cunard took it to a new level, naming their procedures, "Bridge Team Command & Control" It was a comprehensive document that incorporated risk management and human factors training. The points listed in your post are a tiny portion of what is included. It even dictates the Bridge Manning levels and when the Captain must be on the Bridge, which is based on human factors.

 

Princess have further undated their procedures and since the Concordia incident, Carnival implemented across all their brands. Many other cruise lines and major ferry companies have similar procedures. As these types of procedures are well in excess of regulatory requirements, the content is at the sole discretion of the company.

 

Adherence to procedures are audited regularly and Bridge Teams also spend times in simulators practicing various scenarios.

 

Regardless of any Company procedures, the ISM Code clearly states that the Master has an over-riding authority to take any action to ensure the safety of the ship, and her crew and passengers. 

 

I am not aware of Viking's Fleet Operations Manual content, so cannot comment on the level of detail. However to put it into perspective, I wrote the procedures for my last company, which was a project that took over 1 year and comprised a few hundred pages.

 

With respect to the Master making presentations and weather routing opportunities, your ocean and coastal voyages are similar to comparing apples & oranges. With weather routing services, when crossing the ocean on a long passage, the Master can adjust course in any direction to easily avoid storms (most times). In the ocean, the movement of storms is generally predictable with a number of days advance notice.

 

However, on coastal voyages the Master is limited with his/her ability to adjust the course due to the proximity of shallow water and other navigational hazards. Storm tracking is also less predictable around land masses.

 

When on coastal voyages, especially in heavy seas and/or rough weather, the very Navigation Policies you mentioned may preclude the Master from making any presentation, as the policy most likely requires the Master to be present on the Bridge. By avoiding the storms on your ocean cruise, the Master has more flexibility and less requirement to be physically on the Bridge.

 

Ports of Refuge - spending time in port, while storms pass, is not always the best option. Thankfully this worked out, unfortunately remaining in port may be worse than heading out to sea. If the ship is blown off the dock the consequences can be significant. I note the Herald of Free Enterprise sunk just outside the breakwater with loss of almost 200 lives. 

 

[OnTheJourney]

Yes, he talked at length about when he has to be on the bridge - as well as referencing several of the other points you mention. It was an interesting and informative session, as is your post. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by OnTheJourney

[JDincalif]

On 29 October 2019 the Telegraph published this travel article about Viking's "In Search of the Northern Lights" itinerary, written about a January 2019 Viking Sky sailing. It was a reminder of experiences and pleasures that, perhaps, understandably, for some of us, were overshadowed by the dramatic conclusion of our voyage. Hope that all on this thread are doing well and will meet again on the Viking Venus in January 2021.

Edited October 30, 2019 by JDincalif

[Haworth]

JD, thanks for that link, a good read and nice memories of a memorable trip. Like you I hope that everyone is well and January 2021 should be another trip full of laughter, memories and a few drinks

[OnTheJourney]

That is a nice article. Ya know, it DOES mention the availability of helicopter rides as an optional excursion.... 😉  

 

Looking forward to the Venus. Anyone doing the Iberian Explorer after we get to Barcelona? 

Edited October 30, 2019 by OnTheJourney

[kittycrews]

6 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

That is a nice article. Ya know, it DOES mention the availability of helicopter rides as an optional excursion.... 😉  

 

Looking forward to the Venus. Anyone doing the Iberian Explorer after we get to Barcelona? 

We are booked from Barca to London as well!