Just back from Viking Ocean...we miss Oceania!

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, workstocruise said:

Deposit is all I’ve paid.  Final payment is due in late August, 5 mos before we sail.  You just have to tell your TA to give you the latest final payment date.  

This was the case for our cruise as well booked a couple of years ago.

AFAIK, this is no longer true for cruises booked now. Final is due 12 months in advance - no exceptions. I suspect they need cash in hand for all those new ships being built.

There is a thread about this on Viking.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Paulchili

[azdrydock]

54 minutes ago, workstocruise said:

Just one more comment about Viking.  We are booked on the January 20, 2020 cruise from Buenos Aires to Santiago.  So far as of today my $1000. Deposit is all I’ve paid.  Final payment is due in late August, 5 mos before we sail.  You just have to tell your TA to give you the latest final payment date.  

 

I love Oceania but I also think Viking has a great product and we have experienced some service from them that exceeds Oceania. I just don’t want anyone here thinking they would be wasting their money booking Viking cause it’s not true. Our first VO was because their itinerary was much better than O’s.  Also on the O cruise we just got off of, you would not believe how many people on board said Silversea was so much better than Oceania which I totally disagree.  So there you go.  Happy sailings!

 

When did you book? The draconian policy went into effect mid December. The only exceptions were to be grand cruises, on board bookings and I think multiple bookings. We  booked on boards the day it  went in effect and there was much confusion. We ended up getting 6 month for full payment and $100 ea. deposit on both cruises.

 

 

[workstocruise]

We booked the 2020 cruise while we were on board in August of 2018. I won’t make final payment till Aug.  I did not know about the booking on board policy, but we also river cruise with Viking and I never pay in full 12 months ahead.

 

I will say that we were disappointed with the dining room food at night on the river cruises, but we are pretty much done with river cruising.

[cayman09]

I tried booking with less than a year full payment through Viking direct and then through a TA but could not get it lowered. I refuse to pay in full that far in advance so I changed to Oceania.

[chairwomanandjuicerman]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:42 AM, bradpole said:

Hello Everyone!

 

From time to time I’ve seen comments/questions people trying to compare Oceania to Viking Ocean.  We have recently returned from the Viking Star (Venice to Athens) and I can tell you, there is no comparison!  We won’t be booking Viking a second time, we are eagerly anticipating our returning to Oceania! I have started a thread in the Viking section which offers more details on the ports as well as lots of pictures, that can be found here:

 

 

 

First off, we did enjoy our cruise, the ports were amazing and we hope to return.  We didn’t setoff to compare Viking to Oceania but considering when Viking launched I remember seeing a number of presentations by their chairman trying to compare their produce to O’s.  In addition they are in the same price bracket (although I think our Viking cruise was more expensive than a similar O cruise) so comparing the two products seems very fair to us.  Naturally there will be people who completely disagree with what I say, and that's fine.  These are simply my random opinions.  

 

Just a little background, we have only sailed R class ships so far.  We haven’t actually sailed on Marina or Riviera...yet.

 

Physical Ship:  We loved the physical ship, to us Viking Star was near perfection.  Almost everything onboard the ship was well thought out and very comfortable.  The pictures you see online just don’t do that ship justice. There are so many comfortable places to sit and read.  One of the nicest places is the “living room” (or atrium) spanning decks 1-3. It is a lively area in the evening with live music from 6 until late in the evening.  There are numerous areas with comfy couches, chairs, etc.. that just beg for you to sit down and socialize or curl up with a book. Either a book you brought or one of the many books that are all over the ship.  There were numerous times I’d sit down to read my kindle and one of Viking’s books would catch my eye and I’d spend my time reading that book instead. Also, don’t forget the full walkaround promenade deck. Such a nice feature to find on a modern ship.  

 

Cabin:  Although the cabins we have had on Oceania are smaller (Interior, Ocean View, and Balcony) we find them better laid out and have more storage.  We had a DV6 cabin on Viking Star and although it is large the storage was very poor. The biggest waste of space is the desk. There are no drawers, just one very large mini-bar that contains 6 cans of luke warm soda.  The bedside tables do have US, Euro, and USB outlets but besides a small drawer don’t offer much use.  One huge plus on Viking is that the beds are couple of inches higher than O, which meant our suitcase could easily slide under and out.  That same suitcase on O has been a struggle to get it to fit under the bed.  Given the lack of storage on Viking we found ourselves keeping a few items in the suitcase under the bed.  

 

Bathroom:  This where Viking shines!  The bathroom is huge! Two drawers, multiple small shelves on both sides of the sink, and multiple shelves below the sink.   The actual glass enclosed shower is pretty large as well with a big shelf to line up all the soaps and plastic bottles one may have.  The two best features of the bathroom have to be the heated floor and the night light!

 

Cabin softgoods:  This is an area where Viking really misses the boat.  The sheets and towels although spotlessly clean don’t feel to be of a particularly high quality.  The bath towels felt “scratchy” not the wonderful fluffy towels we find on O. The same could be said for the bed sheets.  Considering Viking’s price point and the many other thoughtful touches around the ship this seemed like a strange area to cheap out on.  Also, the pillow cases were the strangest pillow cases we have ever encountered. All of the pillow cases on our pillows (and we had extra because of my bad back) opened on the long end, not the short end, which meant that during the night the pillow cases tended to come off much to easily.  It seems a silly thing to call out here, but we’ve never seen pillow cases (except possibly a decorative one) that was open on the bottom instead of the side. I could see them really upsetting a germaphobe.

 

Food:  No comparison.  Oceania Wins!  Trust me we didn’t go hungry, there were multiple occasions of “why?” or “ummm, nice try” or “think again” uttered under our breath during meals on Viking.  First off baked goods, on Viking seemed fresh, but not even close to the wonderful treats one receives on O.

 

Buffet (Terrace cafe/World cafe).  O wins. Viking does offer some ‘cooked to order’ items but not many.  Most items are pre plated sitting there waiting for you. Eggs benedict at breakfast is plated and sitting on the line, not cooked to order as they are on O.  Considering the World Cafe on Viking has a huge open Galley between the buffet lines there is no excuse for not cooking to order. Even HAL poaches eggs to order!  

 

Pool Grill.  O Wins. On viking they precook pretty much everything and warm it up.  O’s system of placing your order, and taking a number to your table to have a freshly cooked burger delivered to you wins hands down!  

 

Viking seems like they think they have 3,000 people to cook for onboard, not the 900 they actually have onboard.  I wouldn’t be surprised if the people who developed their F&B programs came from mega ships. Those were just a few examples of how the food quality and preparation is vastly superior on O compared to Viking.  I won’t even compare their “speciality” restaurants, I think actions speak louder than words. After just one meal at Manfredi's we cancelled our second.

 

Mamsen’s:  This is a small cafe that Viking has off the side of the Explorer’s lounge (think Horizons) that in the mornings serve WONDERFUL Norwegian waffles and other breakfast items.  Later in the day they serve the waffles again with some of other sweet and savory items and offer some late night munchies (mostly cold cuts).

 

Espresso Machines:  On Viking every bar has their own espresso machine to make wonderful coffees.  Some of the bartenders ability to use these machines and make an espresso can be questioned, but that’s a simple training issue.  

 

From time to time we’d make conversation with other people onboard.  I’d say the vast majority of people who we met that have cruised before have either only done river cruises or have only cruised Viking.  A couple of people seem literally flabbergasted that we’ve cruised other cruise lines! So Viking’s marketing is working, and it seems like there is nothing to slow them down.  

 

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask!

 

So ship was in good shape after the engine failures this spring?

 

[chairwomanandjuicerman]

On 5/26/2019 at 1:50 PM, ChappChapp said:

I have heard that full payment  on Viking is due way out , like almost a year in advance?

 

Payment for our December 2019 sailing due this month

 

[chairwomanandjuicerman]

4 minutes ago, chairwomanandjuicerman said:

So ship was in good shape after the engine failures this spring?

 

Just realized that it may have been the othe ship

[workstocruise]

Well I guess that’s why there are so many cruise lines to choose from.  Everyone has to pick the one that meets their needs.  Oceania is my favorite too, but I also like variety and for us Viking Ocean comes pretty close.  

[Paulchili]

3 hours ago, chairwomanandjuicerman said:

Payment for our December 2019 sailing due this month

 

Lucky you - but that is because it was under the previous rules.

As pointed out above, that will no longer be available in great majority of cases.

[Kingofcool1947]

On 5/27/2019 at 12:56 PM, ORV said:

FWIW, the first time I saw a Viking Ocean ship was in Venice and at first I thought I was looking at an Oceania ship. I had not trouble seeing the resemblance apparently. 

 

For me,  paying one year in advance of sailing is a real

turn off.     And, for that reason alone,  I won’t even consider booking Viking.   Why do they do that?

So, it is Oceania as my near luxury cruise line of choice.   Price comparable.  JMO.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Kingofcool1947

[pinotlover]

I believe Viking ‘s Payment schedule could best be described as “ putting skin in the game “. According to my TA, Several of the cruise lines, Oceania definitely included, have problems with people booking cruises, reserving cabins, going through the drills, then canceling at payment in full time 3-5 months out. Then the cruise lines have to start jumping through hoops to fill those late cancellations. Oceania added to their own misery by having the OCA aboard ship encourage place filler reservations! Even though it’s discouraged, my TA says there are people still booking 4-6 cruises out into the future and then canceling back to a couple.

 

$350-$750, typical non ATW cruise deposits are in fact chump change for most O cruisers. One can cheaply tie up a cabin, with chump change, that is then mostly refundable. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great deal and I enjoy the perk. A major downside is I’ve seen cruises waitlisted out months in advance, and then come PIF time multiple cabins across the spectrum open. I might well had done that cruise, but even retired We can’t jump on cruises 3-4 months out. It’s too late for us. We’ve made other plans.

 

I rarely defend Viking, but they do have a reasonable cancellation policy. They just want the cruisers to have skin in the game.   If you really want to do the cruise, show us the money is their by line. If you just want a couple hundred dollars more OBC and opt to place $750 in placeholders to tie up cabins and cruises you may or may not plan on taking, play that game on Oceania is their attitude.

 

I understand Viking’s logic. Not fond of it, but understand it.

[Buglady777]

This is a great thread!  Thanks all of you for so much information.  We will now look in to Oceania for sure.  I was a little put off at the age of the R class ships, but I am confident their remodels are very good.  We have done one VO, with a second one: In To The Midnight Sun in June.  Picked both  for the itineraries.  But the business model of paying a whole year in advance really chafed us.  We learned they cut you a few month's slack if you ask AT TIME OF BOOKING only.  We did not know this, and were surprised when we were informed we missed our final payment a year out.  Grrr.

[buggins0402]

21 hours ago, Paulchili said:

This was the case for our cruise as well booked a couple of years ago.

AFAIK, this is no longer true for cruises booked now. Final is due 12 months in advance - no exceptions. I suspect they need cash in hand for all those new ships being built.

There is a thread about this on Viking.

Hmmm...using future revenues to fund cap ex?

 

I wonder how how all this is reflected on the balance sheet? 

Edited May 28, 2019 by buggins0402

[Paulchili]

11 minutes ago, buggins0402 said:

Hmmm...using future revenues to fund cap ex?

 

I wonder how how all this is reflected on the balance sheet? 

Of course, I am just guessing why they want a full payment 1 year in advance and what they do with all that cash.

[Mura]

Our last Viking cruise was in February 2012, and that was a river cruise (as all of our Viking trips have been) -- 2003, 2008 and 2012.

 

My recollection is that they did ask for payment a year in advance even then, but it's very possible those were for "special deals".  I think our China trip in 2008 included free air (we upgraded to business given the length of the flight).  That was a very special trip, as was our first on Viking in 2003 (Amsterdam-Basel) but the 2012 trip was a disappointment, which is why we gave up on Viking.

 

On our 2012 trip (Avignon-Paris, then Paris to Normandy and back) we happened to be on the same river boat for the second leg as we'd been on in 2003, and service was vastly diminished.  The biggest complaint we had was the overcrowding on the rivers.  When the boats are triple-decked in port, it isn't fun!  Our first 2003 trip was not at all like that, although to be fair we were on the last cruise of the season in October.

 

But we decided not to go back to river cruising and have not.

 

On the other hand, having a nice lunch along the Douro shore in Portugal a couple of years ago, we were delighted to see the Viking boat pull up right in front of us!

 

Mura

 

 

 

[Kate-AHF]

12 hours ago, buggins0402 said:

Hmmm...using future revenues to fund cap ex?

 

I wonder how how all this is reflected on the balance sheet? 

 

Well, Viking has to service that 2.5 billion in debt somehow.

[pinotlover]

I remember a few years back on a Uniworld River Cruise on the Douro and one of the Uniworld brass was on the cruise. Uniworld has two payment options: you can pay in full well in advance, or you can make a modest down payment and pay nearer to the cruise date. At the time CD rates were maybe 1% , but the early payment discounts were ~10%. So some one asked about the spread since Uniworld could borrow money at less than 10%. 

 

The rep said it isn’t about the money, it’s about the clientele. He said the historical cancellation rate among cruisers willing to put their money down a year in advance was around 5% ( I forget the exact number). The cancellation rate among those only putting down a deposit is 6-7 times that. The 10% early discount is to entice those really interested in the trip to get signed up, because once they did, they’re probably going to be on the cruise.

 

I believe Viking sees the same numbers and plays the same game without the options. We know walks and we know what talks. 

 

On a related note, as someone that often puts together land tours for those fellow Roll Call members , I see this dilemma often. Get your tour lined up we’ll in advance and then around pif date you start getting these messages that people have decided to cancel and do the cruise some other time or go to Timbuktu instead. You never know who’s on your tour until you get on the ship! One often wonders how many they turned away because their tour was “ full”, only to be scrambling later looking for real cruisers instead of mere talkers. 

[bbtondo]

Going on my first Oceana cruise next Spring on the Riviera.  I also looked into Viking Ocean as I was researching my trip.  As soon as I found out that I had to pay the entire cruise cost in advance, that's when I decided not to book Viking Ocean. As far as why Viking does this, I really don't care.   Viking's policy is not for me.

 

It's like paying for my entire kitchen renovation before a hammer even swings.  No way!  JMHO

[azdrydock]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

I remember a few years back on a Uniworld River Cruise on the Douro and one of the Uniworld brass was on the cruise. Uniworld has two payment options: you can pay in full well in advance, or you can make a modest their tour was “ full”,........................

 agree...... One point many are neglecting is you can still cancel and will receive a refund based on the standard cancellation schedule.  Vikings philosophy probably is,  if you are willing  to put the money up front you are serious and you have the cash on hand.   There have some cruises that were sold out that I waited until the first week before the  cancellation penalties set in and suddenly large blocks of cabins appeared available.  

Viking and Oceania have a more difficult time to fill last minute cancellations then NCL simply because of the price. 

Don't know Swiss accounting rules but I doubt it is counted as a sale until the ship sails. There may be making money on the float but it is not significant in the big picture.

That said I.... think it sucks.

 

[bbtondo]

I am aware of Viking's standard cancellation schedule.  I still don't want to pay 100 percent upfront that far in advance.  

[JPR]

Try one of the “O” ships and you will find an even larger discrepancy in favor of Oceania....

[bradpole]

20 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I understand Viking’s logic. Not fond of it, but understand it.

I completely agree your statement!  I remember thinking when I saw my reminder for "final payment is due on x date" I must have put it on my calendar wrong, then I went back through the booking confirmations and verified...yes they do want final payment that far in advance!  

[Hawaiidan]

19 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Of course, I am just guessing why they want a full payment 1 year in advance and what they do with all that cash.

Leverage  for new ships and expansion/ marketing....   interest free !!!    I get it.       what impacts the  customer is if they source their travel funds from investments.    That for some could make the cruise 15 to 25% more expensive if you had to liquidate high earning holdings.       Perhaps a 10% down, non refundable and in the form of a legal contract where your are obligated for the cost of the cruise.   Sort of like how airlines cancel a ticket,, you pay a cancel fee and then have the value of the ticket ( minus the cancel fee) available for your future flights  for 12 months !

That would work.     I dont see someone  playing with 3 or 4 cruises that might end up costing him 30-50,000.00 !!!

[Silver Sweethearts]

23 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I believe Viking ‘s Payment schedule could best be described as “ putting skin in the game “. According to my TA, Several of the cruise lines, Oceania definitely included, have problems with people booking cruises, reserving cabins, going through the drills, then canceling at payment in full time 3-5 months out. Then the cruise lines have to start jumping through hoops to fill those late cancellations. Oceania added to their own misery by having the OCA aboard ship encourage place filler reservations! Even though it’s discouraged, my TA says there are people still booking 4-6 cruises out into the future and then canceling back to a couple.

 

Perhaps Regent was thinking along those lines in respect to their upcoming "Splendor".  For its inaugural year in 2020, the 25% deposit is non-refundable.

[sammiedawg]

When we book a cruise or land trip we have every intention of taking the trip.  But life happens and we have had to cancel on occasion for valid reasons, including some happy and some not so happy reasons.  We have canceled for a family wedding.  Last year we rescheduled a trip because travel dates were too close to a new grand baby’s due date.  Medical issues arise.  It is impossible to predict life events.  

Viking’s sliding scale refund policy is unfavorable to the customer, especially if they have had all my money for a year or more.  It turns me off and their product is nothing special to make me disregard common sense and wise spending practices.  

 

Viking is definitely financing new builds with free money from its loyal customers.   They are thriving now due to economic prosperity but history tells us the economy is unpredictable. 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by sammiedawg