St. Petersburg alternative?

[latserrof]

On our Nieuw Statendam cruise last month we really enjoyed  SPB's two-day deluxe tour in St. Petersburg (Hermitage, Church of Spilled Blood, St.Isaac's, Peter & Paul Fortress, Peterhof, Catherine's and Yusopov Palaces, Neva boat ride); we will be returning to St. Petersburg on the Getaway in October and we don't want to visit the same places again, so can anyone recommend any excursions doing something different?  In most ports we usually just go off and explore on our own, but in Russia that's not easy.

Thank you.

 

 

 

[dogs4fun]

You should contact you tour company to see if they can provide you with a customized private tour - that way you can see what interests you and not duplicate what you have already seen. There are many independent operators and most of them provide customized private tours.

Most of the group tours are fixed itineraries and visit the same sights that you have already done so a private tour will most likely be your only option.

If you want to DIY, you could apply for a Russian visa and you would not need to book a tour - you could do whatever you wish. On my 2nd trip to Russia, I secured a Russian visa. Just depends on what makes the most sense to you.

[twentyco]

We are leaving shortly on a Baltic cruise and are doing St Petersburg.  Like you, we have been there before (on a land tour) and have seen the usual highlights.  We have booked a customized private tour for the three of us with TJ Travel.  They have been wonderful to work with in planning our days.  We are seeing the Russian museum (Russian art) and the Museum of Ethnography (about the Russian people), as well as the Faberge museum and the ballet.  We also set aside time for Nevsky and shopping, and I am sure there are some other things I am missing.  We looked at Rick Steves' Northern European cruise ports guide for ideas, and also emailed with TJ about options.  The private tour for the three of us came out to about the same price as the group tours (does not include lunch or the ballet tickets).  So far TJ has been quite impressive.  

[Coral]

Definitely hit Peterhof in the summer because of the fountains. I have been multiple times and have been to the same places and can't spend enough time there. So much to see at the Hermitage - you could spend a week there. Don't worry about repeating places.

 

I have done 2 different tours at Peter and Paul Fortress but didn't see the same things.

 

On a 2 day tour, you only touch a small sampling of what is offered.

[ljandgb]

I'll second working with TJ.  We used them for our private tour and they were excellent.  We added a stop they'd never done, at the request of my cat loving daughter.  They were very helpful and accommodating.  I'm sure they could help you craft a great tour.

[Kate P.C]

Check out all mentioned agencies above. We booked a customized tour with Anastasia Travel. I have nothing but great words to say about the team who created a memorable trip for all of us.

[trosebery]

Have you asked on your Roll Call yet if there are any other second-timers who might prefer a tour that visits other sights? (And the Hermitage is huge: did you see the Impressionist collection or the Treasures rooms?) Even if it's just the two of you, though, you might find a private tour affordable. The company that we're touring with this summer (second-time around) had a list of possibilities here that I found useful:

https://redsun-tours.com/two-day-second-visitors-shore-excursion/

If you liked SPB-Tours, I'm sure they'd be willing to work with you again to customize something.

Edited June 12, 2019 by trosebery

[tring]

Have you checked your ship's tours?  We will be there in August and have booked a ship's tour which allows free time in 3 different locations ( 1.5 hours at each of St Isaacs and the Field of Mars and 3 hours in Nevsky Prospect), it costs £44 pp and we got a loyalty discount on that.  They are offering an "audio Pen" to go with that which you point at a location on a map and it gives a commentary.  We have not gone for the audio pen as we went to Russia on a River cruise last year with an extra 2 nights in SPB as well as 2 days on the boat when we did the included excursions, so we know the place well.  Looking at a map you can easily work out what is near to those locations. The tour details suggest you can go on a river cruise from Nevsky and The Faberge Museum is right by where the river boats stop.

 

There were also half day tours at £60 or less and we booked one for the previous day.  OK we will be re-doing the river boat tour of SPB, but far better than paying an arm and a leg for a private tour.  I can see if people have not been previously they may want to go 'everywhere' though doing it at speed is not our idea of fun.  We costed a day and even a half day's private tour with one of the main agents and they were quoting in hundreds of £'s.  Lunacy to pay that IMO if you have seen the main sights anyway.  Why not put that sort of cash towards another cruise?

 

If you have not done it before, I would suggest an evening at the ballet which was included in our river cruise - everyone thought that was a really good night, yet we were not the only people who had not experienced a ballet.  Just being in the theatre was an experience as well and we were seated in a box - who says tour companies give the worst deal.  Viking also paid for early doors for all of us in St Catherine's Palace (included tour again) and we were the first group of theirs into the palace - amazing experience.  I would also suggest the "local tour" which goes into the metro and other local things.  We had done all of that from our hotel last year, so it is not our choice for this year.

 

Those who keep saying the only way forward is a private tour have likely never done anything else.  At the very least you will be laughing all the way to the bank if you ignore them.  The only case I can see for doing a private tour is if you have two days in SPB and will definitely not be returning.  Palaces etc, may vary in their decoration, but basically they all disappear into oblivion when you get home and you remember the experiences like I mentioned above. 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by tring

[Sirius 10]

 

As Tring says Private Tours can be expensive, but better to pay than endure the huge queues at so many Destinations.

On arrival at LED this week felt I had arrived in China, no disrespect to Chinese tourists but they can overwhelm some locations.

I used Open Russia for my tours with guide and private Mercedes car for two people.

much easier to travel in the crowded city this time of year.

Would suggest visit to Grand Hotel if on Nevsky, and Kempinski top floor restaurant if near Hermitage.

In my opinion St Petersburg best enjoyed with a little Russian bling !

Try restaurant Nevskaya Zhemchuzina on Obukhovskoi Oborony Ave. Great setting on the Banks of the Neva, not too far from centre. Do not be put off by the number high end vehicles with blacked out windows in the Parking area. A more realistic flavour of St Peter.

 

 

[tring]

Quote   "As Tring says Private Tours can be expensive, but better to pay than endure the huge queues at so many Destinations."

 

The OP says the visit will be October, I do not see that as a problem.  He/she has also been before and seen most of the main "sights" so could visit places that are not the main tourist attractions.  As I say we had no problems at all with our Viking tours (quite the opposite in fact as we were clearly guided through the system) - perhaps you could read my previous post again more fully.

 

Have you actually been on a ship's tour?  I would be very interested if those who constantly advocate private tours would post here if they have actually gone on a ship sponsored tour.  I suggest most people who were seen in long queues probably arrived on spec expecting to get in and those on tours (including ship's tours) were pre booked as we were.  We did some tourist venues independently, but looked for advice before we went as to what needed pre booked tickets - one I remember was the armoury at the Kremlin.  We saw the more well known venues in SPB as included tours with Viking.  The trip advisor forums were great places for advice and the advice often comes from local people who really know the facts.

 

We had no problems at all at the airport in St. Petersburg - perhaps you just arrived with a Chinese plane, which could happen anywhere in the world.    

Edited June 15, 2019 by tring

[Slugsta]

We were first in St Pete's 35 years ago, when it was still Leningrad, and enjoyed being able to do what we wanted for the 3-4 days we were there. There were few tourists around in general and certainly no huge groups.

 

Then we returned on a Baltics cruise 10 years ago. St Pete's has changed in many ways but was still beautiful. The thing I found difficult was being herded around in big groups, rather than just the 2 of us going where we liked. There certainly were queues but the bigger problem, for us, was that everywhere was thronged with tourists like us. The good thing was that we were able to do half day excursions as we didn't feel that we needed to try and pack everything into a 2 day visit.

 

We will be going back to St Pete's next summer and haven't decided what we want to do. Most of the tour companies, understandably, want to do full day tours at least and my health issues make anything other than half days difficult, so we might end up with little choice anyway!

[tring]

Slugsta, must have been great to see St Petersburg before tourism really took off - I envy you for that..

 

We were there last year, admittedly in May, but the main tourist sights did have tour groups around.  What was interesting to us tough was that you only had to walk a relatively small distance from the main venues and the coaches that were used to deliver/collect the groups and what we saw was a lovely city, that was actually quite quiet.  That included the areas just off Nevsky Prospect as that was were our hotel was and a little further along the banks of the Neva from the Hermitage, where we had a great view of Peter and Paul Fortress with the sun on it as we relaxed with a drink at a cafe on one of the boat piers.   That is obviously a factor of the situation when cruise passengers cannot easily go ashore alone and many other tourists find it easier to use trips.

 

Assuming you are returning by cruise ship (it is CC), the I suggest you look for the tour I mention when you have free time as you could use some or even most of that time in cafes or hotels taking refreshments, so not an arduous 7.75 hours.  That is if your Cruise company is offering that tour.  We will be on Arcadia and P&O are offering that tour.   A river cruise from the Nevsky drop off would be a good idea as well if you can manage to get on/off the boat as that would give you chance to sit and take in the scenery for 1.5 hours.  There were toilets on the boat we used (Anglotourismo) and the commentaries are just in English.

 

Apart from that we were looking at half day tours for the afternoon of the first day we are there - I am not good in the mornings and no need to get into the first morning immigration queues that are mentioned on this website.  Looking carefully we have identified something we have not done that does not warn of crowds, whilst the "other details" given with the tours do warn of that for some venues.  Half day trips we are interested in also have the river boat cruise coupled with another venue, so we have decided to go with that, even though we have done it before.  It was enjoyable tough and is better than staying on the ship.  Last year we did find the organised tours moved speedily, so I would suggest you look carefully at tour descriptions and take the "easy" options where possible.  

 

Hope you find something to suit you and your health issues, St Petersburg is a lovely city 🙂

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by tring

[Coral]

5 hours ago, Slugsta said:

We were first in St Pete's 35 years ago, when it was still Leningrad, and enjoyed being able to do what we wanted for the 3-4 days we were there. There were few tourists around in general and certainly no huge groups.

 

I was there in 1988 on a land trip with a high school trip. I later returned in 2007 or so. OMG - what a difference. I much preferred it in 1988!!!!

[latserrof]

Thanks to all for the input. NCL does not offer a tour with significant free time. SPB tours offered private alternatives, but we found those sights unappealing, and the cost relatively high.  (River boat excursion pricing may be different,  i.e., lower, than cruise-ship excursion pricing because the latter includes the "visa" waiver). In the end, we couldn't justify the cost for either visiting unappealing sights or spending free time with a guide/minder, and since we were in St. Petersburg and all of the cruise's other ports (and lucked out with great weather) just last month, we switched to an RCL  Greek islands cruise from Venice.

[fabnfortysomething]

Tring experience with ships tour being that cheap is not the usual experience with cruise ships excursions which is why so many of us go for private tours which work out much cheaper

 

NCL certainly didn't have a tour less than 3 figures and very limited free time

 

as someone suggested river boat excursions don't include added costs of tour company arranging visa waiver

 

[Slugsta]

11 hours ago, Coral said:

I was there in 1988 on a land trip with a high school trip. I later returned in 2007 or so. OMG - what a difference. I much preferred it in 1988!!!!

 

Yes, I know what you mean! The only thing I prefer now is that street names are now given in the Roman alphabet as well as Cyrillic (although that wasn't a problem for me in 1984 as I remembered enough of my rudimentary Russian to decipher the Cyrillic signs).

[tring]

4 hours ago, fabnfortysomething said:

Tring experience with ships tour being that cheap is not the usual experience with cruise ships excursions which is why so many of us go for private tours which work out much cheaper

 

NCL certainly didn't have a tour less than 3 figures and very limited free time

 

as someone suggested river boat excursions don't include added costs of tour company arranging visa waiver

 

 

Wow, I know the big, largely American cruise companies are reputed to charge more for tours, but I am surprised if it really is that much different.  We tend to use the British based companies, which could be a thought for some if they are happy to travel round trip from the UK (mainly Southampton, but some other options are available).  Our trips are well into 3 figures if going for a full day or two days of intense running around various places, but if you choose the simpler half day ones, e.g. Peterhof gardens only with tea and pastries in a hotel,  Peter and Paul's Fortress and river cruise (possibly not a full one), or Yusupov Palace and river cruise.  Two of those three are only 3.5 hours, but longer to travel to Peterhof.  The Peterhof Palace and Gardens tour comes out at over £70 ( so I suppose not far off three figures in US $'s), but would cost more in entrance fees and likely need a more experienced guide.  I also think it is difficult if looking at £'s compared to US $ as $'s are worth less and can sound very off putting to us.  The £44 for full day trip with free time is lots cheaper than the others, but again not much needed from a tour company re guide's work or even coach travel.

 

Mention I made of river cruises was as part of a ship's excursion, so all costs are included.  We did a 1.5 hour HOHO boat tour for no more than £15 when we were staying in a hotel and anyone on the free time trip I mentioned will have needed a visa waiver to have left the ship anyway.  I expect more would be changed if people expect to use currency other than rubles, but there are ATM.s in Nevsky - just need to be careful as it is a tourist area and thieves will be about as in any large tourist city.

 

If we had been faced with the sort of costs you mention we would have got visa's and possibly spent a night in a hotel so we did not need to pay for double entry visa's and do the extra travelling and immigration.  Visa's are not impossible to get, but admittedly would be easier for us as we saved all the details we needed last year.  It did take us a while to get the info. together, so not an easy option for two days admittedly.  

[Coral]

5 hours ago, fabnfortysomething said:

 

as someone suggested river boat excursions don't include added costs of tour company arranging visa waiver

 

River cruises can't arrange for a visa waiver because one needs a visa to fly into Moscow/St. Petersburg and to spend the amount of time in Russia that they do.

 

You can't compare the two.

[tring]

6 hours ago, fabnfortysomething said:

 

as someone suggested river boat excursions don't include added costs of tour company arranging visa waiver

 

 

6 minutes ago, Coral said:

River cruises can't arrange for a visa waiver because one needs a visa to fly into Moscow/St. Petersburg and to spend the amount of time in Russia that they do.

 

You can't compare the two.

 

On reflection I may have misunderstood the original comment made (repeated first here) re what was called "a river boat excursion" and which did seem very strange when I read it.

 

Having seen Coral's post which mentions "river cruises" I am wondering if that original comment meant to refer to  River cruises, like ours from SPB to Moscow last year.  For those then, as Coral says, a Russian visa is needed.  The individual has to apply for the full visa, but help can be obtained from the river cruise company and they need to supply some paperwork, so they do have a roll to play in visa aquisition.  GIven the prices of the optional excursions from our River Cruise company (Viking), they were no cheaper and possibly more expensive than those from a cruise ship, but we chose to spend our "free" time to go around independently and found it a whole lot cheaper to just pay entrance costs.  SPB is actually quite tourist friendly - Moscow less so as more Russian wording and less people spoke English.  Learning the Russian numbers and alphabet got us around though - as long as we could say 'two' in Russian we could easily ask for entrances and metro tickets and understanding the letters and a few simple words meant we could recognise names of places etc.   

[Coral]

15 minutes ago, tring said:

For those then, as Coral says, a Russian visa is needed.  The individual has to apply for the full visa, but help can be obtained from the river cruise company and they need to supply some paperwork, so they do have a roll to play in visa aquisition.  GIven the prices of the optional excursions from our River Cruise company (Viking), they were no cheaper and possibly more expensive than those from a cruise ship, but we chose to spend our "free" time to go around independently and found it a whole lot cheaper to just pay entrance costs. 

Any visit to Russia (flying in and then out - not cruise ships that stay for 1-3 days) require an invitation of some sort from a tour operator/hotel, etc... for US visitors (I don't know of others). So what Viking did was provide an invitation to your visa service.

 

I don't understand what the reference was made of either......

Edited June 16, 2019 by Coral

[tring]

1 hour ago, Coral said:

Any visit to Russia (flying in and then out - not cruise ships that stay for 1-3 days) require an invitation of some sort from a tour operator/hotel, etc... for US visitors (I don't know of others). So what Viking did was provide an invitation to your visa service.

 

I don't understand what the reference was made of either......

 

That was the main part of it, yes, but other stuff was needed and otherwise we sorted the visa's ourselves, we never pay extra for a company to be a go between for us and an official government visa service.  Viking use a third party to deal with the visa requirements - perhaps they have to.  I am sure Viking will be well taxed etc. in various ways by the Russian Government to run their service, as indeed happens to anyone providing hotels/tourist services in Cuba for instance.

 

All guides in St Petersburg (or other areas of Russia) have to be local guides who have done a specific training and it is the same training for all guides (ship or private) and they need to be (presumably registered) as official guides.  Hence they are all the same - not trained by the company providing them.   The guides on the Viking river cruise boats were St Petersburg guides so they could run the excursions in SPB entirely.  Once we moved on, local guides had to be used and the ship's guides just accompanied them and did talks etc. on the ship.  Visa's are also basically a means of fundraising (i.e. a tax), though it is said they are all tit for tat and interestingly Russians on the Trip Advisor forums were reporting early last year it is more difficult for them to get a visa to the UK than to the US, saying  that was why there were less requirements (and possibly cost) for US nationals to get a Russian visa than it was for us as UK citizens.

 

Actually what is needed financially to provide a day trip from any cruise (Ocean and River) is neither here nor there as we do not know the total requirements.  Also there is a much higher cost to the passenger of a river cruise compared to an Ocean cruise, even taking account of the "included" tours on river cruises - Russian river cruises being particularly expensive.  The lower cost of tours for UK based Ocean cruise companies compared to the big (mainly US) lines, is also likely to be a factor of the cost of the cruise.  Extras cost less on UK based Ocean cruises, but those cruises tend to be more expensive than some very cheap prices for some other cruise lines, which are well known as making their cash on the spending opportunities provided when on the ships e.g. tours, drinks, expected tips etc.

[Coral]

1 minute ago, tring said:

 

That was the main part of it, yes, but other stuff was needed and otherwise we sorted the visa's ourselves, we never pay extra for a company to be a go between for us and an official government visa service.  Viking use a third party to deal with the visa requirements - perhaps they have to.  I am sure Viking will be well taxed etc. in various ways by the Russian Government to run their service, as indeed happens to anyone providing hotels/tourist services in Cuba for instance.

 

In the US, we had extensive forms. I have gotten 2 Russian Visas. You do not need to hire a visa service but it helps if you don't live near a Russian Embassy/Consulate. Some friends I traveled with just dealt direct and did not need to go through a visa service. They saved money.

 

Viking just found it easier to send everyone to one company. You could have done it yourself if you preferred.

[tring]

1 hour ago, Coral said:

In the US, we had extensive forms. I have gotten 2 Russian Visas. You do not need to hire a visa service but it helps if you don't live near a Russian Embassy/Consulate. Some friends I traveled with just dealt direct and did not need to go through a visa service. They saved money.

 

Viking just found it easier to send everyone to one company. You could have done it yourself if you preferred.

 

Yes I forgot that can be done for US citizens and well worth while if no local centre.

 

We have to have fingerprints taken now so we have to go to one of the official Russian Visa centres in Edinburgh, Manchester or London as well as fill in an even more demanding form than was needed about 3 years ago, even if you have a company "help" you do the visa.  In fact all the private visa company do in the UK is advise on queries about what is actually needed on the form and check the form over before people visit the official visa centre in person.  The official Russian visa company are happy to answer queries on the phone and, also for a small charge (possibly about £15) will check your form if you email it to them to make sure it is OK and also make an appointment so you do not have to wait at the visa centre.  Without one of those you may have to return to the visa centre to re submit.  The only difference regards using a private visa agency is that they charge vast amounts of cash (more than £100 if I remember correctly) to do what the official visa agency will do for much less.

 

Viking do suggest a private visa company for those that want to use one, but also provide the invite and other details to people doing a direct application.  Those details (several pages of) sent to us seemed to conflict re name of a company to put on the application c.f. what our invitation named as the company dealing with our holiday.  We rang the Viking visa section who realised we had been sent the details for people using the private visa provider, so they re sent the correct ones.  Strangely, when the correct details arrived, the only difference we found was the name of the company to put on the application (it now was the same as on our invite).  That name is different depending on if you are doing own visas or using the private visa company.  Otherwise we were given exactly the same details as people who had paid the extortionate price and we could still ring a Viking number to ask further advice.  So, as I said the only other thing done by the private company was checking the form and I do not think they could even make an appointment to go to the official visa agency, which we had done for the smaller charge.

 

As I said strange............but not entirely surprising.

 

Happy holidays all,

 

Barbara

Edited June 16, 2019 by tring

[fly2themoon]

We’re using Best Gudes and tailoring our visit to our interests and trying to avoid duplications. Some great suggestions found on this thread. 

[dogs4fun]

On 6/16/2019 at 11:31 AM, Coral said:

In the US, we had extensive forms. I have gotten 2 Russian Visas. You do not need to hire a visa service but it helps if you don't live near a Russian Embassy/Consulate. Some friends I traveled with just dealt direct and did not need to go through a visa service. They saved money.

 

Viking just found it easier to send everyone to one company. You could have done it yourself if you preferred.

Yes, the application is quite lengthy (especially onerous is the education section if, like myself, you possess a doctorate - lots of different institutes with ongoing education that one must list with dates attended including names and addresses of each university). I am now using my 4th Russian visa and I simply copied the info from my first visa so input is easier (minus the countries visited, of course).

The cost of my most recent 3 year visa was, if memory correctly serves, $353 USD. I always use ILS. There is no consulate in my city so I must use their mail service and pay the associated fee. It would cost much more to travel to one of the four cities that host Russian Consulates.