Tip to the server?

[AKR2011]

I have to wonder how many pages this thread would be if all of the tipping threads were combined. I feel like a new thread begins at least once a week. The fact is, no one will ever agree, but we will continue debating it until the end of time. Here is what I know:

• Cruise lines used to leave you envelopes and ask that you tip in cash on the last day. They gave Instructions as to who should get what, and many people skipped the MDR on the last night to avoid tipping. 
• The DSC that NCL asks us all to pay is to pay for all service, seen or unseen, on the ship. It's explained quite clearly in the guidelines that nothing else is required...but if staff go above and beyond, it's nice to recognize them with additional tips. Otherwise, no tipping is required. Except of course the things not included in DSC - buter, concierge, childcare, and such - I think that's it, but I may be missing something.
• You can prepay the DSC so you don't need to worry about it later. You can just add it to the cost when you budget, and if you pay ahead, you don't have to worry about paying more if the rate is raised...and it has raised a lot. It was $12 in 2011 on my first NCL cruise, and the past couple years have had quite a few raises. But really, everything is going up when you think about it.
• If you buy specialty meals or beverages - with or without a package - a gratuity of 20% is automatically added. No need to tip more, but again, you can tip extra for exceptional service. 
• You can drop the DSC on board on the last day and get your money refunded later if you really want, but they will ask why.

My personal opinions:

• Pay the DSC. Just do it at the beginning and then it's a whole lot easier to budget for vacation and manage the account on Vacation. If you can't afford to pay it, then perhaps wait to cruise when you can. We only vacation every couple years (except one time when DH won a vacation at work), and I search for good deals on longer itineraries. I won't book unless I know that we can afford it.
• I LOVE towel animals. Even before they took them away unless you asked, I always tipped my room steward at the beginning and asked for them, because to me, they're important. And when we've had great stewards, we've left extra at the end...but that's just US. No one is required to do this. And I wouldn't tip ahead if it wasn't for the cuteness of the animals. I'm just a sucker.
• We like to drink on vacation and try new things. When we get to know a bartender and they're engaging, we leave tips here and there, not every drink, but every once in awhile. Our favorite bartenders have challenged us to riddles and have been engaged in the games that we play at the bar. Again, just us, but those are the staff that we love the most. We don't tip for faster service, we tip because of their engagement, but that also leads to faster service at times. The crew work so hard, and when they make our day, we make sure to thank them in cash.
• Vacation Hero Cards, I have been told, mean a lot to the crew and cost passengers nothing. Personally, I carry a stack in my handbag at all times and fill them out as I go. Every day I fill out new ones. It only takes a few minutes, but I have had staff tell me how much they appreciate it. The cards give them extra time off, special meals, extra time in port, etc.
• I think the reason that the service desk asks why you are dropping the DSC if you do so is because they want to know what needs to be improved. They want to make your experience better. Personally I would NEVER remove that, but everyone is entitled to make their own choice.

In conclusion:

• There are far too many tipping threads on CC and we will never all agree.
• NCL says that the DSC is all that they ask of you as a passenger, but extra tipping is always appreciated for exceptional service. 
• You can do whatever you want, but now I've shared my own thoughts.

Edited January 1, 2020 by AKR2011

[smplybcause]

On 12/31/2019 at 8:24 AM, erdoran said:

we knew the envelope contents got to the folks they were intended for and there was no "back of the house" reliance on an optional "service charge" for a fair wage.

 

I highly doubt none of that money was making it to the back of the house. I always heard part of the reason they were included in the pool was to stop stewards from bribing to get stuff they need faster or better stuff. 

 

On 12/31/2019 at 8:24 AM, erdoran said:

but at least there was the confidence that the GRATUITY that I was paying (and frankly, expected to pay thanks to US culture, but whatever) wasn't used to subsidize NCL's payroll,

 

Snort it was substituting payroll back then just like it is now. It's not like the cruiselines were paying them the same in their check - they were paying them less in their paycheck due to the cash it was assumed they were getting. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the rules around maritime pay were also behind the cruiselines switching to an automatic fee, but my knowledge on the rules just comes from reading others on here that know it. 

[KateQ22003]

14 hours ago, buckeyefrank said:

It wouldn't be under on-board revenue.  It should be directly booked into a liability account and not roll through the income statement at all. The money collected is not revenue and it's not expense.  It is nothing but a balance sheet transaction.

You are right, but looking at the balance sheet, there is no such beast. 

[buckeyefrank]

3 hours ago, KateQ22003 said:

You are right, but looking at the balance sheet, there is no such beast. 

In the YE financial report or the 10-K there would be no line on the Balance Sheet (BS) detailing specifically the DSC.  I guarantee you there is at least one, probably several.  One account would be for prepaid, a second for paid during the cruise and possibly a third for those accounts who had them adjusted (not sure about that one).  I'm guessing they have a designation in the account coding string to designate the specific ship instead of using different GL accounts.  This is generally what happens in corporations.  A lot of account coding string lines are combined into one specific line item for the 10-K and the YE BS.  The description of the account on the 10-K and YE BS is going to have a generic name like 'Other Liabilities" or it could be included in  a line named Accrued Wages or Liabilities to Employees.  The exact verbiage can vary.  Also, the amount that would be included on the BS would not be the total amount collected.  It would only show the amounts not yet distributed to employees and would be a small portion of the total amount.

 

I do applaud you for going and looking at the financial statements and / or 10-K reporting.  Not too many people can trudge through 80 - 100 pages of crap looking for stuff.  However, the FS are designed to allow investors or potential investors in a company a glimpse into the financial health so they can make an informed decision.  They can make decisions on questions like.. Did they earn money?  Do they have enough cash in the bank?  How much cash did they collect?  Are they making a big enough return on their investments?  The detail is not granular enough for anyone outside of the cruise line to see what's going on.  I used to work at one of the world's largest banks and was involved in a piece of their annual audits.  The number of accounting string combinations they have for the total company had to be over a million.  You will never see that level of detail in an SEC filing.

[Da-Painter]

On 12/27/2019 at 7:17 PM, waterjock said:

Their is a space on your bill to leave a tip on your ship board card. This should be shared by every one who serves you. If you leave a cash tip you seam to be rewarding the waiter who served you. I am sure NCL has a rule on this but how do they enforce it i do not know. I see the waiter removing the cash from the bill holder did he keep it or report it?

Is this shared by everyone who serves me??, do you know that NCL disperses all of a tip to just these 5 people that were involved with my meal, or is this just speculation? Again, or does it just go into a big pot that NCL does not fully disclose to us?

NCL does not answer this question. 

[Da-Painter]

On 12/27/2019 at 7:08 PM, Sauer-kraut said:

Film out a Hero Card for that server, maybe have one handy so they can fill in their name.  These are worth a lot to the crew and bonuses are given out based on these cards.

I agree, in a cruise we usually fill out a few Hero cards. I know they can get time off the ship at ports, days off, it will have more impact to them then a few dollars gratuity that they never see from a restaurant bill. We take a picture of the individuals name tag, so we get it filled out correctly.

[Da-Painter]

On 12/28/2019 at 4:57 AM, pghflyer said:

We Americans are really reaping what we sow around the world with the tipping insanity we pioneered such that your mind can go wild wondering what everyone expects. But not on a cruise - it is published and clear as day (well, a Florida day). I tip the normal daily charge as the company intends and put my wallet in the safe and enjoy a stress free cashless vacation - honestly this letting go of constant spending monitoring is a large part of the draw. It would take a horrendous extraordinarily bad cruise for me to adjust it lower because there are just too many contributors to penalize all for a few.....and as I am already tipping for good service, it would take extraordinarily special treatment for me to tip extra. I have filled out a few cards for good staff.  It's wonderful others have personal reasons to tip extra but it certainly isn't obligated and while the staff don't have equivalent prosperity as the cruisers, there are many more places / charities around the world that could benefit from our donations. 

I agree, I am on vacation, and do not feel obligated to carry cash with me to pass to everyone all day long. The DSC covers this for me. But I see so many folks state that they pay extra gratuities all the time, but question if the person they would like this $$ to go to, really receives it. 

[Da-Painter]

On 12/31/2019 at 5:06 AM, mjkacmom said:

Back in the day, passengers were given envelopes to tip out, then the cruise lines substituted the DSC so passengers didn’t have to worry about it, made it as simple as possible. Whether passengers pay through the DSC or higher fares, the amount would be the same. However, they want to advertise the lowest prices possible. Personally, it makes zero difference to me if I’m paying $1000 pp, or $800 + $200 pp, because it’s exactly the same.

The envelope idea was a disaster. You had to run around to pass out envelopes to folks, couldn't find half of them, then felt bad that you could not find them. 

The DSC works fine for me.

In addition I usually fill out a hero card, and hand our room steward a thank you card, and cash. To me, these are folks that work ALL day long, by themselves, day after day. Turn the cabins around on the last day, its hard work. The last cruise the steward mentioned he had been with NCL for over 20 years, and like a lot of folks working on the cruise ships, had a family at home that they are away from. They usually have the most interaction with me, then any other employee, during my cruise. I could never do that, and admire and respect all the hard working folks on the cruise ships. I hope the $$ I give him can stay in his pocket, he deserves it. 

But no one really know if our other gratuities actually end up in the pockets of the folks, when we leave that additional gratuity at dinner, etc. 

[KateQ22003]

On 1/2/2020 at 8:31 AM, buckeyefrank said:

In the YE financial report or the 10-K there would be no line on the Balance Sheet (BS) detailing specifically the DSC.  I guarantee you there is at least one, probably several.  One account would be for prepaid, a second for paid during the cruise and possibly a third for those accounts who had them adjusted (not sure about that one).  I'm guessing they have a designation in the account coding string to designate the specific ship instead of using different GL accounts.  This is generally what happens in corporations.  A lot of account coding string lines are combined into one specific line item for the 10-K and the YE BS.  The description of the account on the 10-K and YE BS is going to have a generic name like 'Other Liabilities" or it could be included in  a line named Accrued Wages or Liabilities to Employees.  The exact verbiage can vary.  Also, the amount that would be included on the BS would not be the total amount collected.  It would only show the amounts not yet distributed to employees and would be a small portion of the total amount.

 

I do applaud you for going and looking at the financial statements and / or 10-K reporting.  Not too many people can trudge through 80 - 100 pages of crap looking for stuff.  However, the FS are designed to allow investors or potential investors in a company a glimpse into the financial health so they can make an informed decision.  They can make decisions on questions like.. Did they earn money?  Do they have enough cash in the bank?  How much cash did they collect?  Are they making a big enough return on their investments?  The detail is not granular enough for anyone outside of the cruise line to see what's going on.  I used to work at one of the world's largest banks and was involved in a piece of their annual audits.  The number of accounting string combinations they have for the total company had to be over a million.  You will never see that level of detail in an SEC filing.

Yea, as a finance assistant this stuff fascinates me. I know my way around a P&L and a balance sheet; I also know that employee wages, accrued wages or whatever they want to call it would be very visible. As you said, it would be a huge amount. It isn't there.

Edited January 4, 2020 by KateQ22003

[erdoran]

55 minutes ago, KateQ22003 said:

Yea, as a finance assistant this stuff fascinates me. I know my way around a P&L and a balance sheet; I also know that employee wages, accrued wages or whatever they want to call it would be very visible. As you said, it would be a huge amount. It isn't there.

I’m also the school that NCL needs to be more transparent about the DSC, AND since I’m paying it, I want to be sure it is going to employees over and above their salaries...

 

Having said that, if the theory that NCL is passing DSC through to wages, the absence of wages on the balance sheet is inconsistent with that theory, because there ARE employees, lots of them, who by no stretch of the imagination are covered by DSC - everything from the ship’s captains through corporate employees and officers.  Even if they outsource their call center, they must still have corporate infrastructure to manage their business as well.

 

 

[ziggyuk]

1 hour ago, erdoran said:

I want to be sure it is going to employees over and above their salaries...

 

 

That's one thing it's not, the DSC pays salary up until the maritime minimum wage and then any additional is a bonus above the salary.

 

If the DSC does not meet the maritime minimum NCL have to top it up, I thought most in the US were happy with this situation as it similar to a restaurant servers setup but at least at sea there is a minimum wage.

[mjkacmom]

13 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

 

That's one thing it's not, the DSC pays salary up until the maritime minimum wage and then any additional is a bonus above the salary.

 

If the DSC does not meet the maritime minimum NCL have to top it up, I thought most in the US were happy with this situation as it similar to a restaurant servers setup but at least at sea there is a minimum wage.

 

13 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

 

That's one thing it's not, the DSC pays salary up until the maritime minimum wage and then any additional is a bonus above the salary.

 

If the DSC does not meet the maritime minimum NCL have to top it up, I thought most in the US were happy with this situation as it similar to a restaurant servers setup but at least at sea there is a minimum wage.

There is a minimum wages for servers, based on state. In my state, it’s $2.13 an hour, and where my daughter worked, tips were pooled, so very similar to the DSC.

[erdoran]

1 hour ago, ziggyuk said:

 

That's one thing it's not, the DSC pays salary up until the maritime minimum wage and then any additional is a bonus above the salary.

 

If the DSC does not meet the maritime minimum NCL have to top it up, I thought most in the US were happy with this situation as it similar to a restaurant servers setup but at least at sea there is a minimum wage.

Restaurant servers get paid their minimum wage directly from the restaurant, and tips are theirs to keep or tip out to others.  Their tips do NOT go to pay the $2.13/hr or whatever the ridiculously low figure is.  

 

As an American, if I give a tip I expect it to go to the person I’ve handed it to, and that person has control over what happens with it - whether it’s pooled (they are aware of pooling), tipping others internally, or ??

[AliceIn02]

We stay in the Haven, and I always assumed that the prepaid gratuities covered the service staff other than the ones who served us personally throughout the cruise.  We gave tips above and beyond DSC for our butler, the concierge, and for the maitre d' at the Haven restaurant.   

[erdoran]

Butler and concierge are not DSC and should be tipped separately. I believe all others are DSC. 

[shanefm3]

What he meant was ,if you leave the tip on the slip , he’d have to share with buss staff and maitre d. If you leave cash , he keeps the entire tip for himself [emoji16]


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[GettotheSun]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:53 PM, AKR2011 said:

In conclusion:

• There are far too many tipping threads on CC and we will never all agree.
• NCL says that the DSC is all that they ask of you as a passenger, but extra tipping is always appreciated for exceptional service. 
• You can do whatever you want, but now I've shared my own thoughts.

I think you sum it up well above. I am a newbie cruiser but frankly I chuckle at these stories of days gone by, about envelopes and finding the people you want to tip.  
 

I know my opinion may be in the minority but I completely disagree with waiting until the very end to tip team members such as the Haven butler or concierge.  This isn’t a single meal at a restaurant where if I’m very disappointed with the service I can leave a crap tip (or no tip) and never return. For me, this is a week long cruise.  To wait until the end of the cruise to tip those you felt did a good job basically leaves the person paying / tipping no way to send a message to servers about service until the vacation is over.  (Well of course you can complain up the command chain, see how popular that makes you).   Sorry, waiting until the very end to tip at all makes no sense to me.

Edited January 4, 2020 by GettotheSun

[buckeyefrank]

On 1/4/2020 at 6:42 AM, erdoran said:

I’m also the school that NCL needs to be more transparent about the DSC, AND since I’m paying it, I want to be sure it is going to employees over and above their salaries...

 

Having said that, if the theory that NCL is passing DSC through to wages, the absence of wages on the balance sheet is inconsistent with that theory, because there ARE employees, lots of them, who by no stretch of the imagination are covered by DSC - everything from the ship’s captains through corporate employees and officers.  Even if they outsource their call center, they must still have corporate infrastructure to manage their business as well.

 

 

Not at all inconsistent.  The Balance Sheet is as of a certain date. typically the end of the year.  Money is collected and as each ship is processed into their general ledger system, it credits the specific DSC accounts for the paid amounts, whether on board or prepaid.  I do not know how often the crew get paid, but at least once a month, the amounts collected for DSC would be partitioned out to the appropriate employees and processed as tips onto their paycheck.  So the only thing remaining on the books at the end of a month or year would be the previous month's DSC collections that have not been distributed.  It would not be the entire year's worth of DSC collected.  It would be no more than a month's worth and could be less than that if tips are distributed bi-weekly.  Looking at the 2018 BS, they have 716,499,000.  That is plenty in that line item to cover 1 month DSC.   The large portion of that will be standard payroll accruals along with other misc stuff.

 

I still don't understand why someone needs to know how the DSC is being divided up.  People don't go into the Olive Garden and question the company how they are distributing the tips left on credit cards.  I don't hear anyone saying the OG needs to be more transparent in how they distribute tips.   What about all-inclusive vacation resorts.  Those are generally tip included.  Nobody's griping about those either.

[buckeyefrank]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:29 AM, erdoran said:

Restaurant servers get paid their minimum wage directly from the restaurant, and tips are theirs to keep or tip out to others.  Their tips do NOT go to pay the $2.13/hr or whatever the ridiculously low figure is.  

 

As an American, if I give a tip I expect it to go to the person I’ve handed it to, and that person has control over what happens with it - whether it’s pooled (they are aware of pooling), tipping others internally, or ??

I'm curious if you question the tip you leave on a credit card?  Same situation as with NCL or any other line.  81% of transactions at a restaurant are credit card transactions.