Don’t go on a cruise!

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 minutes ago, Viv0828 said:

 

that may be true but i wouldn't go on that ship - too big!

 

Kind of a completely different point than the one you have been trying to push.

[Viv0828]

6 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Kind of a completely different point than the one you have been trying to push.

 

not sure what point i was trying to "push" other than doing your research.

[That sinking feeling]

39 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I hope so, since fares will be dirt cheap because of this kind of ignorance.  Never sailed on Princess, but I would have no reservations about booking a cruise on that ship if the right opportunity presented itself.  

Neither would I. It's like the twilight zone on this thread. 

[writerteacher]

I have a European cruise starting in late April. Our party will make a decision around the beginning of that month. We are paid in full by now, so we might as well wait and see. By then either this will have been contained, or not been contained, or perhaps a medical protocol that is effective will be found. Right now the virus has a foothold in Europe, which I was hoping would not happen. In a few days we will learn if port stops in Venice will be affected, and whether travel to places like Milan is discouraged. It remains to be seen how many cases develop in that region, and how fast. I think anyone who has elderly people in their party, or people with compromised health or immune systems, as we do, would watch this closely. And someone mentioned how long the virus can live on a surface. It isn't clear. However, as long as 9 days has been suggested by some scientists. Or as short as 1 hour. Our ignorance about this virus is one of the problems. Until we know more I am not inclined to book more cruises this year, no matter how cheap they are. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

51 minutes ago, Viv0828 said:

 

not sure what point i was trying to "push" other than doing your research.

 

Sorry, I had you confused with momofmeg.  You have my apologies.

[Viv0828]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Sorry, I had you confused with momofmeg.  You have my apologies.

 

no prob. lotsa peeps on here!

[SuiteTraveler]

Not sure if the port is closed, but Carnival has been cancelled in Venice and several towns,  are quarantined: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51602007

https://www.ft.com/content/2f937640-5621-11ea-abe5-8e03987b7b20

https://www.cumnockchronicle.com/news/national-news/18256110.venice-carnival-cancelled-bid-halt-coronavirus-spread/

Austria has stopped all train service to and from Italy

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/italy-cancels-venice-carnival-bid-halt-spread-virus-69160543

 

Between the floods and now this virus, it seems like Venice can't catch a break.

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, Viv0828 said:

 

i heard italy has some coronavirus. don't know what they plan to do. just keep well informed as your departure date gets closer. dh heard about it on the al jazeera app. 

Yes Italy has some; I heard on the news they went from 3 confirmed cases on Friday to 150 now.

[Viv0828]

we were supposed to be on the westerdam right now for 28 days and then we had a 3 week china land tour booked. maybe next spring?

in april we will probably visit some of the caribbean islands we have missed (by air not sea) and then drive through the southern USA instead of our asia trip.

we are hoping to do a family cruise through new england and eastern canada in june. if it doesn't work out we will probabaly fly/drive there. not gonna worry about it now.

we have a good friend in switzerland near the italian border who we are hoping to see in july. if things are reasonably "normal" in her area in july, we will go.

i guess you just gotta be flexible.

[KnowTheScore]

6 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Someone should do research on how short the life of a virus is outside of a host.  A clue, keep everyone off the ship for a couple of hours, or let's say 2 days, to be safe, and there won't be a live virus left.

 

Avoiding that ship because of that quarantine is superstition, not science.

 

Some cold viruses can survive for 7 days or more on surfaces.

 

But the point is completely moot TBH

 

You now have a situation where COVID-19 has been introduced to the world population and thus it is now with us for all time.  It's never going to go away no more than Flu does and of course as soon as the pharmaceuticals start peddling a vaccine we will have the same cyclical process that we have now with Flu.    Ever wondered why Flu is seasonal?   Do you think flu viruses pack their bags in summer and go on their holidays and then come back with a vengeance over winter?  Yep perhaps that's a possibility.  Or maybe it's because they vaccinate kids with LIVE flu virus and they go running around oblivious to hygiene standards and spreading and shedding the virus for days afterward thereby ensuring that everyone else gets flu and creates a lovely yearly market for the adult flu vaccines !!

 

COVID-19 I predict will be no different.  It will become the latest $billion dollar money making business in no time at all.  They will  likely also use it as an excuse to make vaccines mandatory.

 

Anyway, the point is that even if you make the Diamond Princess a ghost ship for a week and clear it of bugs, you will just get some passenger or crew member walk back on board with it completely unwittingly during that 14 day incubation period, having no clue they have the virus and that they are spreading it to everyone else.

 

The net result is that cruising is pretty much knackered in perpetuity from this point onward.  If the industry is going to have any chance of surviving at all then it is going to have to make some agreement with the CDC and WHO to change how they manage outbreaks of COVID-19 when they happen.   Quarantining all passengers in their cabins on "death ships" is simply not going to be acceptable every time it happens.

 

We already live with Influenza.

 

When we get Flu on-board we don't go locking everyone up in their cabins.  We have to move toward a situation where the same is true for COVID-19.   When someone gets it you have to give everyone else the choice to leave the ship and fly home or to stay on-board as a free passenger and take their chances.

 

If they don't do this the cruising industry is simply finished.

 

It is not the threat of catching the virus that is of prime concern, it is the forced security and medical protocols that currently surround COVID-19 that are the issue.  Until that situation changes I won't be cruising again simple as.

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

25 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Some cold viruses can survive for 7 days or more on surfaces.

 

But the point is completely moot TBH

 

You now have a situation where COVID-19 has been introduced to the world population and thus it is now with us for all time.  It's never going to go away no more than Flu does and of course as soon as the pharmaceuticals start peddling a vaccine we will have the same cyclical process that we have now with Flu.    Ever wondered why Flu is seasonal?   Do you think flu viruses pack their bags in summer and go on their holidays and then come back with a vengeance over winter?  Yep perhaps that's a possibility.  Or maybe it's because they vaccinate kids with LIVE flu virus and they go running around oblivious to hygiene standards and spreading and shedding the virus for days afterward thereby ensuring that everyone else gets flu and creates a lovely yearly market for the adult flu vaccines !!

 

COVID-19 I predict will be no different.  It will become the latest $billion dollar money making business in no time at all.  They will  likely also use it as an excuse to make vaccines mandatory.

 

Anyway, the point is that even if you make the Diamond Princess a ghost ship for a week and clear it of bugs, you will just get some passenger or crew member walk back on board with it completely unwittingly during that 14 day incubation period, having no clue they have the virus and that they are spreading it to everyone else.

 

The net result is that cruising is pretty much knackered in perpetuity from this point onward.  If the industry is going to have any chance of surviving at all then it is going to have to make some agreement with the CDC and WHO to change how they manage outbreaks of COVID-19 when they happen.   Quarantining all passengers in their cabins on "death ships" is simply not going to be acceptable every time it happens.

 

We already live with Influenza.

 

When we get Flu on-board we don't go locking everyone up in their cabins.  We have to move toward a situation where the same is true for COVID-19.   When someone gets it you have to give everyone else the choice to leave the ship and fly home or to stay on-board as a free passenger and take their chances.

 

If they don't do this the cruising industry is simply finished.

 

It is not the threat of catching the virus that is of prime concern, it is the forced security and medical protocols that currently surround COVID-19 that are the issue.  Until that situation changes I won't be cruising again simple as.

 

 

Boy you really have it bad.  The more infectious a virus is the shorter time it generally can live outside a host.  So cold viruses are bad parallels - flu viruses are more on point.  Stomach viruses, which corona isn't, have slightly longer lifespans outside a host.

 

And yes, if someone with the virus walks onto the Diamond Princess after it is left completely isolated there could be a problem.  But no more so than ANY ship that an infected person walks onto.  There is no special or additional risk with the Diamond Princess because of the recent quarantine.

 

Which was the actual point.

 

 

[crystalspin]

Flu vaccines in the United States contain either killed virus or attenuated viruses i.e. weakened by a variety of mechanisms. Either way their  proteins stimulate antibodies. In neither case can they give you the flu nor do they make you "catching". 

 

The fact that some people still get sick (that may or may not even be influenza -- lots of people call any infection "the Flu" including the Common Cold, a coronavirus) after getting their flu shot is that every variety of the flu is not covered by any year's vaccine. The types to be immunized against are determined by what is prevalent in some early onset regions. Sometimes other types take advantage of the shot being effective, leaving a sort of vacuum, and giving weaker strains a chance to make us sick! (This is called antigenic shift or drift.)

[littlecruise]

On 2/17/2020 at 6:36 AM, drsheryl said:

I'm debating cancelling my cruise.  So far, I have only paid a $500 deposit.  I have a solo cabin booked.  I don't want to be quarantined for 2 wks in a solo cabin.  The virus seems to be spreading even with the quarantine.  My flights are booked for Rome.  I can just do an Italy trip.  Thoughts?

The virus does not come the ship it comes from people.  On land you may be in a hotel or restaurant near someone with (a virus).  I just heard on the news 2 days ago that all ready 1500 people have died in the USA from the flu this flu season.  Last years flu season it was reported over 12,000 people died from the flu. We don't stay in our homes in the USA during the flu season.  Travel but be careful, wash hand often.  I leaving in 2 weeks on a cruise and have one planned for next fall. No plans to cancel either.

[momofmeg]

19 hours ago, Viv0828 said:

 

not everyone knows how to do research.

and some of the news stories are misleading or proven inaccurate at a later date.

just be careful!

then teach then if it is your family or friends. I am 65 years old and I can and I am not that smart. If I can learn anyone can learn.

[Charles4515]

The virus is spreading geographically but it appears that recoveries are now outnumbering new cases. 

[ontheweb]

37 minutes ago, momofmeg said:

They learned from the Diamond Princess that  a cruise ship is not a good place to quarantine people.  Doing that spread the virus instead of the opposite.That will not be repeated. Yes, you could be quarantined if exposed on a cruise but it would be off ship.

Yes, that has become obvious that quarantine on a cruise ship with a crew that should be quarantined instead of serving food to the passengers does not work. But the question remains where do you do the quarantine. They ended up on the ship because Japan would not take them. I started another thread where the locals did not want the quarantined passengers from the military bases coming to their medical facilities, and a federal judge agreed with them. So where do you do an effective quarantine?

[momofmeg]

29 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, that has become obvious that quarantine on a cruise ship with a crew that should be quarantined instead of serving food to the passengers does not work. But the question remains where do you do the quarantine. They ended up on the ship because Japan would not take them. I started another thread where the locals did not want the quarantined passengers from the military bases coming to their medical facilities, and a federal judge agreed with them. So where do you do an effective quarantine?

 People are selfish aren't they?  Until it is them or their family member anyway. Then they change their tune. The reality is when Japan rejected them their home countries should have gotten them sooner. In the USA there are hospitals  that were equipped for Ebola which had a much higher death rate. Emory in Atlanta was one of them. I live only 30 miles outside of Atlanta but I would not begrudge an other Americans getting treatment there. However I do remember many were upset they were at Emory and people were terrified around here. However, guess what no one contacted Ebola from those patients.  Emory got them  well too BTW. They did not die like those left in Africa did.

 

To be honest, right now I would be more afraid of going to Italy and Korea  than taking a cruise. I would not be surprised if it  happened here too but I doubt  the outbreak in Italy and Korea came  from that Princess ship as they   are continuing to quarantine all of them.  I am more worried about the ones they do not know about spreading it.

[Viv0828]

22 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Sorry, I had you confused with momofmeg.  You have my apologies.

 

3 hours ago, momofmeg said:

then teach then if it is your family or friends. I am 65 years old and I can and I am not that smart. If I can learn anyone can learn.

 

you can inform yourself all you want - problem is what you learned yesterday might become totally innacurate today. it takes a lot of time and effort to try and ferret out accurate info.

[momofmeg]

52 minutes ago, Viv0828 said:

 

 

you can inform yourself all you want - problem is what you learned yesterday might become totally innacurate today. it takes a lot of time and effort to try and ferret out accurate info.

Look it is your decision if you take a cruise or go to Italy or go to Korea or go to China or somewhere else that  we find out there is a bad infection  Which as you say changes day to day.   I guess you can wall your self into your home and never leave your home if you so choose. but guess what you will still die of something one day.  Goodbye.

[Viv0828]

12 minutes ago, momofmeg said:

Look it is your decision if you take a cruise or go to Italy or go to Korea or go to China or somewhere else that  we find out there is a bad infection  Which as you say changes day to day.   I guess you can wall your self into your home and never leave your home if you so choose. but guess what you will still die of something one day.  Goodbye.

 

we all will die one day as you said - but hopefully not at 50 or 60. we all need to make decisions we can live with. good luck!

[momofmeg]

13 minutes ago, momofmeg said:

Look it is your decision if you take a cruise or go to Italy or go to Korea or go to China or somewhere else that  we find out there is a bad infection  Which as you say changes day to day.   I guess you can wall your self into your home and never leave your home if you so choose. but guess what you will still die of something one day.  Goodbye.

BTW if you go back and look at my original post and NOT the person that replied to me you will SEE I was replying to another person  who feared the Diamond Princess would no be properly cleaned up and that the ship would be renamed to fool perspective passengers. I said  by being here on  cruisecritic  we would know  that and be informed. That it was good to do research.

 

One person replied most people  cruising did not know about cruisecritic and I already said I only meant us here  WE are protected. and if I someone not internet savvy could find cruise critic I felt most could. That is all  I meant.

 

Whether I am smart in booking a cruise or not I do  not know.  but it is my decision. You make yours. 

Honestly it seems to me the virus is out now and I don't think Italy or South Korea can be traced back the Diamond Princess. If it is out in those 2 countries it will soon be out in their bordering countries.  They have failed to contain it. It is only a matter of time before it is out everywhere. quarantine or not.

 

 

 

[momofmeg]

6 minutes ago, That sinking feeling said:

Not going on a cruise isn't going to save you. After reading your post I think you are doomed anyway.

 

Doomed.

 Yes it is out. Now that it is bad in Italy, who knows? We could catch at the grocery store. All it would take is one person who was there a week ago grocery shopping  back home as you have the virus a couple of weeks before you display symptoms.    My cruise is not until the end of May. Whose to say there is not a bad outbreak here before then.

[KnowTheScore]

10 hours ago, momofmeg said:

They learned from the Diamond Princess that  a cruise ship is not a good place to quarantine people.  Doing that spread the virus instead of the opposite.That will not be repeated. Yes, you could be quarantined if exposed on a cruise but it would be off ship.

 

 

That unfortunately would add a whole new dimension for people in terms of their choice of initeraries.

 

Instead of thinking, where in the world would I most like to visit,

 

they will instead be thinking, where in the world would I most NOT want to be sent off to, to be quarantined?

 

Would I want to be marched off a ship in Morocco and quarantined there for 2 weeks?  Errr no thanks

 

Turkey? Africa? China? Japan? Korea?   Nope no thanks

 

and so on.

 

You'll end up struggling to fill cruises with certain destinations and people will instead favour places nearer to home where they feel that there will be decent medical treatment and where UK nationals will be reasonably treated.

 

No that whole situation just isn't going to fly going forward.  It won't do.

 

We have to get to a situation where COVID-19 itself is not treated like bubonic plague and where it is instead treated like ordinary cold/Flu.  It is the CDC and WHO and the like who are currently forcing the world to respond to virus cases in the way that is currently happening.   That simply can not continue, otherwise the cruise industry and many other travel and other businesses are simply finished.

 

 

[David_Dian]

On 2/17/2020 at 7:36 AM, drsheryl said:

I'm debating cancelling my cruise.  So far, I have only paid a $500 deposit.  I have a solo cabin booked.  I don't want to be quarantined for 2 wks in a solo cabin.  The virus seems to be spreading even with the quarantine.  My flights are booked for Rome.  I can just do an Italy trip.  Thoughts?

 

I assume you are watching the news? There are outbreaks in Italy and they are restricting travel. I feel its bound to get worse before it gets better since its just started there apparently. Personally I would not go to Italy now.

[Charles4515]

12 minutes ago, David_Dian said:

 

I assume you are watching the news? There are outbreaks in Italy and they are restricting travel. I feel its bound to get worse before it gets better since its just started there apparently. Personally I would not go to Italy now.

My neighbors were supposed to be going to Italy this week on a month long land vacation. They had paid up flights. They decided not to go. I think that was prudent. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Charles4515