Cruises To Nowhere

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Saab4444 said:

It is because foreign flagged vessels always have to stop at a foreign port before returning to the US. A US flagged cruise ship could do cruises to nowhere or only between US ports. US flagged ferries can do it. US flagged cargo ships can do it. Suitable crew visas will be obtained by the shipping company accordingly. And for all cruise ships that just stop at any US port all crew needs US Visa anyway.     

As others have noted, the PVSA was revised a few years back to allow cruises to nowhere, and they are still legal under the PVSA.  What has changed is that CBP has ruled that while crew on foreign flag cruise ships that call in US ports need a crew visa (C1/D1 depending on whether they are joining/leaving in the US or not), crew on a foreign flag vessel doing cruises to nowhere would need a H1-B work visa.  The H1 work visa is more difficult to obtain, costs more, and has more financial and legal responsibilities placed on the "sponsor" (cruise line).  The cost for a cruise line to get these visas for a thousand crew for one or two voyages (sometimes separated by months) would not be cost effective.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, publicpersona said:

 

Of course it does. What you are saying regarding immigration may also be true (I know nothing about that), but PVSA specifically applies to this conversation.

 

PVSA has many times in the past been waived in response to unusual circumstances. Would waiving PVSA for a while be part of what we are hearing about helping the cruise industry stay afloat? Maybe. I don't know. Nobody does.

Just to clarify.  What the PVSA says is that, if there is only one port on the itinerary (embarkation/debarkation port), then the cruise is a "cruise to nowhere", and allowed.  However, if there are two or more ports, then one of the ports has to be a foreign port.  The PVSA is waived in cases "beyond the ship's control", i.e. in cases where weather prohibits a foreign port call, or a mechanical issue prohibits a foreign port call.  The cruise lines are not allowed to advertise or sell a cruise that would violate the PVSA, and waivers could not be granted in these circumstances, since the advertised itinerary would violate the Act.  The only emergency waivers that can be granted to the PVSA are for national defense reasons.

[MJSailors]

Bill 5333

I am certain that you have heard of social distancing ( 6 feet distance between people, gatherings limited to 10 people) and the idea that containment may hinder the spread of Corona virus?

How would that be accomplished on a cruise ship, wether it was sailing to destinations or going nowhere?

 

[sparks1093]

18 hours ago, TravelerThom said:

chengkp75 is perhaps the most knowledgeable individual on these boards, and I believe what he says. HOWEVER I think you are misinterpreting him if you are implying that mass market cruise ship can cruise to nowhere. 
The ruling against cruises-to-nowhere a few years ago was that since the ship had not visited a foreign port all crew members on such cruises had to be eligible to legally work in the US (ie US citizen, US Green Card holder or holder of a US WORK visa). Clearly this is not the case for any non-US flagged cruise vessel, thereby effectively ending cruises-to-nowhere. 

Cruise lines absolutely may offer cruises to nowhere...if they apply for and pay for the different visa that is required for all of the crew members. The visas they have now don't allow them to work in the US and they are considered to be in transit when in a US port (I can't remember what visa class they have). In order for a cruise line to offer a cruise to nowhere the crew members need a visa that allows them to work in the US and those visas are harder to get and are more costly. (ETA- should have looked at page 2 before responding since chengkp75 has provided the answer.)

Edited March 18, 2020 by sparks1093

[lifes-a-beach]

41 minutes ago, irzero said:

 

So dramatic.

 

under 60 and in good health and you are more likely die on the way to the cruise than on it. 

True but isn’t this about containing the spread of the virus, not so much about eliminating every death?  Under 60 and in good health ( as I am) are equally susceptible to contract the virus, thus becoming potentially equally participant in its spread.  While I don’t share the opinion that every cruise line doesn’t care about the health and safety of their passengers (customers), I do believe it’s my responsibility to take care of myself as well as follow the CDC guidelines for prevention of the spread to the degree that I am able.  For me it’s just that simple; pay attention and follow the CDC guidelines.  Not what CNN or Fox News says, not what’s printed in this or that newspaper or posted on this or that website.  I used to work with explosives and one of my very first mentors who taught me much of what I know told me in response to a question I asked, “Just follow the instructions!”.  I have applied that to much of life with pretty good success.  I think I’ll keep doing it.  

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, irzero said:

 

So dramatic.

 

under 60 and in good health and you are more likely die on the way to the cruise than on it. 

 

Trusting them with your life is a fools errand 

[LMaxwell]

On 3/17/2020 at 8:39 AM, rtazz17 said:

Please stop adding to hysteria. Pointless.......look out for yourself.

Woop woop Cruise Critic Police woop woop 

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, irzero said:

You realise that your own immune system is what kills you with the virus? Also your own immune system is what cures you?

So your life is in your own hands. You are going to get this virus whether you like it or not. May as well catch it in the sun with a beer in hand.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

 

That sounds nice.  I can sit in the sun at home and not run risk of infecting over. 

 

This isn't about YOU.  It isn't about ME.  

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, irzero said:

You are going to get it. The number of infected Americans is in the millions.



Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

Can you provide a reference indicating this?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

[time4u2go]

6 minutes ago, irzero said:

You have 50% more deaths than the uk already. I know how many people I know who are sick currently or have now recovered. It's been global since november and you only just started testing.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

You made a very strong statement: "The number of infected Americans is in the millions."

 

I'll ask again...do you have a reference for this?  I'm pretty sure we already know the answer.

Edited March 18, 2020 by time4u2go

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Trusting them with your life is a fools errand 

And yet you continue to cruise?

[Hoopster95]

10 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

You made a very strong statement: "The number of infected Americans is in the millions."

 

I'll ask again...do you have a reference for this?  I'm pretty sure we already know the answer.

 

I'll stand up alongside irzero here...

 

your proof is in China - 205,000 confirmed cases / 8,300 deaths = 4%

and also Italy - hovering at about 8% death to confirmed contraction of the virus.

how many tests have been confirmed in the USA? And how many deaths have there been? 7300 / 116 = 1.6%

So what happens when they test 1,000,000 Americans instead of only 7,300?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/worldwide-coronavirus-cases-top-200000-for-the-first-time.html

 

"The total number of cases now stands at 201,436 as of 7:30 a.m. ET on Wednesday, according to data compiled by John Hopkins.

The total number of infections across the world hovered around 100,000 on March 6, the WHO’s data shows."

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Hoopster95

[time4u2go]

12 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

I'll stand up alongside irzero here...

 

your proof is in China - 205,000 confirmed cases / 8,300 deaths = 4%

and also Italy - hovering at about 8% death to confirmed contraction of the virus.

how many tests have been confirmed in the USA? And how many deaths have there been? 7300 / 116 = 1.6%

So what happens when they test 1,000,000 Americans instead of only 7,300?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/worldwide-coronavirus-cases-top-200000-for-the-first-time.html

 

"The total number of cases now stands at 201,436 as of 7:30 a.m. ET on Wednesday, according to data compiled by John Hopkins.

The total number of infections across the world hovered around 100,000 on March 6, the WHO’s data shows."

 

 

I'm trying to figure out how anything you stated above means that "The number of infected Americans is in the millions."  The population of China is about 4 times that of the U. S., and China has 205,000 cases while the U. S. has millions?

[time4u2go]

19 minutes ago, irzero said:

That proof doesnt exist but it doesnt mean I'm wrong.

It's in every corner of the globe

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

No kidding.

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, irzero said:

UK just released these figures. Roughly 5% of all tests positive out of 56,000 tests.

 

Given that 85% get mild or no symptoms and never get tested then the number of passive infections could and is likely to be huge. 

 

Everyone i know at the moment has a dry cough so unless there is a parallel infection of something else id say its pretty widespread. 

 

 

 

 

The trouble is you made a statement of fact versus expressing an opinion. If you had said "I would guess that the number of infected Americans is in the millions" it would have been more accurate.

[sparks1093]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And yet you continue to cruise?

Exactly, if we cruise at all it means that we trust the cruise lines with our lives, even without a pandemic.

[Hoopster95]

11 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

I'm trying to figure out how anything you stated above means that "The number of infected Americans is in the millions."  The population of China is about 4 times that of the U. S., and China has 205,000 cases while the U. S. has millions?

 

I did not say this whatsoever. Go back and read my post word for word. And read again... because you are making up your own wording in your mind in order to support your own opinion.

[time4u2go]

10 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

I did not say this whatsoever. Go back and read my post word for word. And read again... because you are making up your own wording in your mind in order to support your own opinion.

Fair enough, you did not say that.  You said "I'll stand up alongside irzero here...".  Since irzero had said "The number of infected Americans is in the millions", I thought you were agreeing with that statement.  I stand corrected.

[time4u2go]

24 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

The trouble is you made a statement of fact versus expressing an opinion. If you had said "I would guess that the number of infected Americans is in the millions" it would have been more accurate.

Exactly!  Thank you!

[Hoopster95]

3 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Fair enough, you did not say that.  You said "I'll stand up alongside irzero here...".  Since irzero had said "The number of infected Americans is in the millions", I thought you were agreeing with that statement.  I stand corrected.

 

No worries.

I really really really truly and sincerely hope I'm wrong with my opinion of how I see things coming over the weeks ahead.

[time4u2go]

13 minutes ago, irzero said:

 

So UK is 5% infection rate of tests carried out SO FAR! 65% show no symptoms or very mild and recover in 4-5 days so never got or will get tested.

 

Every state in america has confirmed tests after you closed the borders! which means it was already circulating through the population. 

 

there is 330 million people in the USA which means all you would need is 0.3% to have been infected or previously been infected since November 2019 when it was first confirmed.

 

You literally didnt start testing until 2 weeks ago. Tip ... of... iceberg...

Uh...I was responding to Hoopster95.

[fred30]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And yet you continue to cruise?

 

Chief,

I see your have over 17,000 post.  That is a lot of expert advice you have given us.   I started reading your post way back with the Concordia.  You would explain the reasons behind the decisions that were being made with the recovery of the ship in addition to a lot of the legal matters that were going on just as you are still doing with other topics. 

When I am looking through threads I always stop and read your post hoping to learn something new and knowing it will be accurate information.

It is great to have a qualified expert on this forum.   From some of the responses I know many others feel the same way.

 

Thank you.

 

[sparks1093]

46 minutes ago, irzero said:

 

So UK is 5% infection rate of tests carried out SO FAR! 65% show no symptoms or very mild and recover in 4-5 days so never got or will get tested.

 

Every state in america has confirmed tests after you closed the borders! which means it was already circulating through the population. 

 

there is 330 million people in the USA which means all you would need is 0.3% to have been infected or previously been infected since November 2019 when it was first confirmed.

 

You literally didnt start testing until 2 weeks ago. Tip ... of... iceberg...

And all of that would lead one to reasonably conclude that the infection rate in America could be in the millions, but as of right now that's just considered opinion- there is no official source that is saying that. That is the difference between statements of fact and statements of opinion.

[time4u2go]

8 minutes ago, irzero said:

 

That makes my comment invalid? You said its unlikely a million infected in the USA...

 

USA now has 3x more confirmed infections than the UK at 7000+ You have been testing barely a week and it takes 2 days to turn around a test... 

We're still waiting for you to provide a link to anything (other than your own imagination) that indicates that "millions" in the U. S. have the virus.

Edited March 18, 2020 by time4u2go

[SRF]

As has been mentioned a couple of times, the reported cases are only those who are sick enough to seek medical attention.

 

Corona viruses are what give us the common cold.  So it is very likely that a LOT of people have had COVID 19, and only had a mild or medium cold, and never sought medical treatment.

 

And even out of those that are counted, at last look, about 93% of the cases are still reported as Mild.