P&O Cruisers - What are things like where YOU are?

[kalos]

3 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I can't find an answer either. My gut feeling is that although you physically reside in a T3 area, you to all intents and purposes "live' in a T2 area, and therefore I would have the pub lunch. 

What people should not do, is drive 50 miles from a T3 area to find a pub.

 

That would be how I see it too Wowzz but the original question was "what would we do"

If we just fancied a meal ? No mention of essential travel work etc .

It's obvious that if I lived in a house sat 100 yards away from a village and in the other direction

was nothing for miles then it's a case of "Common Sense To The Rescue"

An odd house or two (Not a massive housing estate) I would expect to be adopted into

the village regardless of Tier level .  The rules do say avoid travel do they not ?

Nor would I expect someone working in a different tier Zone to be barred from having meals 

whilst working away or needing a meal, again pure common sense .

 

[Selbourne]

7 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Whether the regulations as currently drawn are perfect, useless, or somewhere in between (I expect they are somewhere in between) my contention is that this isn’t some kind of game, where we use our wits and debating skills to get around them.  This really is a matter of life and death - or it is likely to be for some of us, our neighbours, our family, our community.

We should always remember that when considering whether to show how clever we are/stupid HMG is

 

The other side of the coin is the continuation of the economic base of the country.  That is way, way above my pay grade, so I’ll leave others to discuss 

I agree with your sentiments and that was certainly not my intention. It’s a real life situation that we face. When we are in our local town next week I know that we can shop there but I am genuinely unsure whether or not we can legally have a pub lunch there!

[grapau27]

42f but feels mild.

We have got McDonald's breakfast and coffee and sitting looking out to sea.

Graham.

[Eddie99]

That sounds like good news Graham - though I’ll happily pass on the McDonalds breakfast.  I haven’t had anything from them since my kids were teenagers, so maybe 25-30 years.  Maybe I’m missing something! 🙂

[zap99]

53 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

That’s exactly my point. We are quite literally 100 yards from tier 2 and only use the towns, pubs etc that are in tier 2, as they are far closer to us than those in tier 3. Are we allowed to continue to use the shops but not the pubs next door?

You could look through the window of the coffee shop. Perhaps you could ask a friend to pop in and buy you a takeaway sandwich. I bet nobody who lives in tier 3 would buy a tier 2 sandwich😁.Mentioning the demon drink starts a whole new question 

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, kalos said:

 

I agree with you it throws up more questions that have vague rules or answers .

Reading through some of the rules.. Traveling to an airport   ..

The transport secretary, Grant Shapp's  has said tier 3 residents would be able to go abroad.

 He said holidays would be allowed abroad – “if you're going straight to an airport”.

Wonderful !  Now how does that work lets say for someone traveling from Glasgow to 

Manchester Airport as a lot of our friends north of the border do?

It sounds like he is saying no comfort breaks en route .

Looking at the new boundaries I suppose some people living in Southampton could 

be tempted to jump on a Red Funnel over to the" Island of near normality" and have a few 

beers in peace ,if there is no checks in place .

Like you say we are all in agreement about what we would do and you are spot on with your 

assessment of human nature. A lot will do what suits their needs and not for the good of all .

It is crazy.

You can travel abroad if you are in a Tier 3 area but you can't stay overnight in a hotel in a Tier 2 area in England.

Then they say you can have a 5 day jolly at Xmas.

I'm totally lost for words.

Graham.

[grapau27]

47 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

In a few weeks time, I’m booked to go on a coach day trip to view the Christmas lights at some gardens in East Sussex. I booked this coach trip at the start of the year, as there was a discount for early booking.

 

Anyway, the gardens are in tier 2, and I live in Medway, which is tier 3.

 

I am hoping that the coach company do the right and decent thing and cancel the tour, as we can’t travel out of tier 3 for non essential, leisure purposes.

 

However, if they don’t cancel, I will cancel, even if I lose the money I paid, because I know it’s the right thing to do and that the rules apply to me - I’m not an exception.

 

This is also why the Cummings thing will never go away. An influential person thought he was an exception to the rules, and Johnson backed him up.  Johnson lost the moral authority to ask us to abide by the rules.

 

I abide by the rules because I want to do my best in the community effort to reduce the spread of the virus - not because Johnson has told me to do it. 

Perfect response.

Sorry about your coach trip.

[Ardennais]

42 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Nonsense. Please re-read my post. I did NOT say that we were considering “casually popping over to a tier 2 area”, nor did I say, or even imply, “stuff any rules”. They are entirely your words and your incorrect interpretation. You are picking a fight in an empty room I’m afraid. I deliberately only used the pub lunch example because I knew that everyone would say ‘no’. Fair enough. I quite expected that, as in that context it would be the right answer. Having had that response, it was then my intention to put the ‘real life’ scenario, that we actually shop and eat out ‘locally’ which happens to be tier 2. Not so clear cut then, is it? I am retired, so don’t work, but used that as yet a further illustration.  I am merely trying to illustrate the challenges of the proposed system which, thankfully, others get. Most people probably live, work, shop and eat out within their ‘home’ county, so it’s all very clear cut. When some or all of those things happen in a different tiered area it becomes very complicated. 

Then why on earth didn’t you put the real life scenario in your original post?   The majority of responses also said No so it wasn’t just my interpretation. I totally ‘get’  how it must be when you live by a border living close to a county border myself. At one time, I had to leave this county, drive through another to get to my place of work which was in yet another county. 
So, a question from me - do you think that it would be better to discard the tier system n England and treat every area the same to avoid the confusions/temptations which are all too evident? The First Minister in Wales has already said that any further restrictions in Wales would most likely be imposed on a Wales-wide basis. 

[zap99]

54 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I agree with your sentiments and that was certainly not my intention. It’s a real life situation that we face. When we are in our local town next week I know that we can shop there but I am genuinely unsure whether or not we can legally have a pub lunch there!

We are in tier 2 and have booked restaurants for Wednesday and Sunday. Gastro pubs really. What would you normally have ?, I'll order that and you can join us for a virtual meal. 🤣

[DamianG]

16 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

I’m a woose and a rule follower so in all honestly, I would not do it.

 

You're not a woose, you're a compliant, responsible person (like me). I wish there were more in the UK. 

[kalos]

 

17 hours ago, Selbourne said:

What would you do? (honest answers only).....

 

 Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them?

 

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Again, you miss the point. I deliberately used that as an example,  knowing that it would get that response. 

 

28 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

Then why on earth didn’t you put the real life scenario in your original post?   The majority of responses also said No so it wasn’t just my interpretation.

 

I was thinking the same  Ardennais  ?   

[grapau27]

9 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same  Ardennais  ?   

The problem is reading the gov website the rules are fluffy and open to interpretation.

It doesn't say illegal just advice with exceptions.

They say following scientific advice so scientists are scapegoats if it is not right.

Then it's Have a Xmas Jolly but use your own judgement so in January if there is a spike the onus and guilt is on the people who mixed during Xmas.

Leadership????

 

[Bloodaxe]

We are in rural North Yorkshire in level 2 but are surrounded by counties in level 3.

York city is also in level 2, pretty sure that we will be visited by our neighbors, some for work but others shopping and leasure.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Bloodaxe
Add info

[grapau27]

7 minutes ago, Bloodaxe said:

We are in rural North Yorkshire in level 2 but are surrounded by counties in level 3.

York city is also in level 2, pretty sure that we will be visited by our neighbors, some for work but others for pleasure.

We were booked for a night near York next week but have had to rearrange because we are in Tier 3.

I could claim justifiably it is for work as I have calls in N Yorkshire and could stay overnight but Pauline couldn't.

Rules are ridiculous.

After 3 week lockdown we are going into Tier 3 from Tier 2 ? even though cases have halved in our area.

Graham.

[kalos]

                               

                                           A moment for us to reflect upon 

 

          

 

As I am sitting here this afternoon I am reflecting back on this past week.

My first shift of three, I got to work to find out I was being floated to the covid unit. Okay. Deep breath. Nothing I haven’t already been through.

As I got to the unit, you could feel a shift in the energy that I have not felt for a few months now. I grabbed my PPE, found my assignment and without hesitation the charge nurse saw me and said your patient in room ** is dying. Just like that.

 

These nurses see this every day and covid has normalized this for some. I had such a pit in my stomach knowing that out of my five patients one could die with just me by their side that night. These patients are scared. As a nurse, there is no worse feeling than feeling hopeless when you have done all you can do & have your patient tell you all they want now is for it to be over so they can go home.

After an extremely long night, I went to the bathroom and cried for the first time in my year of nursing. I cried because I know so many people that are no longer taking masking and social distancing seriously. I cried because this illness is affecting those of all age groups. I cried because covid isn’t just getting worse, it already is worse. We are seeing a spike in cases now just as bad as we did in March. The people were applauding healthcare workers a few months ago and now I see those same people saying it’s okay to get together in groups for the holidays. I know it isn’t easy not seeing your family and loved ones especially this time of year, but I can assure you it won’t be any easier from a hospital room with very little other human contact. On behalf of healthcare workers, we can’t fight this alone. We need our communities to come together and put the greater good first.

We are your nurses. We are fighting but we are tired. Please do your part and we will do ours 

 

[Dermotsgirl]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

Perfect response.

Sorry about your coach trip.

I booked 6 coach trips at the start of the year - and have been on two of them!

 

At the moment things are looking bad in my area - infections still rising and hospitals are feeling the strain.  With that as a backdrop, I'm feeling that I don't really want to go anywhere, so, to be honest I'm not too sad that either the coach company will cancel or I will cancel.

 

During the first lockdown, we didn't have local information, and as the weather was good, I didn't feel as enclosed as I do now.  Now we know too much, and I'm getting a bunker mentality, and apart from my daily walk, don't really feel  like going anywhere.  It doesn't seem healthy, but there's nothing much that can be done about it - just got to wait until things improve.

 

I will have to go out next week and the week after. My hairdresser discovered she could open the shop on 2nd December, so I've been given one of the 'extra' appointments. I am pleased, as it will mean my husband won't have to cut my hair!  Also, I've just booked my flu jab by phoning the nearest Boots branch, for the 7th December. 

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

It is crazy.

You can travel abroad if you are in a Tier 3 area but you can't stay overnight in a hotel in a Tier 2 area in England.

Then they say you can have a 5 day jolly at Xmas.

I'm totally lost for words.

Graham.

You can’t travel abroad here if you live in tier 3 or 4 (which is most of the central belt where the 2 main airports are). While you can perfectly legally book a holiday abroad and fly, in tiers 3 and 4 you can’t legally drive to the airport. Travel out with a council boundary is against the law for all but very, very limited purposes. There will always be anomalies and this one was highlighted at FMs questions.

 

But it gets worse. If you think anything in the English system is confusing then try living here. Headline in the news papers, “4 national agreement for Christmas”. Reality, Scotgov have chipped away at it bit by bit, maximum 8 people, no socialising in other levels once you are there, can’t visit hospitality or book accommodation in the new bubble etc.

 

And the cherry on the cake is being told what cutlery to use at Christmas dinner ( yes really).

 

Hopefully it saves a few more infections or lives but life does all feel a bit crazy.

[Son of Anarchy]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

It is crazy.

You can travel abroad if you are in a Tier 3 area but you can't stay overnight in a hotel in a Tier 2 area in England.

Then they say you can have a 5 day jolly at Xmas.

I'm totally lost for words.

Graham.

And presumably when you get to the Tier 2 airport, if you live in a Tier 3 area, you can't use the airside bars/eateries while non Tier 3 residants can!  It certainly is crazy.  Must admit though, I don't know whether airport bars and eateries will open post lockdown.

[grapau27]

15 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

You can’t travel abroad here if you live in tier 3 or 4 (which is most of the central belt where the 2 main airports are). While you can perfectly legally book a holiday abroad and fly, in tiers 3 and 4 you can’t legally drive to the airport. Travel out with a council boundary is against the law for all but very, very limited purposes. There will always be anomalies and this one was highlighted at FMs questions.

 

But it gets worse. If you think anything in the English system is confusing then try living here. Headline in the news papers, “4 national agreement for Christmas”. Reality, Scotgov have chipped away at it bit by bit, maximum 8 people, no socialising in other levels once you are there, can’t visit hospitality or book accommodation in the new bubble etc.

 

And the cherry on the cake is being told what cutlery to use at Christmas dinner ( yes really).

 

Hopefully it saves a few more infections or lives but life does all feel a bit crazy.

I didn't realise it could get that complicated up in Scotland.

I thought our lot were crazy.

[Eglesbrech]

6 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

And presumably when you get to the Tier 2 airport, if you live in a Tier 3 area, you can't use the airside bars/eateries while non Tier 3 residants can!  It certainly is crazy.  Must admit though, I don't know whether airport bars and eateries will open post lockdown.

Airside is not affected by lockdown as they are technically not in the U.K.. more likely to be affected by most people’s disinclination to travel in the short term.

[pete14]

2 hours ago, Eddie99 said:

That sounds like good news Graham - though I’ll happily pass on the McDonalds breakfast.  I haven’t had anything from them since my kids were teenagers, so maybe 25-30 years.  Maybe I’m missing something! 🙂

I think you are missing something. Their breakfasts are excellent in my opinion. Sausage and Egg McMuffin with coffee provides a good start to the day although I have to admit, it is a rare treat.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, grapau27 said:

I didn't realise it could get that complicated up in Scotland.

I thought our lot were crazy.

I think we win the crazy contest on the basis of the cutlery advice. We also have very clear instructions on not passing around the roast potatoes.

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, pete14 said:

I think you are missing something. Their breakfasts are excellent in my opinion. Sausage and Egg McMuffin with coffee provides a good start to the day although I have to admit, it is a rare treat.

👍That's what I had and Pauline had a toasted muffin with butter and jam.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, kalos said:

 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same  Ardennais  ?   

 

1 hour ago, Ardennais said:

Then why on earth didn’t you put the real life scenario in your original post?   The majority of responses also said No so it wasn’t just my interpretation. I totally ‘get’  how it must be when you live by a border living close to a county border myself. At one time, I had to leave this county, drive through another to get to my place of work which was in yet another county. 
So, a question from me - do you think that it would be better to discard the tier system n England and treat every area the same to avoid the confusions/temptations which are all too evident? The First Minister in Wales has already said that any further restrictions in Wales would most likely be imposed on a Wales-wide basis. 

I accept that I could have possibly phrased my original post a little better but, in my defence, I did NOT say that we were going to do it, nor did I ever say that we would disobey the rules. 1+1=2, not 3! It was a genuine question, not a statement of intent. The problem, as I see it, is that even if you are the type that obeys the rules (as we have done religiously from the start of this) it is difficult to understand them at times and, as Graham and others have pointed out, difficult to follow the logic of them. The responses to my question have highlighted that perfectly. The thought that someone might go to their local town for a pub lunch causes outrage. But if you call into a shop and then have a pub lunch next door that might be deemed OK under common sense. And that was my point. Will people really adhere to those rules when they don’t stand up to scrutiny? 
 

As for the question would I scrap tiers, I think there’s a genuine case for that, as a lot of MP’s are now saying. I am a great believer in taking responsibility for your own actions and managing your own risks.  All shops, pubs, restaurants etc are now Covid secure. Everywhere we have been we have felt safe. My wife has a neurological condition and I am an over 50’s male carrying too much weight! We therefore decided to shield more than the law required us to, as we considered ourselves to be higher risk. We took that decision without a law. It was common sense. Our daughters are both healthy and in their 20’s. Their risks from the disease are negligible. Should their lives be impacted as much as ours currently are? I would say no. Whatever rules are in place, there will always be groups of idiots who have parties or dance in the streets etc. They probably account for far less than 1 percent of the population. Should the other 99% plus be subject to restrictions because of these idiots, even though they will disregard those restrictions and behave like idiots anyway? With the stage we are at with this pandemic now, not least with the economy, I would probably favour national restrictions on those activities that are deemed the most ‘risky’ and then leave it to people to take additional precautions if they feel that, due to age or other factors, they are too risky for them. Just because you ‘can’ do something doesn’t mean that you ‘have’ to. I’m not sure that the nanny state approach is the right one, but I also appreciate that some people are either incapable or unwilling (or both) to exercise common sense so, as a result, we end up where we are! 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Selbourne

[purplesea]

I've just given up!! I've stayed home from the beginning and only gone out when I've had to.