NCL Some Hope...Maybe

[npcl]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

However, in many cases the port fees do not cover the cost of the services and infrastructure the cruise ships require.

It is one of the reasons there was kind of a mini-revolt by a couple of the caribbean islands this past year when they awarded the contracts for port operations to another firm, instead of the consortium of the 3 major cruiselines (CCL, RCL and NCLH) who put together a joint venture to bid on the ports.  CCL went so far as to call one of them anti-cruise ship and stop port calls after the prime minister actually said that the reason for the award was that the port fees do not cover the islands cost in supplying the port services to cruise ships.

[beerman2]

19 minutes ago, npcl said:

It is one of the reasons there was kind of a mini-revolt by a couple of the caribbean islands this past year when they awarded the contracts for port operations to another firm, instead of the consortium of the 3 major cruiselines (CCL, RCL and NCLH) who put together a joint venture to bid on the ports.  CCL went so far as to call one of them anti-cruise ship and stop port calls after the prime minister actually said that the reason for the award was that the port fees do not cover the islands cost in supplying the port services to cruise ships.

Makes you wonder about the PM. You raise port fee cost to break even and your merchants can still profit.

 

Sometimes leaders overthink what is best for the majority.

[rockfsh]

Cruise lines my be left out of the bail out.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-bailout-could-exclude-carnival-norwegian-royal-caribbean-cruise-lines.html

[egurbi]

3 minutes ago, rockfsh said:

Cruise lines my be left out of the bail out.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-bailout-could-exclude-carnival-norwegian-royal-caribbean-cruise-lines.html

 

This is an interesting development. For anyone who is steeped in cruising economics, can they please post as to whether the cruise lines would actually subject themselves to US jurisdiction by moving to US? they might not have a choice if the situation is dire.  But I had understood that doing so would make them subject to US Labor Laws, which would significantly increase their costs, and also subject them to US federal tax that would significantly increase their costs as well.   Would be very interested on getting insight on the facts here. Thanks. 

[hladygirl]

The corvina 19 virus is infecting the US at an Astronomical rate and you all are still whining about your cruise cancellations and refunds. Let us concentrate on the thousands of Americans who will die from this pandemic. Dear god where are your priorities?

[njhorseman]

38 minutes ago, egurbi said:

 

This is an interesting development. For anyone who is steeped in cruising economics, can they please post as to whether the cruise lines would actually subject themselves to US jurisdiction by moving to US? they might not have a choice if the situation is dire.  But I had understood that doing so would make them subject to US Labor Laws, which would significantly increase their costs, and also subject them to US federal tax that would significantly increase their costs as well.   Would be very interested on getting insight on the facts here. Thanks. 

I'm not sure that a requirement to incorporate in the US would also mean ships would have to be US -flagged. For example NCLH is incorporated in Bermuda but all its ships except POA are flagged in the Bahamas. In fact no  NCL ship other than POA is legally eligible to be flagged in the US .  The applicable labor laws are those of the flag state, not the state of domicile (incorporation). 

 

So at first blush it seems like it might be possible to reincorporate in the US, which would make the cruise lines subject to US federal income tax, but continue to have the ships  flagged in foreign countries, which would mean they would not have to comply with US labor laws.

 

I'm shooting from the hip here...I haven't researched it, but perhaps someone can give a more definite answer.

Edited March 27, 2020 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

12 minutes ago, hladygirl said:

The corvina 19 virus is infecting the US at an Astronomical rate and you all are still whining about your cruise cancellations and refunds. Let us concentrate on the thousands of Americans who will die from this pandemic. Dear god where are your priorities?

Having concern about the terrible toll of the pandemic and being concerned about whether you're going to be able to get your money back for a canceled cruise are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. I'd like to remind you that in addition to the pandemic's toll on human life it has also caused a significant financial upheaval with millions of Americans having lost their jobs this week alone. Lots of people have significant fears about their financial health as well as their physical health  because of the pandemic, so something affecting the amount of money in someone's pocket is a very real and legitimate concern.

 

This is a cruise forum, so discussions of topics relevant to cruising will appropriately be posted here.

 

And before you respond to this post you should know that the first person to die in NJ from COVID-19 was a friend of mine. And four members of a family I know very well, including two that I had regular business with for many years died shortly thereafter. 

 

I'm posting here as a distraction from the toll the pandemic has already taken on me and  people I know, and don't you dare sit in judgement and tell anyone they have no business being concerned about receiving a refund for their cruise.

[roger001]

33 minutes ago, hladygirl said:

The corvina 19 virus is infecting the US at an Astronomical rate and you all are still whining about your cruise cancellations and refunds. Let us concentrate on the thousands of Americans who will die from this pandemic. Dear god where are your priorities?

I kinda though this forum was actually about cruises and cruise ships...specifically NCL issues therein.  Bet there are other forums for anguishing over the total virus picture.  

[mugtech]

46 minutes ago, hladygirl said:

The corvina 19 virus is infecting the US at an Astronomical rate and you all are still whining about your cruise cancellations and refunds. Let us concentrate on the thousands of Americans who will die from this pandemic. Dear god where are your priorities?

Some of us can actually think about different subjects, do not have to concentrate on only one to the point of obsession.  Just this morning I was walking and chewing gum. 

[MaryZ]

They don't pay any federal taxes.  So, they won't get a bailout.  That's why you have shareholders.  You get to share in the good times and the bad.

This will be a bad time.

 

 

[Love my butler]

2 hours ago, hladygirl said:

The corvina 19 virus is infecting the US at an Astronomical rate and you all are still whining about your cruise cancellations and refunds. Let us concentrate on the thousands of Americans who will die from this pandemic. Dear god where are your priorities?

Yet you have time to come here and whine to us for not doing enough to stop the Chinese virus?  Shouldn't you be out saving lives man?

Pot meet kettle.

[npcl]

On 3/25/2020 at 3:42 PM, beerman2 said:

Makes you wonder about the PM. You raise port fee cost to break even and your merchants can still profit.

 

Sometimes leaders overthink what is best for the majority.

Actually what they did was contract the new port to another firm that will utilize locals and local businesses in the new port village area.  Instead of the consortium (CCL, RCL, NCLH) who seems to fill the ports they control with diamonds International and other "brand" business that seem to pretty much the same in the Caribbean and Alaska these days. 

[npcl]

3 hours ago, hladygirl said:

The corvina 19 virus is infecting the US at an Astronomical rate and you all are still whining about your cruise cancellations and refunds. Let us concentrate on the thousands of Americans who will die from this pandemic. Dear god where are your priorities?

This web site does happen to be called CRUISE critic.  I think you need to go else where for COVID-19 Critic.  Though people might confuse the CC abbreviation 

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, egurbi said:

 

This is an interesting development. For anyone who is steeped in cruising economics, can they please post as to whether the cruise lines would actually subject themselves to US jurisdiction by moving to US? they might not have a choice if the situation is dire.  But I had understood that doing so would make them subject to US Labor Laws, which would significantly increase their costs, and also subject them to US federal tax that would significantly increase their costs as well.   Would be very interested on getting insight on the facts here. Thanks. 

 

7 hours ago, njhorseman said:

I'm not sure that a requirement to incorporate in the US would also mean ships would have to be US -flagged. For example NCLH is incorporated in Bermuda but all its ships except POA are flagged in the Bahamas. In fact no  NCL ship other than POA is legally eligible to be flagged in the US .  The applicable labor laws are those of the flag state, not the state of domicile (incorporation). 

 

So at first blush it seems like it might be possible to reincorporate in the US, which would make the cruise lines subject to US federal income tax, but continue to have the ships  flagged in foreign countries, which would mean they would not have to comply with US labor laws.

 

I'm shooting from the hip here...I haven't researched it, but perhaps someone can give a more definite answer.

njhorseman is correct in everything stated, with one exception.  While currently no other NCL ship could be reflagged to US, if ownership is transferred to the US subsidiary of NCL, it would then be "US owned" and eligible for reflagging to US, but would not be PVSA compliant (not able to carry passengers from one US port to another).  That is the only impediment to reflagging a foreign built ship to US flag, is US ownership.  MARAD estimates that it costs about twice as much to operate a US flag ship over the same ship under foreign flag, so this cost would of course be passed to the consumer in higher cruise fares.  This is why a 7 day cruise on the POA costs more than a 14 day cruise to Hawaii from the West Coast on a foreign flag cruise ship.