Pride of America receive a bailout?

[tx121]

Since Pride of America is a US flagged ship and hires US citizens, will NCL get any bailout money for the one ship?

[ColeThornton]

Highly doubtful.  I hope not.

[seaman11]

3 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

Highly doubtful.  I hope not.

why not?

[tallnthensome]

Probably because it’s still owned by NCL. 

[BirdTravels]

5 hours ago, tx121 said:

Since Pride of America is a US flagged ship and hires US citizens, will NCL get any bailout money for the one ship?

All NCL ships hire US Citizens. The company is still foreign owned. 

[chengkp75]

While NCL and it's parent corporation NCLH are both foreign incorporated (which is the important status in the terms of the financial aid package, not ownership), they both employ the majority of their employees from foreign countries, so they fail on both requirements of the aid package.  However, Pride of America is owned by an NCL subidiary, Pride of America Ship Holding, Inc, which is incorporated in the US (and has US ownership accordingly), and employs the majority of its personnel from the US, so it could receive financial aid.

[tx121]

6 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

All NCL ships hire US Citizens. The company is still foreign owned. 

 

Yes NCL hires US citizens on all their ships, however all of the staff on Pride of America must be US citizens or green card holders as it says on the NCL website . The ship is also registered in Honolulu, Hawaii making it a US flagged ship. The rest of the NCL fleet is registered in the Bahamas, making them a foreign flagged ship.

Edited April 14, 2020 by tx121

[chengkp75]

26 minutes ago, tx121 said:

 

Yes NCL hires US citizens on all their ships, however all of the staff on Pride of America must be US citizens or green card holders as it says on the NCL website . The ship is also registered in Honolulu, Hawaii making it a US flagged ship. The rest of the NCL fleet is registered in the Bahamas, making them a foreign flagged ship.

Where the ship is flagged has little to do with this current financial aid package, it is where the corporation is incorporated.  And, since about 2007, not all POA crew are US citizens or green card holders.  At that time, NCL petitioned Congress, and got a bill passed that allows some, or all, of the green card holders (which can only be 25% of total crew) to be non-resident aliens, known as NRAC (Non-Resident Alien Crew), who receive US work visas, and US merchant mariner credentials (much to the disagreement from the USCG), and who receive US wages.  These NRAC's must have been employed by NCL for 10 years prior to applying for NRAC status, and NCL accepts sponsorship of these crew, legally and financially.

[Linda the Book Lover]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Where the ship is flagged has little to do with this current financial aid package, it is where the corporation is incorporated.  And, since about 2007, not all POA crew are US citizens or green card holders.  At that time, NCL petitioned Congress, and got a bill passed that allows some, or all, of the green card holders (which can only be 25% of total crew) to be non-resident aliens, known as NRAC (Non-Resident Alien Crew), who receive US work visas, and US merchant mariner credentials (much to the disagreement from the USCG), and who receive US wages.  These NRAC's must have been employed by NCL for 10 years prior to applying for NRAC status, and NCL accepts sponsorship of these crew, legally and financially.

Thanks for this information. You always explain things so easy to understand.

[tx121]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Where the ship is flagged has little to do with this current financial aid package, it is where the corporation is incorporated.  And, since about 2007, not all POA crew are US citizens or green card holders.  At that time, NCL petitioned Congress, and got a bill passed that allows some, or all, of the green card holders (which can only be 25% of total crew) to be non-resident aliens, known as NRAC (Non-Resident Alien Crew), who receive US work visas, and US merchant mariner credentials (much to the disagreement from the USCG), and who receive US wages.  These NRAC's must have been employed by NCL for 10 years prior to applying for NRAC status, and NCL accepts sponsorship of these crew, legally and financially.

Interesting 

So NCL basically wanted NRAC so they didn't have to pay higher salaries for jobs that would usually pay more? So I guess they can get away with paying minimum wage salary for say a non US citizen electrician for US minimum wage? And then this crew member pays taxes on it?

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by tx121

[chengkp75]

48 minutes ago, tx121 said:

Interesting 

So NCL basically wanted NRAC so they didn't have to pay higher salaries for jobs that would usually pay more? So I guess they can get away with paying minimum wage salary for say a non US citizen electrician for US minimum wage? And then this crew member pays taxes on it?

 

The NRAC crew are only in the hotel departments, not the "technical" departments (deck and engine), so no foreign electrician.  No, the reason they wanted the NRAC crew was to bring in supervisors to train hotel staff and to instill a better service culture in the US crew.  This was why the 10 years experience with NCL was added to the NRAC qualifications.  Yes, the NRAC crew pay US taxes and Social Security, but since they are non-resident, they can file US taxes and get them back, and/or claim the US taxes against their home country tax.  The only thing they lose out on is Social Security, but even taking this 6.75% out of their wage, they make more on POA than they do in the same job on any other NCL ship.  The vast majority of the US crew, the hotel staff, are in minimum wage positions, and have to pay for their TWIC and Merchant Mariner Credentials from USCG and DHS.

[bones774]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 to instill a better service culture in the US crew.

rhetorical question here, no need for answer, what are you really saying? I get it.

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, bones774 said:

rhetorical question here, no need for answer, what are you really saying? I get it.

"You want fries with that?"

[npcl]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While NCL and it's parent corporation NCLH are both foreign incorporated (which is the important status in the terms of the financial aid package, not ownership), they both employ the majority of their employees from foreign countries, so they fail on both requirements of the aid package.  However, Pride of America is owned by an NCL subidiary, Pride of America Ship Holding, Inc, which is incorporated in the US (and has US ownership accordingly), and employs the majority of its personnel from the US, so it could receive financial aid.

The list of NCLH subsidiaries in the US.

 

NCL America Holdings, LLC  Delaware

NCL America LLC  Delaware

Pride of America Ship Holding, LLC  Delaware

Pride of Hawaii, LLC  Delaware

 

The question is that since they are fully owned subsidiary all owned by a foreign corporation if that prevents the ability to qualify, even if the the subsidiary is incorporated in the US. A fair number of foreign multinational corporations have US subsidiaries.

 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, npcl said:

The list of NCLH subsidiaries in the US.

 

NCL America Holdings, LLC  Delaware

NCL America LLC  Delaware

Pride of America Ship Holding, LLC  Delaware

Pride of Hawaii, LLC  Delaware

 

The question is that since they are fully owned subsidiary all owned by a foreign corporation if that prevents the ability to qualify, even if the the subsidiary is incorporated in the US. A fair number of foreign multinational corporations have US subsidiaries.

 

I believe that some of those subsidiaries are no longer active, while they may still be on a list of US corporations.  You'll note a "Pride of Hawaii" and a "Pride of America Holding".  This is very common for shipowners to "own" each ship in a separate corporation, to limit liabilities.  I think that "Pride of Hawaii" went defunct when the Hawaii was reflagged to the Jade, and at least the "NCL America LLC" went out when they took the Hawaii and the Aloha out of US flag.

 

But, yes, I'm not a legal expert to say whether the subsidiary is eligible, I merely said it might ("could").  But, I think that US subsidiaries may be eligible even for foreign multinationals.