Job cuts

[molecrochip]

Now it’s in the media (BBC South), I can share.

 

Up to 450 job cuts from 1600 employees across P&O and Cunard head office in Southampton. All those who remain to take pay cut.

 

Thoughts with all affected. The announcement yesterday was a sad day.

Edited May 12, 2020 by molecrochip
Spacing

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Now it’s in the media (BBC South), I can share.

 

Up to 450 job cuts from 1600 employees across P&O and Cunard head office in Southampton. All those who remain to take pay cut.

 

Thoughts with all affected. The announcement yesterday was a sad day.

+1.

The coronavirus is affecting everyone and it is inevitable people are sadly going to lose their jobs.

[molecrochip]

If you search for the local paper, they gave a more substantial article. This is about keeping the business secure.

[Joseph Bloggs]

5 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Now it’s in the media (BBC South), I can share.

 

Up to 450 job cuts from 1600 employees across P&O and Cunard head office in Southampton. All those who remain to take pay cut.

 

Thoughts with all affected. The announcement yesterday was a sad day.

Obviously they won't be the only ones and I am not for one moment defending P & O's position regarding the refund situation and their customer service but it puts things in perspective in relation to their staff.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Joseph Bloggs

[Son of Anarchy]

Not surprising in the wake of announcements by other such as BA and Virgin.  Always a shame when anyone loses their job through no fault of their own.

 

Hopefully, when business picks up in time, they may be able to return.

[Joseph Bloggs]

Just read also that P & O Ferries have also announced 1100 redundancies and yes I know they are not part of Carnival or P & O cruises.

[terrierjohn]

2 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Not surprising in the wake of announcements by other such as BA and Virgin.  Always a shame when anyone loses their job through no fault of their own.

 

Hopefully, when business picks up in time, they may be able to return.

I think that's a forlorn hope Kalos, unfortunately the economy is not going to recover to previous levels for decades, long term unemployment will be the new norm. 

[Harry Peterson]

Inevitable, but very sad, obviously, for all the employees affected.  The impact on the Southampton area of the damage done to the cruise industry won’t be good. Let’s hope for a speedy recovery.

[Harry Peterson]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

I think that's a forlorn hope Kalos, unfortunately the economy is not going to recover to previous levels for decades, long term unemployment will be the new norm. 

You won’t believe I’m saying this, but I do feel that’s rather too pessimistic a viewpoint. It’s going to take time, sure, but I’d expect a quicker recovery than that.

 

If you’re right, and of course you may be, stock markets are currently grossly overvalued. 

 

This could be a topic for a whole new thread!

[Selbourne]

36 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Now it’s in the media (BBC South), I can share.

 

Up to 450 job cuts from 1600 employees across P&O and Cunard head office in Southampton. All those who remain to take pay cut.

 

Thoughts with all affected. The announcement yesterday was a sad day.

Thank you for sharing. That’s very sad news. Although you probably can’t say, I have gained the impression in recent weeks that you work for them and, if so, I do hope that you will be OK. I know an employee there very well indeed and hope that they will be OK. I will give them a few days before checking. Presumably if a pay cut is being enforced then affected employees could consider that to be an unreasonable offer and reject it, electing for redundancy, so the final job cuts may be even greater? As others have said, sad though it is, it’s no great surprise. It will be many years until the sector returns to the health it was in last year (many saying 10 years) and the current numbers of employees (and, probably, ships) will be unsustainable. 

[molecrochip]

8 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Thank you for sharing. That’s very sad news. Although you probably can’t say, I have gained the impression in recent weeks that you work for them and, if so, I do hope that you will be OK. I know an employee there very well indeed and hope that they will be OK. I will give them a few days before checking. Presumably if a pay cut is being enforced then affected employees could consider that to be an unreasonable offer and reject it, electing for redundancy, so the final job cuts may be even greater? As others have said, sad though it is, it’s no great surprise. It will be many years until the sector returns to the health it was in last year (many saying 10 years) and the current numbers of employees (and, probably, ships) will be unsustainable. 

4/5ths of your salary is better than zero. Also most working from home so no commuting costs, no bought lunches/coffees, no tax to pay on money you don’t receive. It doesn’t mean a 4/5ths cut you your finances at the end of the month. Also it’s currently only until November.

 

Everyone I’ve spoken to so far, without exception, wants to see the company survive and is willing to help. Really hard for those who may lose their job though - good people.

[Josy1953]

Southampton must be taking a heavy loss in terms of work thinking about the numbers working in the tourism and dock sectors.

[grapau27]

16 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

4/5ths of your salary is better than zero. Also most working from home so no commuting costs, no bought lunches/coffees, no tax to pay on money you don’t receive. It doesn’t mean a 4/5ths cut you your finances at the end of the month. Also it’s currently only until November.

 

Everyone I’ve spoken to so far, without exception, wants to see the company survive and is willing to help. Really hard for those who may lose their job though - good people.

I feel sadness for them 

I,like many others have experienced redundancy and it is an awful experience.

Edited May 12, 2020 by grapau27

[P&O SUE]

Thanks for posting, really sad news.

[P&O SUE]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:32 AM, Josy1953 said:

Southampton must be taking a heavy loss in terms of work thinking about the numbers working in the tourism and dock sectors.

Yes I thought that back in March when I cancelled my overnight hotel, The area must be taking a big hit.

[terrierjohn]

47 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

You won’t believe I’m saying this, but I do feel that’s rather too pessimistic a viewpoint. It’s going to take time, sure, but I’d expect a quicker recovery than that.

 

If you’re right, and of course you may be, stock markets are currently grossly overvalued. 

 

This could be a topic for a whole new thread!

I hope you're right and I am wrong, but the travel, holiday and hospitality industry is going to be the last out of lock down, and even then it will be unable to operate at anything approaching previous capacity, and this sector is a major employer.

[Selbourne]

17 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

4/5ths of your salary is better than zero. Also most working from home so no commuting costs, no bought lunches/coffees, no tax to pay on money you don’t receive. It doesn’t mean a 4/5ths cut you your finances at the end of the month. Also it’s currently only until November.

 

Everyone I’ve spoken to so far, without exception, wants to see the company survive and is willing to help. Really hard for those who may lose their job though - good people.

I agree, but it’s a contractual breach so anyone who might see this as an opportunity to leave (for example, early retirement) might consider it to be an ‘unreasonable offer’ (employment law term, rather than a lack of appreciation of the predicament) and seek redundancy. Usually two of around five criteria have to change (can’t recall all the detail now, it’s been a few years since I last dealt with a redundancy programme) but a 20% pay cut may be deemed material in itself (less so if it’s just until November though). 
The trouble with redundancy programmes is that you often lose people who you would rather keep and vice-versa. 

[Adawn47]

19 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Also it’s currently only until November.

 

I never read that anywhere!!  Why November when currently cruises are only cancelled until July 31st?  Is the next cutoff date going to be October 31st??

Someone knows more than we're being told.

Avril 

[molecrochip]

The Daily Echo says “Those who survive the cull will have their hours and pay cut by a fifth until November.”

 

Not linked to cruise cancellations as far as I’m aware. November is just six months from now.

[Son of Anarchy]

8 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

Yes I thought that back in March when I cancelled my overnight hotel, The area must be taking a big hit.

 

I thought that but...

 

Last month I needed to book a night in Southampton for September.  Blimey couldn't get our usual choices of either Premier Inn or Dolphin for less than £85.

 

Since Princess cancelled their European programme I reran the search a couple of days ago.  Same result.

[Eglesbrech]

32 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Thank you for sharing. That’s very sad news. Although you probably can’t say, I have gained the impression in recent weeks that you work for them and, if so, I do hope that you will be OK. I know an employee there very well indeed and hope that they will be OK. I will give them a few days before checking. Presumably if a pay cut is being enforced then affected employees could consider that to be an unreasonable offer and reject it, electing for redundancy, so the final job cuts may be even greater? As others have said, sad though it is, it’s no great surprise. It will be many years until the sector returns to the health it was in last year (many saying 10 years) and the current numbers of employees (and, probably, ships) will be unsustainable. 

They could only refuse to take the cut and go for redundancy if they don’t need to claim any sort of benefits once they have done so. If they need to claim then refusing a job offer, even with a large pay cut would be viewed as leaving voluntarily and would be sanctioned. It is of course different if they are one of those selected through a process for redundancy (but they could still lose out if the payment is big enough to take them over the assets threshold).

 

Ive been there and being made redundant is horrible, particularly at a time when other jobs will be scare. There are estimates that the unemployment rate will go to 9% as a minimum - back to the horrors of the 1980s with few jobs and many employers exploiting those who managed to keep one.
 

Let’s hope that there are some older workers who are near retirement and might be happy to take redundancy to go early rather than people being forced out but I doubt there will 450 of them.

 

[Adawn47]

1 minute ago, molecrochip said:

Not linked to cruise cancellations as far as I’m aware. November is just six months from now.

But balance  is due August 8th. 

Avril 

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

They could only refuse to take the cut and go for redundancy if they don’t need to claim any sort of benefits once they have done so. If they need to claim then refusing a job offer, even with a large pay cut would be viewed as leaving voluntarily and would be sanctioned. It is of course different if they are one of those selected through a process for redundancy (but they could still lose out if the payment is big enough to take them over the assets threshold).

 

Ive been there and being made redundant is horrible, particularly at a time when other jobs will be scare. There are estimates that the unemployment rate will go to 9% as a minimum - back to the horrors of the 1980s with few jobs and many employers exploiting those who managed to keep one.
 

Let’s hope that there are some older workers who are near retirement and might be happy to take redundancy to go early rather than people being forced out but I doubt there will 450 of them.

 

If they are hoping to get benefits then you are absolutely correct, but not everyone opts for redundancy with an expectation to get benefits, so the two issues need not be related. Some may be looking to retire early, some may be wanting to take a career break, others may see this as an opportunity to seek a career change. Whilst this is undoubtedly bad news and for most will be devastating, there will be some who will see it as an opportunity and will use employment law to their advantage. Unless the law has changed since I last dealt with this, assets don’t affect redundancy payments. Everyone is entitled to the first £30k of redundancy payments tax free. 

[Denarius]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

You won’t believe I’m saying this, but I do feel that’s rather too pessimistic a viewpoint. It’s going to take time, sure, but I’d expect a quicker recovery than that.

 

If you’re right, and of course you may be, stock markets are currently grossly overvalued. 

 

This could be a topic for a whole new thread!

The recent Bank of England report forecast that the UK economy would shrink by 14% this year because of Covid-19. It also forecast that provided that there was not a second wave it would grow by 15% next year, ending 2021 in a similar postion to that at the begining of 2020. The usual doom mongers - hello, BBC - trumpeted the first part of the prediction but skirted quickly over the second.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Denarius
spelling

[Selbourne]

4 minutes ago, Denarius said:

The recent Bank of England report forecast that the UK economy would shrink by 14% this year because of Covid-19. It also forecast that provided that there was not a second wave it would grow by 15% next year, ending 2021 in a similar postion to that at the begining of 2020. The usual doom mongers - hello, BBC - trumpeted the first part of the prediction but skirted quickly over the second.

I saw the same report and the interview with the BOE Governor. It seems unbelievable to me, but I sincerely hope that they are correct. I can’t help but feel that the recovery will be uneven though and not all sectors will benefit to the same degree. I can think of few industries that will be more adversely affected than cruising. Even airlines, which are on their knees at present, will recover better as they have business travel as well as leisure.