Who will still cruise with Princess...I think many in these groups won’t

[caribill]

9 hours ago, jondfk said:

 

I'm unqualified to comment on Diamond but will share some facts from the Grand voyage of February 21st which landed us at Travis.

 

 

8 hours ago, suzyed said:

There were a great deal of similarities to the Grand while we were on the Coral 3/5/20 sailing. 

 

 

Thanks for posting your real-life experiences.

[npcl]

9 hours ago, stracpat said:

I will NEVER cruise with Princess again - they have been horrific!

Our cruise was first or maybe second cruise cancelled in February, the evening before we were due to sail from Singapore. 

We were told so many things that we could claim back that evening and were assured we would get it all back if we just submitted a claim to them. Other than that we were left to our own devices to figure out our way back to the UK.

Here we are in August still trying to get reimbursed for our flight change fee and additional night in the hotel - initially we were told we could claim all our flights and hotel but no, that was rejected when we got home. We are now 1000s out of pocket 😡 and getting blood out of a stone would be easier than getting a response from anyone in the whole of Princess.

We have our cruise credit which runs out in February - no extension granted there despite it only being usable for maybe two months at most. So we do have a cruise booked as late as we could but after that Princess do not exist to us.

 

We are a young couple - I will be 30 in October and did have a Princess cruise booked for it which has also been cancelled. You would think Princess would be trying to keep this part of the market as older passengers will understandably be cautious about coming back.

If they continue they will run themselves into the ground as both Celebrity and Royal Caribbean are way more appealing to the younger crowd!

Since you are from the UK, did you also purchase your trip through a UK TA or from Prince UK?  If so have you tried making a claim under UK package travel regulations?

[stracpat]

8 minutes ago, npcl said:

Since you are from the UK, did you also purchase your trip through a UK TA or from Prince UK?  If so have you tried making a claim under UK package travel regulations?

 

As it was the night before the cruise and we were already in Singapore the time difference and the pressure to make a decision there and then really messed us up - we were told things by our TA and by Princess which turned out to not be true and screwed us over in our right to claim anything from ABTA. ABTA were also horrible when we called them acting as if we should have known the ins and outs of all the regulations. Basically if we hadn't packed and raced to the airport and got the next flight that night (only half an hour to check in cut off) we aren't entitled to claim anything for our full flight.

The whole situation is so disappointing and we were really annoyed that we weren't advised properly at the time.

[FiftyOnePlus]

On 8/11/2020 at 9:10 AM, Loreni said:

Many here are diehard cruisers who can’t wait to sail. Although I wonder if the volume on these boards is reduced since Covid. When cruising really starts up again, I believe many people who fall into the following groups may think twice. 

 

1. People who had to wait so long for a refund.  Especially those who really needed their money back due to Covid related hardships.
 

2. People who booked after March and had their cruises canceled and are waiting for refunds. These people may rightly or wrongly believe Princess expected to cancel and is effectively using them for a loan.

 

3. Anyone in a high risk group.

 

4. People who have spent the last few months exploring other vacation options such as road trips or visiting family who they will not have seen for a long time.

 

5. People who have committed to other options by buying an RV, boat, or a vacation home.
 

6. People who no longer trust the cruise industry or perhaps Princess in particular.

 

7. People who fear being quarantined either on a ship or near a port.
 

8. People who were financially hurt by the pandemic.

 

9. People who don’t want to be shepherded when ashore having no contact with anyone but their guide.  Many excursions won’t even be possible under these conditions.  For example, how would one tour the Sistine Chapel?

 

10. People who don’t believe the ships have adequate medical facilities.
 

11. People who don’t want uncertainty regarding which ports they will actually visit.  Who wants to buy a pig in a poke?

 

12. People who don’t want to wear masks.

 

13. People who do want to wear masks, but wonder how (if) mask wearing will be enforced.
 

14. People who have never cruised before. They may not be able to get past the stories in the media.

 

15. Frequent cruisers who believe cruising has been going downhill and fear more cuts will be made as cruise lines struggle to become profitable again.

 

16.  People who always believed there were pluses and minuses with cruising, but greatly appreciated the value it offered.  This value may change if prices go up even if service doesn’t go down.
 

17. People who don’t believe social distancing is possible on a ship.
 

I believe cruising will survive in some form, hopefully not too different than we remember.  But I wonder how.

Happy to cruise with Princess again as soon as all the nonsense stops.
Get back to normal....and we are on there!

 

[USCcruisecrazy]

We will absolutely cruise again with Princess...hopefully many times over!!  

 

Not sure I understand all the angst about the refunds, as long as you eventually get or got them.  It only made sense for all cruise lines to slowly disperse the funds because if they go bankrupt no one crusies with them again.  Better to lose 1% of disgruntled customers than 100% of the business.

 

Many businesses that work off deposits did the same.  Best friend owns a formal wear shop and had hundreds of refunds to give because of cancelled Proms and Weddings.  If he gavce them all at once he would have lost his business.  He waited or gave credit for future purchases until the PPP went through and he stayed afloat.  Thank God!!  He is now picking up again since our state has reopened about 90% full speed ahead!!

[USCcruisecrazy]

We will absolutely cruise again with Princess...hopefully many times over!!  

 

Not sure I understand all the angst about the refunds, as long as you eventually get or got them.  It only made sense for all cruise lines to slowly disperse the funds because if they go bankrupt no one crusies with them again.  Better to lose 1% of disgruntled customers than 100% of the business.

 

Many businesses that work off deposits did the same.  Best friend owns a formal wear shop and had hundreds of refunds to give because of cancelled Proms and Weddings.  If he gavce them all at once he would have lost his business.  He waited or gave credit for future purchases until the PPP went through and he stayed afloat.  Thank God!!  He is now picking up again since our state has reopened about 90% full speed ahead!!

[npcl]

2 hours ago, stracpat said:

 

As it was the night before the cruise and we were already in Singapore the time difference and the pressure to make a decision there and then really messed us up - we were told things by our TA and by Princess which turned out to not be true and screwed us over in our right to claim anything from ABTA. ABTA were also horrible when we called them acting as if we should have known the ins and outs of all the regulations. Basically if we hadn't packed and raced to the airport and got the next flight that night (only half an hour to check in cut off) we aren't entitled to claim anything for our full flight.

The whole situation is so disappointing and we were really annoyed that we weren't advised properly at the time.

my understanding is that the PTR while related to ABTA does offer some protections and avenue to file outside of ABTA. Since a cruise includes by default both accommodations and travel it falls under PTR.

 

ABTA is a set of protections offered by a group of TAs that are part of ABTA.

 

PTR is the national consumer protection regulations.

Edited August 20, 2020 by npcl

[nbsjcruiser]

On 8/17/2020 at 5:45 PM, pink845 said:

We have cancelled all our cruises with Princess for 2021 and 2022 (also cancelled the ones we had booked for RCCL for both years).  When cruising safely does return, I predict 2023 with an efficient vaccine in play, masks and social distancing (hey, I am so used to this routine in Ontario Canada) that I would feel out of sorts going anywhere without my mask, we will resume cruising.  We will only book last minute cruises and be darn sure that our travel insurance covers us and then and only then will we be back on a ship.  And, I will really miss cruising but that is life.   

Pretty much sums up our attitude as well. In the meantime, we're redirecting our travel funds to renovations on our house. Long overdue for us and so in that respect, covid has forced a break on us that we would have taken very soon anyway. When cruising returns safely in a way you detail, we'll gladly resume. My prediction is fall of 2022 before we will be on a cruise ship again.

[nellydean]

On 8/11/2020 at 2:10 PM, resistk said:

There was a reason why Princess was hit hardest by COVID of any cruise line.  I don't trust them to keep my family safe. 

I am not flying the flag for Princess, and I don't know what the situation was like in Japan with the Diamond but, as regards the Ruby Princess in Australia, I read an article the other day, where the NSW premier apologised for the mistakes made, after an enquiry found the authorities guilty of serious errors in handling the ship when it arrived, and allowing 2,500 passengers to disembark.

 

So, while mistakes have been made all round, it might be wise to wait until we get a greater overall picture which, like Covid itself, won't be for a good while yet, before writing off the cruise line altogether.

[latserrof]

19 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

 

 

Not sure I understand all the angst about the refunds, as long as you eventually get or got them.  It only made sense for all cruise lines to slowly disperse the funds because if they go bankrupt no one crusies with them again.  Better to lose 1% of disgruntled customers than 100% of the business.

 

Many businesses that work off deposits did the same. 

Might this help you understand?  Many cruisers, including business owners like myself, needed their  money refunded so that they could survive. It was their money. And many were anxious that they get their money refunded before the cruiseline went bankrupt. There was no assurance that passengers would "eventually" get their money back (or when "eventually" might be). Many still haven't. (And many may not if they are stuck with worthless FCC if the cruiselines go bankrupt or the passenger can't sail).  And many cruisers did not have a lot of time to waste struggling to get their money back in the face of a constant runaround from the cruiseline.  And just because it might make business sense for a cruiseline to drag its feet in refunding passengers' money, that's no excuse for treating customers abominably. And neither is the fact that other businesses acted similarly.

Does that help?

Edited August 21, 2020 by latserrof

[donnajo]

On 8/17/2020 at 10:47 AM, latserrof said:

 

Wouldn't you have been out the money anyway if the cruise had actually happened and not been cancelled?  How hard up for the money must you be?

Maybe you shouldn't be vacationing if money is that tight 😮

[Abercrombie2019]

6 minutes ago, donnajo said:

Wouldn't you have been out the money anyway if the cruise had actually happened and not been cancelled?  How hard up for the money must you be?

Maybe you shouldn't be vacationing if money is that tight 😮

Perhaps the pandemic has affected latserrof's ability to have an income for the last 6 months or so (the way it has affected millions of people).

It isn't possible to know what someone is going through, so it is always best to choose to be kind. 🙂

Edited August 21, 2020 by Abercrombie2019

[npcl]

28 minutes ago, donnajo said:

Wouldn't you have been out the money anyway if the cruise had actually happened and not been cancelled?  How hard up for the money must you be?

Maybe you shouldn't be vacationing if money is that tight 😮

Maybe if the virus outbreak had not occurred their finances, as with many other formerly  well off individuals in a number of industries, would not have under gone a quick and dramatic change.

 

You have noticed many businesses have shutdown, or had their business cut substantially cut. many land lords suddenly finding that their tenants no longer paying, but protected from eviction.

 

Just as those depending upon bonds and other interest driven financial vehicles are suddenly finding their income opportunities reduced with the US 10 year hitting record lows.

 

 

[donnajo]

Yeah, I get that, but IF the cruise had actually happened they would be out the money anyway.

[latserrof]

40 minutes ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

Perhaps the pandemic has affected latserrof's ability to have an income for the last 6 months or so (the way it has affected millions of people).

It isn't possible to know what someone is going through, so it is always best to choose to be kind. 🙂

Thanks. I haven't earned any income in the last 6 months. I'll be 70 in November and am collecting unemployment insurance for the first time in my life. But I'm in OK shape, I wasn't really talking about myself, except to indicate that I too am a business owner and that other business owners can be hurt by businesses with questionable business ethics. But there are many people, including business owners, who are now facing unimagined expenses, like now having to help support parents, children, other family members, friends or employees. Or they may have new medical expenses directly related to covid.  And they may face grim financial futures due to the changes brought on by covid.

A little understanding for people like that maybe, please?

But in any case, the extent of one's immediate financial need doesn't determine one's right to a timely refund of their money. And to withhold that money, particularly during these troubled times, because it makes business sense is repulsive.

 

 

 

[Abercrombie2019]

4 minutes ago, donnajo said:

Yeah, I get that, but IF the cruise had actually happened they would be out the money anyway.

The only way the cruise could have happened is if there wasn't a lock down.  If there wasn't a lock down people wouldn't be experiencing the financial catastrophe.  We all wish that this didn't happen, but it has.  Now we have to look out for each other and move forward.

[gardenbunny]

I cannot wait to cruise again!! As it has been stated over and over, this was a virus that has taken over the entire planet we all live on and every person place or thing (and businesses) have been affected on every level on a scale from 1-10.  Better than some...worse than others.  How we  are all dealing with it is serious “on the job training.”.  It is difficut to make plans for anything right now without using the word IF.  Sure there have been mistakes made but it appears things are leveling out as we learn how to work our way through it.   This virus will sadly continue to be a part of our lives for the foreseeable future and we will all find ways to deal with it - it is called personal responsibility - something recent generations have lost sight of in our “blame society”.  But  I feel that I can do the right things to continue to keep my self safe on a cruise ship as I have done the past  6 months going about my daily life.  For those who needed the money refunded for financial needs I hope it has been resolved or on the way to resolution.  For those of us with FCC, I just see it as pre-paid travel 😀.   And I think I might have lost $3.00 in interest on my money market account that funds my travel addiction.   I don’t worry about Princess having my money if it helps them in some way financially so they can continue to provide us all a great way to see the world when all this is behind us.  I have spent 290 wonderful days on Princess ships and look forward to 290 more!  I had booked a 10-day cruise for Dec 29th before this virus and pause.  I am seriously hoping it can happen and will not hesitate to board.  What a celebration we will have!!! Best sail away party ever!!!!

[TNTLAMB]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:21 PM, resistk said:

 

Diamond Princess, Ruby Princess, Grand Princess,.  Princess was hardest hit by COVID.

The five ships with the most confirmed Covid-19 cases were the Wonder, the Grand Princess, the Valor, Royal Caribbean Cruises ' Celebrity Eclipse and Carnival Corp.'s Freedom, according to the data.

 

Covid-19 Hits Cruise-Ship Crews Hard - WSJ

[npcl]

1 hour ago, donnajo said:

Yeah, I get that, but IF the cruise had actually happened they would be out the money anyway.

But for the cruise to happen, either the outbreak would not have happened, or its impact would have been a lot less and their income would not have suffered.

 

In either case the outbreak did happen, its negative consequences including the cancellation of the cruise happened.

[npcl]

31 minutes ago, TNTLAMB said:

The five ships with the most confirmed Covid-19 cases were the Wonder, the Grand Princess, the Valor, Royal Caribbean Cruises ' Celebrity Eclipse and Carnival Corp.'s Freedom, according to the data.

 

Covid-19 Hits Cruise-Ship Crews Hard - WSJ

The article is focusing on crew.

 

The Diamond, Grand and Ruby were the most passenger cases

[TNTLAMB]

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

The article is focusing on crew.

 

The Diamond, Grand and Ruby were the most passenger cases

 Correct. However the Original post was referring to"mismanagement" of ship conditions and Princess the worst. Thats not true. The Diamond, Grand and Ruby were hit almost simutaneously and largley dependent on their port schedule. The others list failed to learn the lessons taught and their crews paid for it.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TNTLAMB

[Georgie562]

Who will still cruise with Princess...I think many in these groups won’t

I'm not sure about others in this group but I know I am cruising Princess December 2021.

Tahiti with my sweetie 🏝️❤️

[MamaFej]

19 hours ago, donnajo said:

Yeah, I get that, but IF the cruise had actually happened they would be out the money anyway.

AND they would still have the income they had before, making the expense manageable, and part of their normal budget. 
 

I fully recognize my privilege and the fact that waiting months upon months for FCCs and refunds does not affect my ability to pay my bills. Our income has not been negatively impacted by this horror. However, many, many, many people have lost their otherwise predictable incomes. They NEED their money back to feed and shelter their families. 
 

Perhaps a modicum of empathy might be in order. 

[ABoatNerd]

I know many former "die hard" cruisers who will not be cruising in the future for many of the reasons noted above, particularly Loreni's excellent 15 point summary.

 

But - there is another reason......... It is the last 5 years of cruise lines downgrading and up charging behavior. 

 

I am quite fed up with the downgrading across all lines - the fact from one cruise to the next something(s) are downgraded and or eliminated. Long time cruisers know this was not always the case.

 

Many of us have turned to other vacation options and found the satisfaction and consistency that we wish and the value for money that we pay for and expect.

 

Many of us are not pining away for cruising. We check in here because of interest, but that should not be confused with intent to sail. 

 

So add in post virus changes and the attitude of the cruise lines = dire hesitancy to book a cruise. 

[Ombud]

On 8/12/2020 at 9:26 PM, oncruisecontrol said:

Your list is wholly comprehensive. The points that hit me the most were:

#7-----Fear of quarantine.....I don't think I'll ever cruise again because of this risk.  Even if cruise lines take steps to mitigate this risk and even if there comes along an effective vaccine, I'm not willing to take even a minuscule risk that I might be quarantined on a ship.

#12-------People who don't wear a mask.......I don't like wearing a mask on land but I do it because I think it is a reasonable precaution and protection for myself and others.  But there are way too many people who rebuff mask-wearing that I don't want to be trapped on a ship with them. I also will not consider vacationing until mask-wearing is no longer mandatory (unlike some who would still cruise but break any mask-wearing rule that is in place, daring anyone to enforce that rule).

#15------More cuts. Cruising had already been going downhill even before COVID-19.  I have been cruising for 18 years and the quality of (especially) the food has steadily declined over at least the last ten years. COVID will undoubtedly only make it worse since profits have been down/nonexistent.

#16-------The value.  Which goes hand and hand with #15.  Cruising might likely become elite again, i.e. out of the reach of the many.  This is not necessarily bad as maybe the product will improve if the price is higher and the quality, of especially the food, rises to at least the level it was when I first started cruising. Perhaps the new business model will emphasize smaller ships instead of these super-crowded megaships which really I can't stand.  It may price me out of cruising every year, but maybe that would allow for a better experience even if I can only cruise once every five years or so.

#17-------Social Distancing is not really possible or practical on a modern day mega cruise ship unless the ship is well below capacity.

huh?? You do know this is a CRUISE board, right? If you're not going to cruise again and don't like the ships, then have you found a more desirable way to travel and their boards? Others ( @resistk )  may be interested in whatever websites you're looking at 

 

On 8/13/2020 at 6:40 PM, Hlitner said:

Lines like HAL had essentially eliminated self-service buffets more then 2 years prior to COVID.  They used a buffet model that had pre plated items or packed items like sandwiches along with staff serving most items along the buffet line. 

That's how it was on my last Princess cruise (and 1st time in buffet). I just thought it was always that way.