Who will still cruise with Princess...I think many in these groups won’t

[ringers0815]

We have 2 cruises booked with Princess - one in Fall 2021 and one in Winter 2022. We applied our FCC from a cancelled cruise to the Fall 2021 cruise so hope it sails. We are also hoping to do a "land" based trip to Europe in Winter 2021 but we will wait and see how things go. 

[latserrof]

1 hour ago, latserrof said:

 

On our last Princess cruise, we couldn't get the hotel director to enforce their no-cigars rule right next to the toddlers' play area. They gave us a free dinner instead.

 

Sorry to quote myself, but my wife just reminded me that on that same cruise, we had an otherwise-nice table for two, except that there was an occasional dripping from the ceiling above right onto our table. When we first mentioned it to the staff,  they said "yeah, sometimes it does that, it's the air conditioning." We are not particularly finicky or squeamish, so we mostly made light of it (one night we even brought umbrellas as a joke).  But on nights when it was particularly drippy and there was a nearby table available, we would ask to be switched -- then watch as some other unsuspecting couple was seated at the rainy table.  And, we were on the same ship about six weeks later (Royal Princess, supposedly the flagship of the Princess fleet), same table, same leak, same routine. It may be an example of Princess's concern for passenger safety; there's some talk lately of office buildings that are dormant because of the virus developing legionnaire's disease, and the same might be true of the paused cruise ships, which might be an example of the many possible unforseen consequences of the virus.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by latserrof

[homeinboca]

You list a lot of reasons why people won't be cruising for quite some time. I think that once cruising does resume, it will be with limited numbers and will be quite expensive compared to the competitive market that existed before COVID-19 changed the world travel industry. I hear that demand for the latter half or 2021 is quite strong due to pent up demand from die-hard cruisers. Casual cruisers may just wait a little longer.

 

DW and I favour Princess and we will be back...one day.....we'll meet again...

[JimmyVWine]

On 8/11/2020 at 9:10 AM, resistk said:

There was a reason why Princess was hit hardest by COVID of any cruise line.  I don't trust them to keep my family safe. 

 

20 hours ago, resistk said:

 

Diamond Princess, Ruby Princess, Grand Princess,.  Princess was hardest hit by COVID.

 

But what is the reason?  Demonstrably greater negligence than other cruise lines? Willful disregard for the health and safety of the passengers and crew?  Or was it geography?  Of course Diamond (in and around China when China was ground zero) had more cases than a ship sailing around Ecuador and Chile.  And the vicious spread was largely the result of keeping the infection on the ship and not letting people get off.  Immediate evacuation of the ship would have driven Diamond's numbers way down, (while driving the on-shore numbers way up.)  Was any of this the doing of Princess in a way that other cruise lines did it better, or would have done it better had their ship just sailed out of China?   By the time other ships detected a problem on board,  more effective protocols were in place that kept the numbers down.  Nursing homes that were hit early fared far worse than nursing homes that are getting hit now.  Were the early nursing homes more culpable, or just less aware and prepared for the situation they faced?  I don't know that I trust PCL any more, or any less than any other cruise line.

 

Which brings me to The OP's question.  I think there are two levels of safety in our future.  The first is when Covid-19 is "well-managed" (and you can insert your own definition of what that means.)  In other words, the virus will be in our midst, but certain measures and strategies will be in place to decrease the risk of contraction.  We are seeing that with airlines and Disney parks.  I believe that the cruise industry will begin to sail when we reach a level of "well-managed" that satisfies a sufficient number of people.  But using Disney as an example, they are operating at around 30% capacity because that is one of the major "well-managed" strategies that they can employ to keep people safe and get people accustomed to returning to the fold.  But the cruise industry cannot operate on 30% capacity.  So I don't know what "well-managed" is going to look like for cruising.  But I guarantee that cruising will begin again at some point in time when defensive strategies will be necessary and employed such as masks, theater shows with one-third seating capacity, no Tables of 8 comprised of strangers, etc.  

 

The second level of safety is when Covid-19 is simply no longer a thing.  When it is eradicated in the way that the Spanish Flu was, or small pox, or polio, or Swine Flu.  I have no idea what will cause that to happen, (herd immunity after the 50,000,000 most vulnerable people die?  An effective vaccine?) or when it will happen.  But it will happen.  I do not believe that the human race is sentenced to social distancing with masks for the next 5,000 years.  Something is going to change.  And when that comes to pass, we will be back to the way things were in 2019 (with perhaps a greater appreciation for sanitation and cleanliness.)   I do not see myself getting back on a ship until we are at the second level of safety.  But when we do achieve that state, I will definitely cruise again, and would consider PCL in exactly the same way I considered them for my last cruise in 2019.  

[welly world]

We have 3 more scheduled! Can't wait to cruise again!!!! Unless you want to live in a bubble the rest of your life, you will have to take some chances.

[PrincessLuver]

7 hours ago, npcl said:

I suspect a rule that is intended to create a safe environment and where failing to enforce is more likely to get the cruise line shutdown, or to create a great deal of negative press is one that the cruise lines are much more likely to enforce.

 

What can they really do........nothing really and cruise lines are not the only place where people are refusing to follow guidelines and sometime even laws regarding living with Covid-19 safely for everyone....

[donnajo]

Like the airlines, they will make violators disembark.  I've seen people thrown off a ship before.

[npcl]

37 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

What can they really do........nothing really and cruise lines are not the only place where people are refusing to follow guidelines and sometime even laws regarding living with Covid-19 safely for everyone....

They can do what the airlines are doing (remove from plane and ban them from flying with that airline)

 

1. They can lock them in their cabins until the next port for failure to follow ships crew instructions

2. They can remove them from the ship at the next port

3. They can ban them from future cruises

[LARGIN]

5 Princess cruises booked in 2021

[PrincessLuver]

51 minutes ago, npcl said:

They can do what the airlines are doing (remove from plane and ban them from flying with that airline)

 

1. They can lock them in their cabins until the next port for failure to follow ships crew instructions

2. They can remove them from the ship at the next port

3. They can ban them from future cruises

They will have their hands full...I have never considered ship environments that safe when it comes to enforcement anyway.... but It will be a long time before they have to deal with this anyway....

[oncruisecontrol]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:10 AM, Loreni said:

Many here are diehard cruisers who can’t wait to sail. Although I wonder if the volume on these boards is reduced since Covid. When cruising really starts up again, I believe many people who fall into the following groups may think twice. 

 

1. People who had to wait so long for a refund.  Especially those who really needed their money back due to Covid related hardships.
 

2. People who booked after March and had their cruises canceled and are waiting for refunds. These people may rightly or wrongly believe Princess expected to cancel and is effectively using them for a loan.

 

3. Anyone in a high risk group.

 

4. People who have spent the last few months exploring other vacation options such as road trips or visiting family who they will not have seen for a long time.

 

5. People who have committed to other options by buying an RV, boat, or a vacation home.
 

6. People who no longer trust the cruise industry or perhaps Princess in particular.

 

7. People who fear being quarantined either on a ship or near a port.
 

8. People who were financially hurt by the pandemic.

 

9. People who don’t want to be shepherded when ashore having no contact with anyone but their guide.  Many excursions won’t even be possible under these conditions.  For example, how would one tour the Sistine Chapel?

 

10. People who don’t believe the ships have adequate medical facilities.
 

11. People who don’t want uncertainty regarding which ports they will actually visit.  Who wants to buy a pig in a poke?

 

12. People who don’t want to wear masks.

 

13. People who do want to wear masks, but wonder how (if) mask wearing will be enforced.
 

14. People who have never cruised before. They may not be able to get past the stories in the media.

 

15. Frequent cruisers who believe cruising has been going downhill and fear more cuts will be made as cruise lines struggle to become profitable again.

 

16.  People who always believed there were pluses and minuses with cruising, but greatly appreciated the value it offered.  This value may change if prices go up even if service doesn’t go down.
 

17. People who don’t believe social distancing is possible on a ship.
 

I believe cruising will survive in some form, hopefully not too different than we remember.  But I wonder how.

Your list is wholly comprehensive. The points that hit me the most were:

#7-----Fear of quarantine.....I don't think I'll ever cruise again because of this risk.  Even if cruise lines take steps to mitigate this risk and even if there comes along an effective vaccine, I'm not willing to take even a minuscule risk that I might be quarantined on a ship.

#12-------People who don't wear a mask.......I don't like wearing a mask on land but I do it because I think it is a reasonable precaution and protection for myself and others.  But there are way too many people who rebuff mask-wearing that I don't want to be trapped on a ship with them. I also will not consider vacationing until mask-wearing is no longer mandatory (unlike some who would still cruise but break any mask-wearing rule that is in place, daring anyone to enforce that rule).

#15------More cuts. Cruising had already been going downhill even before COVID-19.  I have been cruising for 18 years and the quality of (especially) the food has steadily declined over at least the last ten years. COVID will undoubtedly only make it worse since profits have been down/nonexistent.

#16-------The value.  Which goes hand and hand with #15.  Cruising might likely become elite again, i.e. out of the reach of the many.  This is not necessarily bad as maybe the product will improve if the price is higher and the quality, of especially the food, rises to at least the level it was when I first started cruising. Perhaps the new business model will emphasize smaller ships instead of these super-crowded megaships which really I can't stand.  It may price me out of cruising every year, but maybe that would allow for a better experience even if I can only cruise once every five years or so.

#17-------Social Distancing is not really possible or practical on a modern day mega cruise ship unless the ship is well below capacity.

[caribill]

2 hours ago, oncruisecontrol said:

....maybe the product will improve if the price is higher and the quality, of especially the food, rises to at least the level it was when I first started cruising. ...

 

Before Covid-19 prices were increasing while quality was dropping.

 

Within the same cruise line, increased pricing does not equal increased quality.

[latebloomer56]

Well just booked Princess Grand for Hawaii but not until 2022. I love Princess only sail on other line when we want to sail from home port near Boston. We have done their Hawaii LA trip before and found it very relaxing. It is our hope the virus has run it's course and they have a vaccine in place like the yearly flu shot (which I have never received) if it is mandatory then I will will comply just to cruise Princess again.

Fingers crossed folks cruising will be be back for those of us who enjoy being at sea.

[latserrof]

19 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

 

But I guarantee that cruising will begin again at some point in time ...

Can anyone guarantee that something worse than Covid-19 won't come along in the meantime?

Edited August 13, 2020 by latserrof

[JimmyVWine]

6 minutes ago, latserrof said:

Do you guarantee that something worse than Covid-19 won't come along in the meantime?

Well, if it does, then debating the restart dates for cruising will be the least of anyone's concerns.

[cruising deacon]

Loreni,

 

I think I fell into about 12 of those 17 categories.  After 50+ cruises on Princess, I plan to never cruise again.  For us cruising was FUN,  but it doesn't sound like fun in the future, actually frightful.  We have already planned 3 other types of vacations for later in 2020 and early 2021, Princess isn't going to get us back.

[Hlitner]

24 minutes ago, cruising deacon said:

Loreni,

 

I think I fell into about 12 of those 17 categories.  After 50+ cruises on Princess, I plan to never cruise again.  For us cruising was FUN,  but it doesn't sound like fun in the future, actually frightful.  We have already planned 3 other types of vacations for later in 2020 and early 2021, Princess isn't going to get us back.

A well reasoned comment :).  We have "hedged our bets" and do have 3 long cruises (none with Princess) booked for 2021.  But we cruise because it is fun, we love being at sea, and we use it in conjunction with linked long land trips (pre/post cruise).  But, if the cruise lines substantially alter their product which takes away from the quality cruise experience we will simply replace our 100+ cruise days per year with more independent land trips.   When I read the details of how MSC will resume cruising in Europe my immediate reaction is there is no way we would even consider a voyage under those circumstances.  And I say this despite the fact we really like MSC's Yacht Club.  

 

As to Princess, we have an open mind.  The cruise line cancelled two of our bookings (28 days on the Regal and 18 days on the Island) but that is just the way of the world at this time.  Whether we would go back on Princess will depend if and when they ever restart cruising, their itineraries, pricing, and quality of the product.   We thought the product was gradually declining prior to COVID and hope that somebody at Princess will have the wisdom to use this pause to determine ways to improve their product.

 

Hank

[cltnccruisers]

We'll cruise again but not until multiple working vaccines are available and the lines have had time to get the kinks worked out of their protocols.  We'll go with Princess hopefully in March, 2022, to use our accumulated FCC.  That's for the family.  Then we'll probably go back to Celebrity if we continue cruising.

[nini]

We love cruising and if the industry is alive, Princess is our first choice.

[Ombud]

18 hours ago, npcl said:

They can do what the airlines are doing (remove from plane and ban them from flying with that airline)

 

1. They can lock them in their cabins until the next port for failure to follow ships crew instructions

2. They can remove them from the ship at the next port

3. They can ban them from future cruises

Brig if #1 fails

Edited August 13, 2020 by Ombud

[caribill]

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

When I read the details of how MSC will resume cruising in Europe my immediate reaction is there is no way we would even consider a voyage under those circumstances. 

 

I can only assume that the MSC details are necessary for cruising to restart, not how cruising will be a year from now.

 

Other cruise lines will likely have to have similar restrictions in place when they start cruising again. Hopefully the reasonable rules (no self-serve at the buffet) will stay on and the unreasonable ones (tour only on a ship's tour) will disappear once it is proven that ships can sail without Covid-19 showing up and an effective vaccine becomes available.

[ontheweb]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:35 PM, npcl said:

They can do what the airlines are doing (remove from plane and ban them from flying with that airline)

 

1. They can lock them in their cabins until the next port for failure to follow ships crew instructions

2. They can remove them from the ship at the next port

3. They can ban them from future cruises

4. They can make them "walk the plank".

[Hlitner]

48 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

I can only assume that the MSC details are necessary for cruising to restart, not how cruising will be a year from now.

 

Other cruise lines will likely have to have similar restrictions in place when they start cruising again. Hopefully the reasonable rules (no self-serve at the buffet) will stay on and the unreasonable ones (tour only on a ship's tour) will disappear once it is proven that ships can sail without Covid-19 showing up and an effective vaccine becomes available.

Lines like HAL had essentially eliminated self-service buffets more then 2 years prior to COVID.  They used a buffet model that had pre plated items or packed items like sandwiches along with staff serving most items along the buffet line.  In fact, HAL had even replaced their self-service salad bar with a system where staff would fill your salad bowl per your instructions.  '

 

But the big issue will be social distancing.  While this might work on small luxury cruise ships it does not fit the design of most mass market vessels.  Consider the deck chairs (on many liines) that are within inches of each other or actually touching.  To allow for social distancing they would have to remove more then half those loungers which would result in a huge shortage.  And how do they handle the large theaters, lounges bars, etc?   Consider Princess ships where there was not even enough seats in the theater with two shows.  If they only used half the seats (for social distancing) they would need 5 or 6 performances which is not going to happen.   And how on earth could they ever tender?  When we were on our last Princess cruise that stopped at Greenland it took nearly 5 hours to get everyone ashore even with full tenders.   Consider only putting about 50 souls in a tender which means it would take more then 60 tender loads at any port!  Not going to work.  And then there are the MDRs which are designed for the size ship.  The only way to accommodate social distancing in MDRs would be to reduce the number of passengers by at least 1/3!  These ships are not designed to make a profit at 2/3 capacity.   While mass market cruise lines will initially reduce capacity so they can operate this cannot continue for any length of time.

 

Lets face it.  As long as there is COVID in the world, and not a safe/effective vaccine, it is just a matter of time until 1 or more cases show-up on a ship.  Then what?

 

Hank

[caribill]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

  And how on earth could they ever tender?  When we were on our last Princess cruise that stopped at Greenland it took nearly 5 hours to get everyone ashore even with full tenders.   Consider only putting about 50 souls in a tender which means it would take more then 60 tender loads at any port!  Not going to work. 

 

The larger the ship capacity, the longer it takes to tender and the trend to larger ships means either limiting the itineraries to ports the ships can dock at or taking longer and longer to tender.

 

We were on the original Regal Princess which had a capacity of 2020 passengers. When it stopped at Île Royale (for Devils Island) it was time for all to be aboard when the last passengers coming ashore made it to shore.

 

The photo below shows some of the line waiting to get on the tender back to the ship.

 

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

These ships are not designed to make a profit at 2/3 capacity.   While mass market cruise lines will initially reduce capacity so they can operate this cannot continue for any length of time.

 

 

 

Royal Caribbean told stock analysts in May that their break even point on the newer ships is with a 30% load factor. With their older ships it is with a 50% load factor.

 

No reason to think that would not be about the same with Princess.

 

 

 

[Armchair Cruiser]

On 8/12/2020 at 12:04 AM, riffatsea said:

All the cruise lines were affected by this so not just Princess. We got our money back from our cancelled March cruise. It didn't matter to us that it took a while to get it. 

We have 2 cruises booked in 2021 but who knows if they will actually sail?

All the cruise lines are waiting to see what happens. If we here in the USA continue to ignore the guidelines about wearing masks and distancing then that will prevent things from getting better until a vaccine may be found. Then there will be those who refuse to take it. I think the selfishness of folks is more to blame than the cruise lines!

Well said.