Spirit of Adventure delayed again?

[lincslady]

Having done many cruises with Fred (though I grant not for quite a few years) and  quite a few with Saga, I think myself that the main difference between the two lines is ambiance - to be crude, Fred. (used to be anyway) more about bingo,  Saga more about classical quartets, and the occasional jazz concert.  I guess I am being a bit of a 'snob' here, and everyone has their own place to feel  included and at home.  And I am pretty sure that the choice of eating venues and food standard generally is better on Saga. 

 

But I also agree that the price per day will usually be higher on Saga.  

[Wacktle]

12 hours ago, JMyrtle said:

We received our refund within three days and found a weeks all inclusive including drinks and tips going out of Dover in April with Fred Olsen for less than the five day cruise refunded by Saga in December 

 

Recently I've priced up several Fred Olsen cruises and have found that a comparable cabin on one of the "new" Fred ships has always been considerably more expensive than a similar Saga cruise. We have cruised twice on Fred's old Boudicca. The first was a one night taster in a balcony cabin. Yes, it had a balcony, but little else, not even bedside tables because there was no room for any. Following that we were offered a balcony suite cabin on a 5 night Irish cruise out of Liverpool. Several short cruises had replaced a failed charter of the ship, and so they were keen to sell, and we got an excellent price. That cabin was good, but a couple of others of the same grade had lifeboats hanging outside. On their new ships I'd need to go above the Terrace Balcony grade to get equivalent to the cabin we had on Spirit of Discovery. Therefore it would be interesting to know exactly what you're comparing. To clarify, we have only booked a Saga cruise on 35% or 30% discount, or with the cancellation uplift.

[Glenndale]

We have a North American cruise booked with Saga 2021 with 35% discount, balcony under £6000 pp, 29 nights including drinks, transport, insurance and some excursions.

A similar cruise on P&O

https://www.pocruises.com/find-a-cruise/R114/R114

 

The P&O one is a day longer, check out the prices.

Of course it is all about booking early, but even down to a 5% discount on Saga there is still a large price difference

https://travel.saga.co.uk/purchase/checkout.aspx?packagecode=SD057&productid=95c178f6-5b98-45f5-b0ec-f15e798183c1&brand=Ocean Cruise&ship=Spirit of Discovery&availability=2&duration=1-999&boardbasis=AI

[JMyrtle]

Ah well we always go for a deal with Fred so our drinks and tips are included in what we pay, that's how we afford four or five cruises a year

We also live fifteen miles from Dover so we can always get a lift or a local taxi and as I have said before we have no use for a balcony cabin as we don't spend any time in the cabin and if it's rough the further up the ship the worse it gets so we prefer to be inside on the lowest deck possible. 

The comment about comparable bookings was an observation on their experience, people don't spend money needlessly and there is very little benefit of paying Saga's prices compared to Fred's. 

 

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

Ah well we always go for a deal with Fred so our drinks and tips are included in what we pay, that's how we afford four or five cruises a year

We also live fifteen miles from Dover so we can always get a lift or a local taxi and as I have said before we have no use for a balcony cabin as we don't spend any time in the cabin and if it's rough the further up the ship the worse it gets so we prefer to be inside on the lowest deck possible. 

The comment about comparable bookings was an observation on their experience, people don't spend money needlessly and there is very little benefit of paying Saga's prices compared to Fred's. 

 

But many of us like balconies. Did inside cabins when we were young - not doing  that again! Saga now only offer balconies, so will obviously be more expensive than an interior cabin on Fred.

If I look at similar balcony cabins on Fred versus Saga,  transport to port, free drinks etc, Saga is the cheaper option.

We don't spend money needlessly, but for us a balcony is essential, so not a needless waste of money. 

[JMyrtle]

Like I said we don't need transport to the port, we always book a deal on Fred with including drinks and a balcony isn't much use at night so Fred suits us best. 

We are nearly seventy years of age but  don't care for bingo or string quartets either,  jazz is OK but I prefer five bar blues however we are more into  Black Sabbath than Abba. 

We could easily afford Saga' s new ships just don't see the point of wasting the money when Fred is perfectly acceptable for our requirements. 

 

[wowzz]

7 hours ago, JMyrtle said:

perfectly acceptable for our requirements

As is always the case,  everyone has different requirements in life. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by wowzz

[Glenndale]

7 hours ago, JMyrtle said:

Like I said we don't need transport to the port, we always book a deal on Fred with including drinks and a balcony isn't much use at night so Fred suits us best. 

We are nearly seventy years of age but  don't care for bingo or string quartets either,  jazz is OK but I prefer five bar blues however we are more into  Black Sabbath than Abba. 

We could easily afford Saga' s new ships just don't see the point of wasting the money when Fred is perfectly acceptable for our requirements. 

 

Good for you, you’ve made your choice, but that’s not for everyone.

We all have different priorities and fortunately the choices out there are such that we all have the opportunity to find our best fit.

 

[wowzz]

19 minutes ago, Glenndale said:

Good for you, you’ve made your choice, but that’s not for everyone.

We all have different priorities and fortunately the choices out there are such that we all have the opportunity to find our best fit.

 

Exactly  - some people seem to be happy flying Ryanair for example!

[lincslady]

Don't want to start a Fred/Saga  comparison here, but if JMyrtle is still reading - I had forgotten that on Fred it was two sittings for dinner, same table and companions each night in the main restaurant.  Has this changed with the newer bigger ships?  It did become a deal breaker for us, one too early and the other too late.  

[wowzz]

9 minutes ago, lincslady said:

Don't want to start a Fred/Saga  comparison here, but if JMyrtle is still reading - I had forgotten that on Fred it was two sittings for dinner, same table and companions each night in the main restaurant.  Has this changed with the newer bigger ships?  It did become a deal breaker for us, one too early and the other too late.  

According to their web site, on the two older ships it is still fixed dining,  as you describe. No information available for the two newer ships.  

[Windsurfboy]

On 10/18/2020 at 12:01 PM, Glenndale said:

We have a North American cruise booked with Saga 2021 with 35% discount, balcony under £6000 pp, 29 nights including drinks, transport, insurance and some excursions.

A similar cruise on P&O

https://www.pocruises.com/find-a-cruise/R114/R114

 

The P&O one is a day longer, check out the prices.

Of course it is all about booking early, but even down to a 5% discount on Saga there is still a large price difference

https://travel.saga.co.uk/purchase/checkout.aspx?packagecode=SD057&productid=95c178f6-5b98-45f5-b0ec-f15e798183c1&brand=Ocean Cruise&ship=Spirit of Discovery&availability=2&duration=1-999&boardbasis=AI

 

P&O pricing is very distorted at the moment, due to tons of FCC in the system. when you actually try to book a balcony cabin on the cruise above they are sold out. Their computerised pricing system puts prices through the roof when very very few cabins are left and there is a year to go before the cruise.

 

Normally at launch  P&O are much cheaper , for example a 19 day med cruise for 2020 on P&O in a suite I booked at launch that  I just recieved refund for was £4900 each or  £260 a night, the Saga cruise you quote a suite is £480 a night (at 20% off),  would have been £390 a night with 35% off. Saga med cruises are similiar prices per night. Saga suites compare in price to Cunard QG not P&O

 

It will be 2023 before the distorting effects of FCC are out of the system and you can get a clear comparison between cruise lines

 

However I still consider (hope) Saga is or will be good value for what you get , if it lives up to its new positioning as a boutique luxury line and the food and service match the new ships.  Especially at launch prices,  I will preregister from now on.

 

As to Fred

 

To compare cruise lines must compare like with like. Everyone  chooses the cabin they that suits them, so clearly if two cruises in an inside on Fred suits someone more than  one week  in a Saga balcony , then Saga is not value for money for them.   From the bit of research I've done Saga is more expensive than Fred on a like for like cabin drinks inclusive basis. 

 

Saga has more spaces left on it's website than other lines out of UK, perhaps that is an indication that some of it's  existing customer base don't  like the new prices, or perhaps it could be they are just nervous about cruising.

 

We all have our own criteria and make our own choices. 

 

 

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Saga has more spaces left on it's website than other lines out of UK

That's interesting, but how can you tell if Iona for example, is 60% or 80% full, as P&O do not show full availability on their public booking page.

And how do you check availability when people choose unassigned cabins?

[Glenndale]

14 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

 

 

We all have our own criteria and make our own choices. 

 

 

Exactly what I said 😉

[Windsurfboy]

15 minutes ago, wowzz said:

That's interesting, but how can you tell if Iona for example, is 60% or 80% full, as P&O do not show full availability on their public booking page.

And how do you check availability when people choose unassigned cabins?

 

I try to book a specific cabin type and see how many cabins show up on the deck plan when you choose your cabin as an option

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

I try to book a specific cabin type and see how many cabins show up on the deck plan when you choose your cabin as an option

But unless you do,that with every cabin category, on every ship, on every cruise, how can you possibly say that Saga has more availability than, say Princess or P&O? 

[JMyrtle]

Hi everyone it's the "aging headbanger" here. 

Thank you for your kind comments, as you say we all have different views and perspectives in life. I was married to a senior army officer for nearly twenty five years so any suggestion of say a formal night or cocktail party has me running in the opposite direction, been there and bought the tee shirt as they say. 

I second the comment on Ryanair, a few years ago we needed to get to Belfast in a hurry for a funeral and they were the only choice, National Express is even a better option though the journey door to door is twenty four hours! 

In answer to the question about set dining  two of our Fred cruises are on Bolette, one of the new ships and on both we have an evening dining time of 6. 30 pm but it doesn't matter because I am type two diabetic kept in remission by diet so we prefer  self service as its easier and quicker. 

I'm hoping that if and when we finally sail self will be available again as its not good for diabetics to take a long time over an evening meal on a regular basis and with the main dining room menus it is nearly impossible to avoid carbohydrates which I need to do to control my blood sugar levels. 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by JMyrtle

[Windsurfboy]

16 hours ago, wowzz said:

But unless you do,that with every cabin category, on every ship, on every cruise, how can you possibly say that Saga has more availability than, say Princess or P&O? 

 

You don't  need to look at every  ship, cruise and cabin. You just need enough of a random sample,  which I've done mainly on P&O and Cunard and Fred,  the two biggest UK based cruise lines.  I've looked at the grades that are similiar to Saga , on a selection similiar length cruises to Saga  and similiar itineraries.  

 

The ONS only samples 0.1% of the British population every 2 weeks to give it good idea of what's going on in UK.  Random Sampling the basis of all surveys.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

Random Sampling the basis of all surveys.

Not with the market research companies I have employed. The likes of Ipsos carefully select the participants of any survey, so as to exactly replicate the demographic that they are surveying. Just plucking random respondents out of a hat is worse than useless.

Anyway, thanks for coming back and telling us your "methodology". At least we can now give your findings the appropriate respect.

[Windsurfboy]

I suppose by choosing cruise lengths and cabin sizes that matched Saga's offering it was the equivalent of  matching demographics . Although I must say I  was biased in that I tended to look at the bigger cabins and suites more.

 

 I hope we agree most market research question either hundreds or a few thousand people , they do not have to ask every (millions?) of potential consumers to be reasonably accurate .

 

As I  was finding a big difference, Saga being 2/3rds full in general but half full in suites  vs P&O , Cunard 90% full in general but  almost 100% full in suites , it didn't need that big a sample.

[Glenndale]

I tried to find a similar cruise in my example but have to say P&O  and Cunard do not make it easy to see all of the available cabins.

They also operate fluid pricing which can be disconcerting to some.

I will probably stick with Oceania and Saga in the future as I prefer the size of their ships.

Stay safe everyone.

 

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

half full in suites  vs P&O , Cunard 90% full in general but  almost 100% full in suites , it didn't need that big a sample.

I would agree that looking at suites it is fairly easy to get an idea of occupancy levels.

Given that Cunard had a much wider geographic  customer base (especially Americans with higher disposable incomes) than P&O or Saga I'm not in the least surprised that their suites are sold out.

9 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

hope we agree most market research question either hundreds or a few thousand people , they do not have to ask every (millions?) of potential consumers to be reasonably accurate .

I agree, as long as the sample is representative. If you are doing market research on, say, disposable nappies, it's pointless asking 1000 people, if only 10 of them are young mothers. You will get more meaningful data by interviewing 50 mothers. Sample selection is everything, and tends to be an expensive part of any  market research exercise.

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, Glenndale said:

I tried to find a similar cruise in my example but have to say P&O  and Cunard do not make it easy to see all of the available cabins.

They also operate fluid pricing which can be disconcerting to some.

I will probably stick with Oceania and Saga in the future as I prefer the size of their ships.

Stay safe everyone.

 

And P&O are notorious for not showing all available cabins on their public booking platform.

Edited October 20, 2020 by wowzz

[Windsurfboy]

32 minutes ago, wowzz said:

 

I agree, as long as the sample is representative. If you are doing market research on, say, disposable nappies, it's pointless asking 1000 people, if only 10 of them are young mothers. You will get more meaningful data by interviewing 50 mothers. Sample selection is everything, and tends to be an expensive part of any  market research exercise.

 

But in this case sample selection is done for us, cabins in cruise ships out of the UK.

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

But in this case sample selection is done for us, cabins in cruise ships out of the UK.

But you are not seeing full availability.

I accept you may be right about suites, but there is no way that you have looked at cabin availability on every Iona cruise for the next 12 months.