How Big is Too Big?

[LauraS]

As we reported last week in our news story, Royal Caribbean announced it would build cruising's biggest ship ever: The first in its proposed series of Genesis-class ships will measure a whopping 220,000 tons and carry 5,400 passengers. The ship, which will be 43 percent larger than Royal Caribbean's soon-to-be-launched Freedom of the Seas -- itself the biggest cruise ship ever built -- will be launched in fall 2009.

 

We want to know: Poll: How big is too big? Tell us how you feel and we'll publish the results next week.

Then, after you've told us, share with each other.......

[dougnewmanatsea]

Well, our Dear Leader did say to "share with each other", so here goes... My thoughts on one of the eternal questions we must deal with "How big is too big?"

 

 

1. Is the proposed Genesis class ship too big? Yes

 

2. Would you cruise on it? No

 

3. Tell us why or why not?

 

Well, I might take a cruise in her if it was free, but that's about it!

 

I find it very difficult to get to know passengers and crew on very large ships and in my experience food and service often suffer as well. Even on board ships in the upper reaches of the Panamax size range, I've often found it difficult to meet many passengers beyond the ones at my dinner table, or have personal contact with any crew members beyond my own dining room and cabin stewards. It's a very cold, impersonal experience.

 

My one cruise in VOYAGER OF THE SEAS was interesting, and I'm glad I did it once "for the experience", but I have no desire to repeat that experience, let alone in a ship like Genesis which will be even much more monstrous than the already far-too-big (for me) VOYAGER.

 

The ONLY very large ship I actually like is QM2, and I doubt I'd take her on anything other than an Atlantic crossing, which is VERY different from a cruise and where a big ship actually makes sense. When ports begin to get involved, big ships make sense for cruise lines interested in economies of scale, but little sense for passengers, or at least passengers like me who don't care about fripperies like skating rinks or 15 different alternative restaurants.

 

To me, 700 passengers and 30,000 GT or so is just about perfect for a cruise ship. The upper limit I try to adhere to is around 1,500 passengers or 70,000 GT, but it keeps going up simply because there are so few "human-scaled" that one can sail in these days without breaking the bank!

 

A liner (like QM2) is a different story, but even for a liner, QM2 is pushing it... And for me, something the size of Genesis would be too big even if she were a liner and not a cruise ship, while as a cruise ship, something that size strikes me as utterly ridiculous. But obviously the masses like their huge ships (or think they do, having maybe never tried something smaller), and who am I to tell them not to?

 

4. What features and amenities that don't exist yet on cruise ships would you propose?

 

None! I may sound like some kind of masochist but cruise ships have too many features and amenities already. The essentials of a good cruise are being lost among this veritable sea of "features" of highly questionable value.

 

The experience provided on many new mega-ships is like a car that has a lot of "features" but doesn't run particularly well! I don't care HOW many features a ship has if that ship can't get the basics right - and in my experience, the "features" of today's big ships just serve to distract passengers from the fact that the overall experience that usually tends towards the mediocre. But sadly, most passengers are too busy ogling the new "features" to that the cruise lines are forgetting how to get the basics right!

 

This presents an ideal situation for cruise lines - not only are big ships cheaper to run, their "features" cause passengers to accept a lower-quality product and yet be happier than ever before!

 

But to me the best features are a happy, genuinely caring crew, interesting and personable fellow passengers, good food, good enrichment programs and the like. These are all things that have little to do with the size of the ship, and that often have an inverse relationship with the "features" that are now proliferating rapidly in the mass-market cruise segment.

 

5. What existing features and amenities (Royal Caribbean and any other line for that matter) would you like to see on the new ship?

 

Isn't this question rather academic? I'm sure they'll all be there, and more!

 

6. Do you care about destinations at all on a ship like this? No

 

7. What would be the optimal itinerary for the ship? Other (please provide details)

 

Comments (if you answered "Other" for question 7):

 

She should anchor in International Waters off Florida for a week, with passengers "tendering" to various Caribbean islands on 10,000 GT day cruise ships!

 

And finally, tell us about yourself:

 

Age: 25 & Under

 

Number of cruises: I'm beginning to lose track!

 

Favorite line and favorite ship:

Favorite line: Holland America Line

Favorite ship of all time: ROTTERDAM (V)

Favorite ship currently in service: QUEEN ELIZABETH 2

Favorite "modern" ship: ROTTERDAM (VI)

 

Cruise Critic User Name: Host Doug

So there you have them - my thoughts on "how big is too big"...

 

Now, anyone else care to share theirs - or have my curmudgeonly ramblings scared you off ;) ?

[RuthC]

I answered the poll with similar thoughts, but was not nearly as eloquent as you.

Haven't a clue how to retrieve my ramblings, either. Perhaps that's for the best.

[dougnewmanatsea]

but was not nearly as eloquent as you.

Don't be so modest!

 

It's nice to know that you like my drivel though... Even if I'm not sure why ;) ...

 

Haven't a clue how to retrieve my ramblings, either.

Sorry, can't help you there. I didn't retrieve mine; I saved them before I hit "send".

[Krazy Kruizers]

I answered the poll. Didn't get quite as elaborate as Host Doug.

[Host Walt]

I answered the poll. Didn't get quite as elaborate as Host Doug.

Few do, but as always, Doug's comments expressed my feelings quite well so I kept mine very short.

 

There are no ports that can handle 5000+ pax well if they arrive all at one time nor is there any sense of shared experience with that many people.

 

The good news? By taking 5000+ people who apparently love large crowds off the other ships RCI will be creating an improved opportunity to enjoy "smaller" ships like the Statendam.

 

The Genesis will create a new concept for leisure activities and will likely change the market demographics for the current cruise industry.

[NapTown Jim]

I'm seeing ALOT of negative comments on other boards about this thing Walt. Even the loyal RCI crowd seems split over it. I wonder if this thing is going to go over like a lead baloon and if RCI may sell the hull to Italy or someone to convert into an aircraft carrier.

 

Neither I or my DW have any interest in sailing it whatsoever. I feel that thing is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

When will we see the results of your poll?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Everyone knows that when asked for an opinion, I'm only too happy to oblige!!!:)

 

I obviously said "yes" ... much too big! You can't put over 5000 people in a confined place and expect you won't have a ton of problems. Among other things, they will need a complete police force for this size group. 5000 people who don't have to drive home ... I shudder at the thought.

 

No, I would never cruise on it or any other ship with that many people. In fact, 2000 is my cutoff point ... gross tonnage doesn't matter to me. In order for that number of people to be okay with me, I'd need a golf cart to get where I'm going.

 

Like Doug (and you were so eloquent!), I need no more features or amenities. In fact, they can take several away. I cruise to enjoy the open sea and stop in some interesting ports (preferably at a dock). Can you even imagine tendering ashore from that ship? I'm shuddering again.

 

LOVE Doug's suggestion for the optimal itinerary! And I LOVE Walt's point that this may take all the people who love huge ships off to another venue. That way we can continue to cruise on the smaller ships with others who agree that "big" isn't necessarily "better".

 

So all in all a terrible idea in my opinion, but mark my words people will flock and they will fill, live long and prosper. They just keep pushing the envelope. I remember when I wouldn't cruise on a ship over 1000:o .

 

So I'm not as eloquent as Doug for sure, but I sure can ramble!!!:)

[roberteconnors]

Everyone knows that when asked for an opinion, I'm only too happy to oblige!!!:)

 

I obviously said "yes" ... much too big! You can't put over 5000 people in a confined place and expect you won't have a ton of problems. Among other things, they will need a complete police force for this size group. 5000 people who don't have to drive home ... I shudder at the thought.

 

No, I would never cruise on it or any other ship with that many people. In fact, 2000 is my cutoff point ... gross tonnage doesn't matter to me. In order for that number of people to be okay with me, I'd need a golf cart to get where I'm going.

 

Like Doug (and you were so eloquent!), I need no more features or amenities. In fact, they can take several away. I cruise to enjoy the open sea and stop in some interesting ports (preferably at a dock). Can you even imagine tendering ashore from that ship? I'm shuddering again.

 

LOVE Doug's suggestion for the optimal itinerary! And I LOVE Walt's point that this may take all the people who love huge ships off to another venue. That way we can continue to cruise on the smaller ships with others who agree that "big" isn't necessarily "better".

 

So all in all a terrible idea in my opinion, but mark my words people will flock and they will fill, live long and prosper. They just keep pushing the envelope. I remember when I wouldn't cruise on a ship over 1000:o .

 

So I'm not as eloquent as Doug for sure, but I sure can ramble!!!:)

 

As I said in the poll response, I predict a massive outbreak of Norwalk Virus. I would like to see a ski jump with real snow, however, and downriggers for blue marlin off of the stern. I also expect that the topless bathing area will be expanded, and will include seats in the viewing area for dirty old men like me, over the age of 50.

[djallar]

I'm seeing ALOT of negative comments on other boards about this thing Walt. Even the loyal RCI crowd seems split over it. I wonder if this thing is going to go over like a lead baloon and if RCI may sell the hull to Italy or someone to convert into an aircraft carrier.

 

Neither I or my DW have any interest in sailing it whatsoever. I feel that thing is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

When will we see the results of your poll?

My comment was that "if you're going to have 5,000 people on a ship, it better be launching F-18's off the bow..."

[AAAAmerican]

Size does either way some like small some like large some like middle...so the point is < > in an American Nutshell.. size is a personal choice.

 

Oh no an American freedom the biggest one :eek:

[Captain Crunch]

I didn't notice this until Heather pointed out Ruth's comments in the article. I'm pretty bipolar on this. RCI wouldn't spend the money on the ship unless they felt they'd get a return on their investment, so I guess there is a call for this type of ship. So I'm all for it, except it seems to big for me. But for someone else? Well, whatever floats your boat,errr, ship.

[Himself]

I think half the size of the Genesis would still be too big. Personally I think the HAL ships are getting a bit big. The RC Genesis is not mega--it is a monster ship.

[AAAAmerican]

Will it fit in another vessel too? Like in a C-130 cargo Aircraft?

 

Then having those going to other Ports... beaches...

 

Thats what I would really call the MOTHER SHIP.. Frank Zappa did.. Captain BeefHeart too...:eek:

 

Has anyone ever named a Cruise Ship the MOTHER SHIP yet? Maybe then you would get good grub...YUM-YUM...

[bob brown]

While I agree with most that 5000 passengers is too many (just see for yourself on a Staten Island Ferry during rush hour!), and it would be a nuisance making ports of call, etc., I still applaud RCI for having the guts to "push the envelope" way out there. Many were wringing their hands over the Voyager class being too big when originally proposed, but it sure turned out to be a great success. I personally prefer ships of the size of the Rotterdam, and will make most of my cruises on such, but I still would try anything new out there just for the experience.

[HeatherInFlorida]

.............I still applaud RCI for having the guts to "push the envelope" way out there. ..............

 

I just can't feel this way. I'm tired of envelopes being pushed to be honest. Envelopes are being pushed in every walk of life and I'm not sure the result is a positive one. Just an opinion ... nothing more.:)

[bob brown]

Heather...I'm sure you've heard the old nautical saying..."A ship in the harbor is safe....but that is not what ships are for". We may like to see things remain comfortably as they are forever, but whether we like it or not ,the world is changing, and we must change along with it or be left behind. I imagine a large portion of Mariners dislike ships the size of the Vista class, but HAL has to build them that large or larger, in order to remain a viable cruise line.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather...I'm sure you've heard the old nautical saying..."A ship in the harbor is safe....but that is not what ships are for". We may like to see things remain comfortably as they are forever, but whether we like it or not ,the world is changing, and we must change along with it or be left behind..............

 

Bob, I'm sorry ... I just can't agree. I don't have to change along with it and I don't think I'll be left behind.

 

I have no problem with change. In fact, I embrace change. I don't read that quote the way you do. Change to increase receipts and nothing more is not necessarily a change for the better. And the only reason to make the ship bigger in order to hold more of humanity is the almighty dollar.

 

Magnificence in a ship is reflected in its beauty to the eye as she sails on the sea. When ships reach the size we're discussing here, they cease to be beautiful. And the quality of the service we have come to enjoy will slowly be lost tous. While ships holding 2000 are not my first choice, I have no criticism of them. But when we reach 5000 in such a confined space the envelope has been pushed a wee bit too far.

 

It's just my opinion ... doesn't mean anything. But I want to be clear I'm not trying to be safe with the "way things were" ... I just happen to enjoy the experience at sea without feeling I've been jammed into a sardine can.

 

Vanilla and chocolate ... we don't have to agree:)

[bob brown]

One point...being bigger doesn't necessarily have to mean more crowded. On the other hand, it can mean more space. Compare the space ratio between the Vista class and the S class ships....see what I mean?

Okay we can agree to disagree. Anyway, I like vanilla AND chocolate! :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

................I like vanilla AND chocolate! :)

 

Well, there you go!!!:D That explains it.;)

[Quo Vadis?]

I normally don't cruise on larger ships but that does not mean I would not go there for a visit. I live in a city of 40,000 people. I would not dream of living in a city of over 1,000,000 but I do realize that large cities have more attractions than my "town".

 

Some people will find that two's company, three's a crowd. Others are only happy in crowded situations.

 

My main concern is security... My what a lovely target that would be.

Another is disembarkation at different ports. We were in Acapulco at the pier when Queen Mary was forced to tender all its pax ashore. What a pain and what a line up!

 

Any visitor in a metropolis can be found staring at the skyscrapers. What will this ship offer that smaller ships cannot? For curiosity alone it will be a success. How often have we been in port and looked with admiration or distain at ships docked near our own?

[Willsot]

My gut reaction is about the same as when I see a Hummer pass me in my VW.

[Roz]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the cruise terminals. How can so many people be processed? Short of assigning people embarkation times (which I doubt would work), I don't see how you could avoid long lines outside the terminal.

 

I would think the ship itself would have to be set up so that passenger could embark and debard at 2 or 3 gangways instead of just one.

 

Would not want to be in a port at the same time as one of these 5,000+ passenger ships.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some ports bar them from docking. The negatives associated with that many passengers would far outweigh the positives, IMO.

 

Roz

[frobert]

I guess size does matter .....LOL