Letter of Employment Sent to Waiter on Navigator of the Seas. Looks Like Short Sailings Are A Go November 1st.

[Mapleleafforever]

39 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

If I heard correctly NCL has installed them - don't know about RCG or Carnaval.  The older ships might present a challenge in this regard. 

I don't think they'll be allowed to sail in the US until they're installed (1).....maybe that's why the Billionaire is wanting to unload his stocks? 

 

(1) Saw it on a youtube video so it must be true lol

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Any idea if the ships have the new air filtration systems installed yet? 

 

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

If I heard correctly NCL has installed them - don't know about RCG or Carnaval.  The older ships might present a challenge in this regard. 

 

1 hour ago, Mapleleafforever said:

I don't think they'll be allowed to sail in the US until they're installed (1).....maybe that's why the Billionaire is wanting to unload his stocks? 

 

(1) Saw it on a youtube video so it must be true lol

Nothing in the No Sail Order, any of it's extentions, or even in the Covid Guidance for Ships from the CDC mandates any changes to air filtration, or maintenance to HVAC systems, as it is not felt that these provide a significant transmission vector for the virus.

[Arizona Wildcat]

13 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

Duplicate ugh! Why isn't there a way to completely delete a post?

There is a way to delete. Simply flag your own post and ask the moderator to delete it.  In a while it will be gone

[Mapleleafforever]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

 

 

Nothing in the No Sail Order, any of it's extentions, or even in the Covid Guidance for Ships from the CDC mandates any changes to air filtration, or maintenance to HVAC systems, as it is not felt that these provide a significant transmission vector for the virus.

LOL really?? It's an airborne virus!! Airplanes already have HEPA filters onboard.....cruise lines will most likely need to follow suit. 

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

At this point in time, it is highly unlikely that cruises will restart in December out of the United States.  The CDC has given no indication that they are willing to lift the no-sail order.  There are no ports open to cruise ships.  The US does not allow cruises to nowhere.  RCG trying to raise an additional 1 billion indicates that they are expecting a longer than expected pause in cruising.  It could be February or later when we see the return of cruising.  The Covid cases in Florida, although lower than in July, are not as low as they should be. I'm hoping cruising restarts earlier but it is not looking good for December at all. 

I agree that cruises will not return in November.  December likely for crew only cruises.  

Once approval for cruising is given, crews are assembled, quaranteened, trained and given a few short cruises to nowhere then and only then can cruising resume.

I cruises to nowhere from the US cannot happen but there are private islands that could work.

For "real" cruising to resume ports need to open.  Can anyone see how that can happen in 2020?  Thus when?  Maybe spring 2021?

[Mapleleafforever]

4 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

I agree that cruises will not return in November.  December likely for crew only cruises.  

Once approval for cruising is given, crews are assembled, quaranteened, trained and given a few short cruises to nowhere then and only then can cruising resume.

I cruises to nowhere from the US cannot happen but there are private islands that could work.

For "real" cruising to resume ports need to open.  Can anyone see how that can happen in 2020?  Thus when?  Maybe spring 2021?

From the US? My guess, Summer 2021 to coincide with Royal's new Summer schedule. That is an absolute guess based on my opinions alone.....I could be wrong because you cannot underestimate corporate greed. 

[time4u2go]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

At this point in time, it is highly unlikely that cruises will restart in December out of the United States.  The CDC has given no indication that they are willing to lift the no-sail order.  There are no ports open to cruise ships.  The US does not allow cruises to nowhere.  RCG trying to raise an additional 1 billion indicates that they are expecting a longer than expected pause in cruising.  It could be February or later when we see the return of cruising.  The Covid cases in Florida, although lower than in July, are not as low as they should be. I'm hoping cruising restarts earlier but it is not looking good for December at all. 

And they are starting to tick back up, ever so slightly, over the past 10 days or so.  Hopefully that doesn't continue.

[A&L_Ont]

5 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

My next door neighbor, who is a Primary Care Physician, is sick at home with COVID19. At least 5 in his office tested positive. He, his wife, and 4 kids are now in quarantine. His office is shut down but he is seeing as many patients he can from home, via telemedicine. 

 

M8

Not good for their family. I hope they power through as best as possible. ❤️

[livingonthebeach]

23 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

 

Nothing in the No Sail Order, any of it's extentions, or even in the Covid Guidance for Ships from the CDC mandates any changes to air filtration, or maintenance to HVAC systems, as it is not felt that these provide a significant transmission vector for the virus.

 

I believe these are self-imposed by the cruise lines rather than CDC mandates.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=5474

[Mapleleafforever]

13 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I believe these are self-imposed by the cruise lines rather than CDC mandates.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=5474

Question, has the CDC even given any official mandates as of yet?

[livingonthebeach]

7 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Question, has the CDC even given any official mandates as of yet?

 

Not as of yet.  They have the Healthy Sail Panel Report from NCL and RCG but haven't come to any conclusions or orders. The no-sail order expires on October 31st and can be renewed. 

[Mapleleafforever]

44 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Not as of yet.  They have the Healthy Sail Panel Report from NCL and RCG but haven't come to any conclusions or orders. The no-sail order expires on October 31st and can be renewed. 

That's what I thought, thanks. 

[Arizona Wildcat]

59 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

That's what I thought, thanks. 

The RCL resumption of cruising will be out of Singapore.  Not Florida.  They can do cruises to nowhere from Singapore.  From call up to being ready to start cruises about 6-8 weeks from a Carnival interview on CNBC last week.

What will happen with the White House and CDC?  Until after the election likely nothing because of both rising COVID and politics.  The cruiselines cannot afford a COVID outbreak.  Singapore with no long distance travel to the port will give the cruise lines the opportunity to try their protocols and hopefully improve them.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

LOL really?? It's an airborne virus!! Airplanes already have HEPA filters onboard.....cruise lines will most likely need to follow suit. 

While it is an airborne virus, there is no data to date that it can survive in a viable condition after traveling hundreds of feet down a return air duct, through a filter and air handler, and then back hundreds of feet to the space being air conditioned.  This is why there is no push to install filters in every building in the world (they all use recirculated air), or even smaller systems like bars and restaurants.  Even air filter industry groups will admit there is no indication that the use of HEPA filters would actually do anything in remediation of covid.  And, the airlines had HEPA filters long before covid.  As stated before, the CDC does not recommend any modification or cleaning of a ship's HVAC system, even in remediation of an outbreak of covid onboard.

 

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I believe these are self-imposed by the cruise lines rather than CDC mandates.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=5474

That's why I said it wasn't required, so that ships could restart without any modifications to the HVAC systems.

[livingonthebeach]

10 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

The RCL resumption of cruising will be out of Singapore.  Not Florida.  They can do cruises to nowhere from Singapore.  From call up to being ready to start cruises about 6-8 weeks from a Carnival interview on CNBC last week.

What will happen with the White House and CDC?  Until after the election likely nothing because of both rising COVID and politics.  The cruiselines cannot afford a COVID outbreak.  Singapore with no long distance travel to the port will give the cruise lines the opportunity to try their protocols and hopefully improve them.

 

The sailings out of Singapore begin on December 1st on Quantum.  So Singapore will likely lead the restart for RCG.  A good sign is that Costa and MSC have already restarted in Europe and Genting has been cruising in Asia.  The Royal Singapore cruise on Quantum is almost sold out.  These are all positive signs.  Hopefully, all goes well with the Singapore cruises and the protocols can be tested. 

 

I agree that not much will happen before the election.  The CDC will probably extend the no-sail order to match the self-imposed pause of the cruise lines. 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

I cruises to nowhere from the US cannot happen but there are private islands that could work.

The only way that cruises to private islands would work is if the country where the island was (typically the Bahamas) was to make an exception to their national public health rules and allow the ships to dock there.  Just because an island is privately owned, or leased, doesn't make it exempt from the laws of the nation to which it belongs.

[Ourusualbeach]

On the weekly Wednesday webinar for travel agents they let us know the topic for next weeks webinar.

 

Today they gave us two topics, planned and an alternate.

 

Can't remember what the planned topic was but the alternate topic is "Resumption of Cruising"  Royal is waiting to hear from the CDC and they said if they hear this week or early next then the topic next week would be "Resumption of Cruising"

 

Other topics of interest;

 

 - no planned extension on FCC's

 - look for a possible announcement on West Coast itineraries

 - new itinerary release to basically mirror last years release...look for early next month

Edited October 14, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

While it is an airborne virus, there is no data to date that it can survive in a viable condition after traveling hundreds of feet down a return air duct, through a filter and air handler, and then back hundreds of feet to the space being air conditioned.  This is why there is no push to install filters in every building in the world (they all use recirculated air), or even smaller systems like bars and restaurants.  Even air filter industry groups will admit there is no indication that the use of HEPA filters would actually do anything in remediation of covid.  And, the airlines had HEPA filters long before covid.  As stated before, the CDC does not recommend any modification or cleaning of a ship's HVAC system, even in remediation of an outbreak of covid onboard.

 

That's why I said it wasn't required, so that ships could restart without any modifications to the HVAC systems.

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I for one, would feel a lot better if they installed HEPA filters and other air filtration systems.  Understood that it is not required by the CDC, but I, as I am sure some people would feel safer if they did -- not necessary as you point out but this would make people believe they are more secure. Maybe a false sense of security?  Don't know. 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Question, has the CDC even given any official mandates as of yet?

 

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Not as of yet.  They have the Healthy Sail Panel Report from NCL and RCG but haven't come to any conclusions or orders. The no-sail order expires on October 31st and can be renewed. 

The CDC does not give mandates, as such.  They made their requirements known in the no sail order, based on their area of expertise, infectious disease, and the "best practices" in their industry.  They expect action plans from the cruise lines detailing how the cruise lines will meet those requirements, or whether the requirements are unobtainable, based on their area of expertise, operating cruise ships.  The CDC has held to their best practices since the original no sail order, and are merely waiting for the action plans from the cruise lines.

[chengkp75]

Just now, livingonthebeach said:

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I for one, would feel a lot better if they installed HEPA filters and other air filtration systems.  Understood that it is not required by the CDC, but I, as I am sure some people would feel safer if they did -- not necessary as you point out but this would make people believe they are more secure. Maybe a false sense of security?  Don't know. 

This is what even air filtration industry groups say, "it can't hurt", but whether the cost is outweighed by the benefit of a feeling of "perceived" increase in safety is another question.  It is also not just a matter of sticking HEPA filters in place, as these typically have a higher flow resistance, or tend to load up more quickly, reducing flow, and so HVAC efficiency drops, and we've all heard the complaints about "cruise lines saving money by turning the AC off at night".

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

 

The CDC does not give mandates, as such.  They made their requirements known in the no sail order, based on their area of expertise, infectious disease, and the "best practices" in their industry.  They expect action plans from the cruise lines detailing how the cruise lines will meet those requirements, or whether the requirements are unobtainable, based on their area of expertise, operating cruise ships.  The CDC has held to their best practices since the original no sail order, and are merely waiting for the action plans from the cruise lines.

 

Wasn't the Healthly Sail Plan Report sent to the CDC for approval / recommendations?  So based on what you are saying the ball is in the cruise lines' court?  The report general and now the CDC needs the details from the cruise lines? 

 

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Duplicate

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[Mapleleafforever]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While it is an airborne virus, there is no data to date that it can survive in a viable condition after traveling hundreds of feet down a return air duct, through a filter and air handler, and then back hundreds of feet to the space being air conditioned.  This is why there is no push to install filters in every building in the world (they all use recirculated air), or even smaller systems like bars and restaurants.  Even air filter industry groups will admit there is no indication that the use of HEPA filters would actually do anything in remediation of covid.  And, the airlines had HEPA filters long before covid.  As stated before, the CDC does not recommend any modification or cleaning of a ship's HVAC system, even in remediation of an outbreak of covid onboard.

 

That's why I said it wasn't required, so that ships could restart without any modifications to the HVAC systems.

Is there data to suggest that it can't? There's a reason some Cruise lines are installing HEPA filters, one more big outbreak on a ship could end cruising altogether......

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=5474

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Wasn't the Healthly Sail Plan Report sent to the CDC for approval / recommendations?  So based on what you are saying the ball is in the cruise lines' court?  The report general and now the CDC needs the details from the cruise lines? 

 

The Healthy Sail report is just that, an advisory board's recommendations, and essentially a "negotiating paper" to see if the recommendations, in general, meet the CDC's requirements.  In other words, "here is what we propose, does in general meet your requirements?".  If the CDC agrees, then the cruise lines need to come up with detailed action plans, similar to what is required for response to oil spills and such, that specifically call out detailed procedures and protocols, to be performed by what person onboard, and to list the actual contracted private health care facilities, private general and medical transportation services, and private quarantine facilities, and the contact information for these companies, and the contracted for assets (how many hospital beds, how many quarantine rooms, etc, etc).  I think the cruise lines are still a long way from having these plans developed.

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The Healthy Sail report is just that, an advisory board's recommendations, and essentially a "negotiating paper" to see if the recommendations, in general, meet the CDC's requirements.  In other words, "here is what we propose, does in general meet your requirements?".  If the CDC agrees, then the cruise lines need to come up with detailed action plans, similar to what is required for response to oil spills and such, that specifically call out detailed procedures and protocols, to be performed by what person onboard, and to list the actual contracted private health care facilities, private general and medical transportation services, and private quarantine facilities, and the contact information for these companies, and the contracted for assets (how many hospital beds, how many quarantine rooms, etc, etc).  I think the cruise lines are still a long way from having these plans developed.

 

When do you think the CDC will accept or reject the general recommendations?  It's been almost a month now.  Don't the cruise lines need to know the answer before proceeding with detailed plans?