Cruise to nowhere & Jones Act

[bettyboop16]

I have a question, Did the cruises to nowhere have to stop because of the Jones Act? I'm talking before Covid 19.

[Shmoo here]

8 minutes ago, bettyboop16 said:

I have a question, Did the cruises to nowhere have to stop because of the Jones Act? I'm talking before Covid 19.

First, it's not the Jones Act (that pertains to cargo).  I'm figuring you mean the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA).  

 

No, the PVSA does not effect the cruises to nowhere.  They were stopped due to  a court decision (involving the CBP) regarding employment of foreign nationals in the USA.  A cruise to nowhere is deemed "employment in the USA" since it doesn't touch any foreign land, and the work visa required for foreign nationals to work in the USA is more involved (and costly) than the ones needed for foreign nationals to work onboard a ship that actually stops in other countries.  Most cruise lines (apparently) don't want to get involved with all those legalities/costs and opted to stop cruises to nowhere.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Shmoo here

[Flatbush Flyer]

12 minutes ago, bettyboop16 said:

I have a question, Did the cruises to nowhere have to stop because of the Jones Act? I'm talking before Covid 19.

The Jones Act has nothing to do with cruises. It refers to shipping. Perhaps you mean the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA). 

And the PVSA applies to cruise ships whose itineraries are US based (e.g., L.A. to L.A. where the ship would need to visit some place like Ensenada). 

In any case, a cruise-to-nowhere from/to the same US port would more appropriately be considered a boat ride at least or a ferry ride at best. That's a whole other can-of-worms minimally involving necessary visas for foreign nationals working "in the US."

Edited October 10, 2020 by Flatbush Flyer

[chengkp75]

According to CBP, while cruises to nowhere are specifically allowed under the PVSA, they were never legal from CBP's viewpoint regarding  crew visas, and were only allowed on periodic scheduling when one or two were needed to align itineraries.

 

The court case mentioned above was Resorts World Bimini Superfast (owned by Genting Group, a past owner of NCLH, and owner of Star and Genting cruises) v Winkowski, and came about when they tried to expand their gambling cruises to nowhere out of Fort Lauderdale.  Once the court ruled against Bimini Superfast, CBP had to hold the other cruise lines to the same standard, and started enforcing the ban on cruises to nowhere.

[Shmoo here]

30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

According to CBP, while cruises to nowhere are specifically allowed under the PVSA, they were never legal from CBP's viewpoint regarding  crew visas, and were only allowed on periodic scheduling when one or two were needed to align itineraries.

 

The court case mentioned above was Resorts World Bimini Superfast (owned by Genting Group, a past owner of NCLH, and owner of Star and Genting cruises) v Winkowski, and came about when they tried to expand their gambling cruises to nowhere out of Fort Lauderdale.  Once the court ruled against Bimini Superfast, CBP had to hold the other cruise lines to the same standard, and started enforcing the ban on cruises to nowhere.

Thank you for the specifics.  I didn't know all the details.

[Toofarfromthesea]

Would a cruise be OK if the only port of call was their own private island?  Say a 7 day MSC cruise whose only stop was their private Ocean Cay?

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Would a cruise be OK if the only port of call was their own private island?  Say a 7 day MSC cruise whose only stop was their private Ocean Cay?

A private island is still part of another country, so yes, that would be legal, but just because it is a "private" island does not mean the ship is immune to the customs and immigration (and public health) laws of the country it belongs to.

 

There are several "private" islands in Maine (the entire island is owned by one person).  While they can travel to and from that island by boat freely to the US, if they were to come from Canada and their first stop was their "private" island, then they would have to report their arrival to CBP, just as if they entered the US anywhere else.

[Toofarfromthesea]

44 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

A private island is still part of another country, so yes, that would be legal, but just because it is a "private" island does not mean the ship is immune to the customs and immigration (and public health) laws of the country it belongs to.

 

There are several "private" islands in Maine (the entire island is owned by one person).  While they can travel to and from that island by boat freely to the US, if they were to come from Canada and their first stop was their "private" island, then they would have to report their arrival to CBP, just as if they entered the US anywhere else.

 

Thanks.

Would you happen to know what country MSC's Ocean Cay belongs to?

[Tapi]

3 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Would you happen to know what country MSC's Ocean Cay belongs to?

Bahamas

[njhorseman]

10 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Thanks.

Would you happen to know what country MSC's Ocean Cay belongs to?

The Bahamas.

Note: I didn't see the earlier post answering the question. Sorry for the unnecessary posting.

Edited October 11, 2020 by njhorseman

[Toofarfromthesea]

4 hours ago, Tapi said:

Bahamas

 

4 hours ago, njhorseman said:

The Bahamas.

Note: I didn't see the earlier post answering the question. Sorry for the unnecessary posting.

 

Thanks to both of you.