Great Article on how Costa Cruises have Re-opened

[OzCanuck]

10 hours ago, nocl said:

I do believe the context of the no threat included "at this time"  and "that is subject to change". The no threat was a small part of the entire statement.

Details like these are just so inconvenient for the narrative though!

[Hlitner]

9 hours ago, OzCanuck said:

Details like these are just so inconvenient for the narrative though!

Learning how to hedge one's comments is a hallmark of both politicians and bureaucrats.  That being said, the world is not going to end.....at this time!   When I worked for our State government I actually attended meetings hosted by attorneys who taught us how to "properly word" discussions and letters to avoid potential legal issues.  The key is to never be definitive about anything.  That is why a wise witness in court or at a hearing will always say things like, "to the best of my knowledge the sun will rise tomorrow."  or "To the best of my recollection I went to elementary school."   Dr. Fauci has had a lifetime to learn how to carefully construct his remarks.  But, to the best of my knowledge I am reasonably optimistic that many of his comments back in Feb and March were possibly misleading :).

 

By the way, Dr. Fauci was on 60 Minutes last night and could not help himself when it came to answering the question, "would you use a COVID vaccine approved by the FDA?"  (this quote is approximate).   His answer was something along the lines of "I would first look at the supporting data."   I think if we were to ask Dr. Fauci if his advice on COVID was good advice he would respond along the lines of "I am optimistic that my remarks are reasonably valid today!"   Such is the life of the bureaucrat.   

 

Hank

P.S.  At this time I am reasonably pessimistic that any mass market  cruise will embark from a US Port prior to December 15.  Of course this may not come to pass in which case I am reasonably optimistic that my prediction is possibly incorrect.  🙂

 

 

 

Hank

[kazu]

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

But, to the best of my knowledge I am reasonably optimistic that many of his comments back in Feb and March were possibly misleading :).

 

Misleading perhaps but not dishonest.

 

The scientists told what they knew at the time.  They thought it was similar to the cold and that symptomatic people spread it.  Since that early time in Feb & Mar they have discovered that asymptomatic people spread it and therefore recommended masks.

That’s what science is about - learning and evolving. Many scientists have said this and Fauci said he was wrong on 60 minutes during an interview the other night.  

 

No one is perfect.  They can only go by what they know and what they find out.

[nocl]

13 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Learning how to hedge one's comments is a hallmark of both politicians and bureaucrats.  That being said, the world is not going to end.....at this time!   When I worked for our State government I actually attended meetings hosted by attorneys who taught us how to "properly word" discussions and letters to avoid potential legal issues.  The key is to never be definitive about anything.  That is why a wise witness in court or at a hearing will always say things like, "to the best of my knowledge the sun will rise tomorrow."  or "To the best of my recollection I went to elementary school."   Dr. Fauci has had a lifetime to learn how to carefully construct his remarks.  But, to the best of my knowledge I am reasonably optimistic that many of his comments back in Feb and March were possibly misleading :).

 

By the way, Dr. Fauci was on 60 Minutes last night and could not help himself when it came to answering the question, "would you use a COVID vaccine approved by the FDA?"  (this quote is approximate).   His answer was something along the lines of "I would first look at the supporting data."   I think if we were to ask Dr. Fauci if his advice on COVID was good advice he would respond along the lines of "I am optimistic that my remarks are reasonably valid today!"   Such is the life of the bureaucrat.   

 

Hank

P.S.  At this time I am reasonably pessimistic that any mass market  cruise will embark from a US Port prior to December 15.  Of course this may not come to pass in which case I am reasonably optimistic that my prediction is possibly incorrect.  🙂

 

 

 

Hank

However on Jan 21st when those comments were made there was exactly 1 diagnosed COVID patient in the US and that was a person in Seattle that just came form China.  At that point the outbreak was similar to the SARS outbreak a few years ago which never did reach the US. At that time there was no hint of asymptomatic spread, China was still denying direct human to human spread.

 

It would be entertaining to go back to the end of January and early February and see what people here posted back then. See if the people that are criticizing comments made in that time frame by those that have the responsibility to lead, were any more accurate.  It is very easy to criticize when one has neither the authority or the responsibility.

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

 

Misleading perhaps but not dishonest.

 

The scientists told what they knew at the time.  They thought it was similar to the cold and that symptomatic people spread it.  Since that early time in Feb & Mar they have discovered that asymptomatic people spread it and therefore recommended masks.

That’s what science is about - learning and evolving. Many scientists have said this and Fauci said he was wrong on 60 minutes during an interview the other night.  

 

No one is perfect.  They can only go by what they know and what they find out.

I beg (and I do hate to beg) to disagree :).  Science is not about speculation but about scientific proof.   When I was a paramedic (in another life) one of the profound questions was "is the practice of medicine science or an art."   These days so much of what should be called educated guesses is called science!  A day doesn't pass when you won't hear some politician say "follow the science" why they completely ignore real science and make most of their decisions based on speculation and expediency.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

7 minutes ago, nocl said:

However on Jan 21st when those comments were made there was exactly 1 diagnosed COVID patient in the US and that was a person in Seattle that just came form China.  At that point the outbreak was similar to the SARS outbreak a few years ago which never did reach the US. At that time there was no hint of asymptomatic spread, China was still denying direct human to human spread.

 

It would be entertaining to go back to the end of January and early February and see what people here posted back then. See if the people that are criticizing comments made in that time frame by those that have the responsibility to lead, were any more accurate.  It is very easy to criticize when one has neither the authority or the responsibility.

Somewhere on CC there is an old post of mine (must have been sometime in April or May) where I made a statement that "we still do not know much about COVID" and "we do not know what we do not know"  only to be challenged by another poster who claimed that we already knew just about everything about COVID.   Here we are about 10 months into this disease and we still know very little about the long term morbidities associated with this virus.   In fact, there are also remaining questions about how this virus spreads (much of what we hear about the spread is based on speculation and yet to be proven).  That is what I find frightening about COVID.  To again use one of my favorite old quotes (which I first learned from Dr Fauci during the early days of the AIDS epidemic) which is when it comes to COVID "we do not know what we do not know!

 

Hank

[kazu]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

A day doesn't pass when you won't hear some politician say "follow the science" why they completely ignore real science and make most of their decisions based on speculation and expediency.

 

 

Well, we will agree to disagree as our experience here in the Northern Tundra is different than south of the border.  Our politicians are trying to follow science.

Contact and trace is big in the Atlantic Bubble.  If there is an outbreak then that zone goes back to code orange (which is not a lockdown) but a limit on the number of people in your bubble.and certain industries have a capacity limit, of course.  But all our restaurants, etc have a capacity limit right now.

We have been fortunate in our zone.  I go to my dentist, my doctor and my hair stylist with a mask, answer a few covid questions and all is good.  I have my little bubble of 8 households/people and while I miss my family and friends that are not in the Atlantic Bubble, we are doing quite well here being careful.

 

Unlike news reports  I have seen there is no objection to a mask here.  Masks are mandatory in a store or any public place (as it should be).  Those who had a serious outbreak (keep in mind our definition of a serious outbreak is a lot different than south of the border - we have had a total of 3 deaths so far in our province) must wear masks outdoors as well.  That outbreak and it’s source has been traced with all contacts which  is why the zones are in code orange and not lockdown. 😉 

 

I, for one listen to the scientists and I am glad our governments are, especially, our Premier.  I was never a fan of the man (I’m not of most politicians) but he has done a spectacular job on covid working with all parties in a non partisan way and listening to the scientists.

 

And we’ll wear our mask  😷 To try to keep our friends, neighbours and everyone in our community safe. 🙂