New health Protocols

[P&O SUE]

19 minutes ago, purplesea said:

Nearest place is still the main hospital.

That’s a shame, mind you my local hospital is not doing it yet. We live in a really built up area and our hospital covers a huge area so it always struggles at this time of year anyway. It’s nearly full now but then it normally is...

[AndyMichelle]

4 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

That’s a shame, mind you my local hospital is not doing it yet. We live in a really built up area and our hospital covers a huge area so it always struggles at this time of year anyway. It’s nearly full now but then it normally is...

Michelle volunteers for a Cancer support helpline and she just mentioned that there are so many people being squeezed in Nationwide for biopsies, scans, results etc after hardly any movement since March, she feels that the hospitals are preparing for another huge surge in Covid related cases. 

Unfortunately and Unusually, some terminal cases are being told there is nothing they can do for them, no offer of treatments that might extend their life a bit and not much in the way of palliative care... 

Covid is affecting so many people in different ways, so sad... 

Andy 

 

[P&O SUE]

2 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Michelle volunteers for a Cancer support helpline and she just mentioned that there are so many people being squeezed in Nationwide for biopsies, scans, results etc after hardly any movement since March, she feels that the hospitals are preparing for another huge surge in Covid related cases. 

Unfortunately and Unusually, some terminal cases are being told there is nothing they can do for them, no offer of treatments that might extend their life a bit and not much in the way of palliative care... 

Covid is affecting so many people in different ways, so sad... 

Andy 

 

Definitely, so awful for so many. Michelle is doing a good thing volunteering for such a good cause.

[SarahHben]

22 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

That’s a shame, mind you my local hospital is not doing it yet. We live in a really built up area and our hospital covers a huge area so it always struggles at this time of year anyway. It’s nearly full now but then it normally is...

Kent Online reported yesterday that Medway hospital has started giving the vaccine now, so hopefully your parents wont have to wait too long.

[Son of Anarchy]

3 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Michelle volunteers for a Cancer support helpline and she just mentioned that there are so many people being squeezed in Nationwide for biopsies, scans, results etc after hardly any movement since March, she feels that the hospitals are preparing for another huge surge in Covid related cases. 

Unfortunately and Unusually, some terminal cases are being told there is nothing they can do for them, no offer of treatments that might extend their life a bit and not much in the way of palliative care... 

Covid is affecting so many people in different ways, so sad... 

Andy 

 

In our area the local hospital is sending people over to nearby private places for things like MRI and gastroscopy.  One of our friends went to a private hospital for cataract surgery, but as an NHS patient.

 

Its so sad to hear that some terminally people are being told that there is nothing that can be done to extend the time they have left.  I'm astounded by what you've said about palliative care.  I'm not shooting the messenger, it's just awful for not only the person who is ill, but for their family to know and see that even palliative care is reduced.  Very sad times indeed.

[AndyMichelle]

Just now, Son of Anarchy said:

In our area the local hospital is sending people over to nearby private places for things like MRI and gastroscopy.  One of our friends went to a private hospital for cataract surgery, but as an NHS patient.

 

Its so sad to hear that some terminally people are being told that there is nothing that can be done to extend the time they have left.  I'm astounded by what you've said about palliative care.  I'm not shooting the messenger, it's just awful for not only the person who is ill, but for their family to know and see that even palliative care is reduced.  Very sad times indeed.

It is heartbreaking. 

Michelle has been heavily involved with this charity since she was diagnosed 6 years ago and said until now, she had never heard of such things, but now it is daily from various parts of the country. 

Lets just hope they are preparing them for the worst, but will still be able to support those who need it the most. 

Andy 

[P&O SUE]

40 minutes ago, SarahHben said:

Kent Online reported yesterday that Medway hospital has started giving the vaccine now, so hopefully your parents wont have to wait too long.

That’s good to know. My son and his fiancée live quite close to the football ground and they were ‘invited’ to a testing there. Both had negative results. No symptoms and both 30!

[Dermotsgirl]

My friend works for a GP group in Medway, and they are hoping to start vaccinations in January.

 

She says it’s going to be a massive logistical and staffing challenge 

[SarahHben]

49 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

That’s good to know. My son and his fiancée live quite close to the football ground and they were ‘invited’ to a testing there. Both had negative results. No symptoms and both 30!

I'm glad they tested negative. Maybe they are inviting people in the town centres for the non-symptomatic tests? The only people I know that have been invited are school staff and students. I wish they would open it up for workers who cant work from home. In retail if a shop assistant tests positive their co-workers keep working, no tests or isolation for the co-workers unless they've had very close contact.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, AndyMichelle said:

Michelle volunteers for a Cancer support helpline and she just mentioned that there are so many people being squeezed in Nationwide for biopsies, scans, results etc after hardly any movement since March, she feels that the hospitals are preparing for another huge surge in Covid related cases. 

Unfortunately and Unusually, some terminal cases are being told there is nothing they can do for them, no offer of treatments that might extend their life a bit and not much in the way of palliative care... 

Covid is affecting so many people in different ways, so sad... 

Andy 

 

Absolutely tragic, but sadly one of the inevitable consequences of the decision to virtually shut down the NHS for almost anything other than Covid - a decision which, in the long term, is going to cost more lives than the virus itself. Professor Karol Sikora, one of the worlds leading cancer experts, warned about this from the start, given that the primary factor in  determining whether or not you will survive cancer is early diagnosis. Very early on in the pandemic I heard that people reporting with cancer, stroke or heart symptoms were down by two thirds compared to normal and yet there was no way that incidents of this nature had fallen, so the two thirds who didn’t report could now be walking time bombs. I realise that this may be an unpopular view, but I can’t help but feel that the pedestal that the nation placed the NHS on, whilst undoubtedly morale boosting for the great staff who work for them, did nothing to help challenge this approach and I fear that history will judge us poorly. 
 

 

[tring]

Vaccinations started in GP hubs (covering quite a lot of practices) in our area on Monday/Tuesday, which was as soon as vaccine was received by them.  Saw a news report from midweek saying that one venue had done 600 out of their 975 allocation within the first two days and were due to be finished by Thursday.  Hospital administration ongoing.  Perhaps the places that have not started have not received the vaccine yet.  I do not know if that is the case, though did see one area that had delayed delivery because they did not have the -70 freezers at that stage.  I would certainly hope none are just sitting on vaccine and not being bothered to administer it and would be very annoyed if it was the case.

 

I do not see any problems with delivery, but receipt of vaccine could be a problem and is what has been said all along.  Bit of a mess that that the Phizer vaccine and even early supply of The Astro Zeneca, if licensed will have to be transported from the continent, so have to see how that goes.  It was always said they would need more vaccines as time went on and yes, we need to see how that goes, but I certainly do not see even this government not getting on with vaccination once the supply has been obtained given the effect on the economy as well as health.  Our local rag reported there are sports venues and conference centres arranged for vaccinations once the supply is available and administration progresses and, as mentioned previously on these boards, adverts have been placed for necessary staff, so that is likely well in hand now.  

[terrierjohn]

10 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Absolutely tragic, but sadly one of the inevitable consequences of the decision to virtually shut down the NHS for almost anything other than Covid - a decision which, in the long term, is going to cost more lives than the virus itself. Professor Karol Sikora, one of the worlds leading cancer experts, warned about this from the start, given that the primary factor in  determining whether or not you will survive cancer is early diagnosis. Very early on in the pandemic I heard that people reporting with cancer, stroke or heart symptoms were down by two thirds compared to normal and yet there was no way that incidents of this nature had fallen, so the two thirds who didn’t report could now be walking time bombs. I realise that this may be an unpopular view, but I can’t help but feel that the pedestal that the nation placed the NHS on, whilst undoubtedly morale boosting for the great staff who work for them, did nothing to help challenge this approach and I fear that history will judge us poorly. 
 

 

It has undoubtedly resulted in many people having delayed diagnoses which will lead to more deaths in the future.

However I am not certain how we could have ensured the initial wave did not swamp the NHS without employing these tactics.  Hindsight might indicate we could have maintained some additional non covid capacity, but at the time the predictions of the NHS being overwhelmed were far too strong for any govt to ignore.

[wowzz]

18 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Absolutely tragic, but sadly one of the inevitable consequences of the decision to virtually shut down the NHS for almost anything other than Covid - a decision which, in the long term, is going to cost more lives than the virus itself. Professor Karol Sikora, one of the worlds leading cancer experts, warned about this from the start, given that the primary factor in  determining whether or not you will survive cancer is early diagnosis. Very early on in the pandemic I heard that people reporting with cancer, stroke or heart symptoms were down by two thirds compared to normal and yet there was no way that incidents of this nature had fallen, so the two thirds who didn’t report could now be walking time bombs. I realise that this may be an unpopular view, but I can’t help but feel that the pedestal that the nation placed the NHS on, whilst undoubtedly morale boosting for the great staff who work for them, did nothing to help challenge this approach and I fear that history will judge us poorly. 
 

 

Totally agree with you. "Protect the NHS" is one if the most disingenuous slogans of all time.

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, tring said:

Vaccinations started in GP hubs (covering quite a lot of practices) in our area on Monday/Tuesday, which was as soon as vaccine was received by them.  Saw a news report from midweek saying that one venue had done 600 out of their 975 allocation within the first two days and were due to be finished by Thursday.  Hospital administration ongoing.  Perhaps the places that have not started have not received the vaccine yet.  I do not know if that is the case, though did see one area that had delayed delivery because they did not have the -70 freezers at that stage.  I would certainly hope none are just sitting on vaccine and not being bothered to administer it and would be very annoyed if it was the case.

 

I do not see any problems with delivery, but receipt of vaccine could be a problem and is what has been said all along.  Bit of a mess that that the Phizer vaccine and even early supply of The Astro Zeneca, if licensed will have to be transported from the continent, so have to see how that goes.  It was always said they would need more vaccines as time went on and yes, we need to see how that goes, but I certainly do not see even this government not getting on with vaccination once the supply has been obtained given the effect on the economy as well as health.  Our local rag reported there are sports venues and conference centres arranged for vaccinations once the supply is available and administration progresses and, as mentioned previously on these boards, adverts have been placed for necessary staff, so that is likely well in hand now.  

Jeremy Hunt is saying that the Pfizer vaccine will run out by mid January, with further supplies not due until March. So given that two doses are required,  it would seem that no more injections can be given after Christmas,  as otherwise there will be insufficient supplies for the all important  second vaccination.

[tring]

19 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Absolutely tragic, but sadly one of the inevitable consequences of the decision to virtually shut down the NHS for almost anything other than Covid - a decision which, in the long term, is going to cost more lives than the virus itself. Professor Karol Sikora, one of the worlds leading cancer experts, warned about this from the start, given that the primary factor in  determining whether or not you will survive cancer is early diagnosis. Very early on in the pandemic I heard that people reporting with cancer, stroke or heart symptoms were down by two thirds compared to normal and yet there was no way that incidents of this nature had fallen, so the two thirds who didn’t report could now be walking time bombs. I realise that this may be an unpopular view, but I can’t help but feel that the pedestal that the nation placed the NHS on, whilst undoubtedly morale boosting for the great staff who work for them, did nothing to help challenge this approach and I fear that history will judge us poorly. 
 

 

 

This to me is the real tragedy of the pandemic for all treatments, not just cancer as later treatment/investigation means any condition can have knock on effects.  I do not see that there has been a specific decision to shut down treatments though, but that it has become inevitable because the virus spread has not been dealt with.  Earlier intervention with restrictions/lockdowns would have meant a whole lot less disruption all together in the long term and has happened in some parts of the world.  The areas left in the lower tiers previously had lower numbers at that stage, but they were going up, so it was silly to just let it carry on with 6 people from different households being allowed to share a restaurant table, even in October in many parts of the country, to say nothing of the fiasco that is to be called Christmas this year.  The other religious groups all suffered lockdowns for their religious festivals, so why the need for this now!

 

Regards the mass testing, yes it must have made a difference in Liverpool and the region, but before it was even started, the numbers were going down in response to the tier three restrictions and the fact the virus was being controlled in student societies as well, which are what had brought numbers up in the city in the autumn, when students came into the city from elsewhere, having had a nice sociable August.  Parts of the area, including us had way lower numbers to begin with, yet have been in the same tier, so we now have one of the lowest rates in the country, not that it is easy for the hospitals even so.

[Selbourne]

9 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

It has undoubtedly resulted in many people having delayed diagnoses which will lead to more deaths in the future.

However I am not certain how we could have ensured the initial wave did not swamp the NHS without employing these tactics.  Hindsight might indicate we could have maintained some additional non covid capacity, but at the time the predictions of the NHS being overwhelmed were far too strong for any govt to ignore.

And all of that is of course what we were told to justify it John, but it never sat comfortably with me knowing how specialist most people who work in the NHS are. Even at peak, only a relatively small proportion of any hospitals staff were assigned to Covid patients. There is obviously a degree of interchangeability with junior staff, such as nurses, but much less so when you get to specialist and consultants etc. I am just one example of a person who is on a waiting list (with no apparent end) to see a consultant about something that I am pain with every day and, without going into my personal health conditions, I can say with some confidence that the consultant that I need to see will not be dealing with Covid as the specialism is entirely different. 

[yorkshirephil]

12 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Jeremy Hunt is saying that the Pfizer vaccine will run out by mid January, with further supplies not due until March. So given that two doses are required,  it would seem that no more injections can be given after Christmas,  as otherwise there will be insufficient supplies for the all important  second vaccination.

It looks like the Astra vaccine may be approved 28/29th Dec. Hopefully then mass vaccination can start. The sooner that starts the sooner we will have an inkling of how effective it is. Keeping fingers crossed.

[tring]

28 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

And all of that is of course what we were told to justify it John, but it never sat comfortably with me knowing how specialist most people who work in the NHS are. Even at peak, only a relatively small proportion of any hospitals staff were assigned to Covid patients. There is obviously a degree of interchangeability with junior staff, such as nurses, but much less so when you get to specialist and consultants etc. I am just one example of a person who is on a waiting list (with no apparent end) to see a consultant about something that I am pain with every day and, without going into my personal health conditions, I can say with some confidence that the consultant that I need to see will not be dealing with Covid as the specialism is entirely different. 

 

You are right about the senior staff being the shortage, but need to remember that it is not the Consultants who are supervising the work on the ground day to day.  I know someone who is a senior nurse (ward sister level as we would have known it) and she is totally wrecked.  Yes it is easy to an extent to transfer lower level staff across as well as train up/bring in other types of staff, but the trained senior nurses are the ones in charge 24/7, whilst consultants will swan infrom time to time.  Bringing senior nursing and even consultants from other specialisms is feasible as they all have the basic medical training and I understood some extra training of all staff was being done in the spring, but there still have to be enough of them and apparently having staff off ill has had a major impact, especially in the early stages.  Having hospital staff vaccinated will be a great help.

 

I have also had hospital investigations/appointments this year, but took myself off to the local private hospital, which has not meant any hiccups to date.  For us the cost is no more than we would have paid on holidays over a year, hence no problem and we would happily raid savings as well if needed, but sadly that is not possible for all.  I feel we have become a two class society in health as well as education of course, since some children have been much more affected than others.

Edited December 19, 2020 by tring

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Jeremy Hunt is saying that the Pfizer vaccine will run out by mid January, with further supplies not due until March. So given that two doses are required,  it would seem that no more injections can be given after Christmas,  as otherwise there will be insufficient supplies for the all important  second vaccination.

Pfizer seem to disagree with Jeremy Hunt, sayings deliveries will continue in New Year through to March. 

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

You are right about the senior staff being the shortage, but need to remember that it is not the Consultants who are supervising the work on the ground day to day.  I know someone who is a senior nurse (ward sister level as we would have known it) and she is totally wrecked.  Yes it is easy to an extent to transfer lower level staff across as well as train up/bring in other types of staff, but the trained senior nurses are the ones in charge 24/7, whilst consultants will swan infrom time to time.  Bringing senior nursing and even consultants from other specialisms is feasible as they all have the basic medical training and I understood some extra training of all staff was being done in the spring, but there still have to be enough of them and apparently having staff off ill has had a major impact, especially in the early stages.  Having hospital staff vaccinated will be a great help.

 

I have also had hospital investigations/appointments this year, but took myself off to the local private hospital, which has not meant any hiccups to date.  For us the cost is no more than we would have paid on holidays over a year, hence no problem and we would happily raid savings as well if needed, but sadly that is not possible for all.  I feel we have become a two class society in health as well as education of course, since some children have been much more affected than others.

I did qualify my comments by excluding nurses (and that includes nursing managers) but I am waiting to see a consultant, not a senior nurse. I know a number of registrars, consultants and above and none of them have been working in Covid wards, as their specialisms are so far removed from what is required. I also know a chest surgeon / respiratory consultant and he has been flat out, like your nursing friend. In theory, to people like us, it seems reasonable that as they have a good medical knowledge consultants should be able to switch disciplines, but the reality is somewhat different for all sorts of reasons.

[Snow Hill]

My mother in law’s friend who is 89 got a phone call from her GP yesterday evening she is having her 1st jab on Monday. My in-laws will probably get a call early next week based on that as same GP, one 89 the other 87. They live in North Warwickshire which is currently Tier 3

[tring]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I did qualify my comments by excluding nurses (and that includes nursing managers) but I am waiting to see a consultant, not a senior nurse. I know a number of registrars, consultants and above and none of them have been working in Covid wards, as their specialisms are so far removed from what is required. I also know a chest surgeon / respiratory consultant and he has been flat out, like your nursing friend. In theory, to people like us, it seems reasonable that as they have a good medical knowledge consultants should be able to switch disciplines, but the reality is somewhat different for all sorts of reasons.

 

I have four Drs of various specialisms and seniority as fairly close relatives.  I have also worked in hospitals, as a nurse in my younger years and some years as a research assistant for a consultant later on in life. This tells me that hospital staff as a whole work hard and are very conscientious no matter what level they work at, even ancillary staff.

 

I have no detailed knowledge of what has happened in all hospitals over this year and do not pretend to do so, but I have not got the impression that any staff have stuck so closely to their previous roles that they have not helped with the COVID effort in some way.  As I understood, that appears to be working at a lower level than normally in some cases in other specialty areas of (with some extra training), but none the less doing their bit.  Others have been left with less staff, so have adjusted appropriately in their own area and that includes consultants seeing NHS patients in private hospitals as well as their private patients.

 

I hope you manage to get treatment for your condition in the near future and that you go forward in much better health.  I meant no disrespect as I have always found your posts very logical, well reasoned and helpful.

Edited December 19, 2020 by tring

[AndyMichelle]

3 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I know a number of registrars, consultants and above and none of them have been working in Covid wards, as their specialisms are so far removed from what is required.

Only speaking from our experience, but Michelle's senior consultant was working on a covid ward early in the first lockdown. 

Andy 

[terrierjohn]

13 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Only speaking from our experience, but Michelle's senior consultant was working on a covid ward early in the first lockdown. 

Andy 

That's the impression I have had from the many programmes that followed this pandemic through lots of hospitals, many senior doctors undertaking junior roles in covid wards.

[davecttr]

I checked online and although several GP practices in my area (Medway) have now started vaccinating, mine with 11 doctors, has not yet done so. No problem for me as I predict my turn will be March