Air Conditioning On Ships Re Covid

[janny444]

Hi....once cruising restarts I know there will be restrictions in place but my main  concern is the air conditioning/ventilation throughout the ships...including cabins. Will they be 100% " Covid 19 proof " ?

Apologies if this question has been asked before and please bear in mind that I am not technically minded so I have no idea how " technical" things work

[indiana123]

Goodness, that is something I hadn't thought of.

 

Another non technical brain here too 😄

[terrierjohn]

If you read the P&O protocols it says that all their ships have had HEPA filters installed in their air con systems.

[yorkshirephil]

I have read several reports where air conditioning systems have been upgraded, not just on ships. Royal Caribbean had an interesting report where they actually explained what they had done rather than just saying they had upgraded which doesn't mean a lot. I am familiar with Aircon/HVAC systems from my time in the Pharma industry. Our HVAC was more to keep particulates out similar to those used in the microchip industry. However even the best systems are not 100% proven. The problem with covid is that the virus is so minute, HVAC systems are very expensive as filters to take out virus particles need to be ultra fine and have a good self cleaning or maintenance regime. Also if you do not recirculate the air you would have to heat it up in cold climate and cool it in warm, again expensive. So the system will not be 100% effective but every bit helps.

[yorkshirephil]

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If you read the P&O protocols it says that all their ships have had HEPA filters installed in their air con systems.

Do they state what HEPA filters they have installed? We used ultra fine HEPA's in our HVAC systems but they were not effective against something as small as a virus, they were mainly to remove fine particulates and bacteria.

[janny444]

13 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

I have read several reports where air conditioning systems have been upgraded, not just on ships. Royal Caribbean had an interesting report where they actually explained what they had done rather than just saying they had upgraded which doesn't mean a lot. I am familiar with Aircon/HVAC systems from my time in the Pharma industry. Our HVAC was more to keep particulates out similar to those used in the microchip industry. However even the best systems are not 100% proven. The problem with covid is that the virus is so minute, HVAC systems are very expensive as filters to take out virus particles need to be ultra fine and have a good self cleaning or maintenance regime. Also if you do not recirculate the air you would have to heat it up in cold climate and cool it in warm, again expensive. So the system will not be 100% effective but every bit helps.

Many thanks for your informative answer....much more helpful than P&O's protocol statement saying that HEPA filters are installed which doesn't mean anything to me in regard to Covid 10....as I said I am not technically minded

[Scriv]

A very good friend who was a ship's engineer and still 'in the know' has said that P&O had worked on and fully upgraded their air conditioning systems whilst the ships have been out of action. Good to know.

[terrierjohn]

10 minutes ago, janny444 said:

Many thanks for your informative answer....much more helpful than P&O's protocol statement saying that HEPA filters are installed which doesn't mean anything to me in regard to Covid 10....as I said I am not technically minded

If you google Do Hepa filters prevent Covid19, you will get lots of answers, and although there is no total guarantee the consensus is that they most certainly will provide the most effective barrier possible, probably far better than even the best face masks.

[tring]

I am wondering if the removal of all particulates is actually an advantage as we are not thinking about contamination of a manufacturing process. As I understand it, whilst one virion or even bacteria could theoretically cause an infection, the normal requirement, is that the numbers do not go above a certain level that means the body's normal first stage defence's cannot cope.  I do not have specific knowledge on that, just something I had understood in the past from I am not sure where.

 

One thing that has been bothering me is the humidity levels of the new A/C systems.  I am asthmatic and can be badly affected by a dry atmosphere, P&O ships being particularly problemtic for me.  As COVID particles are reputed to be affected by desication I am thinking humidity levels may be even lower than they have been in the past. We have booked a balcony cabin, but understand the doors should not be left open. May have to sleep on the balcony......

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by tring

[Eddie99]

Get the smallest humidifier you can find.  (Not dehumidifier - but you knew that).  Makes the cabin so much more comfortable.  Just run it at night - the reservoir should last through.

Less technical is to leave a damp towel/facecloth eg hanging over the back of the chair

Or do both

[wowzz]

As has been said, the filters will dramatically reduce the viral load overall. 

However, you still need to practice social distancing.

[SargassoPirate]

Best thing to do is to get the vaccine before you even think about getting on a ship or airplane.  Then you can travel worry free and let the anti-vaxers to all of the worrying.

 

I don't travel anywhere internationally without taking all of the recommended vaccinations for that country or region and I see travel with Covid no differently.

 

 

[yorkshirephil]

26 minutes ago, tring said:

I am wondering if the removal of all particulates is actually an advantage as we are not thinking about contamination of a manufacturing process. As I understand it, whilst one virion or even bacteria could theoretically cause an infection, the normal requirement, is that the numbers do not go above a certain level that means the body's normal first stage defence's cannot cope.  I do not have specific knowledge on that, just something I had understood in the past from I am not sure where.

 

One thing that has been bothering me is the humidity levels of the new A/C systems.  I am asthmatic and can be badly affected by a dry atmosphere, P&O ships being particularly problemtic for me.  As COVID particles are reputed to be affected by desication I am thinking humidity levels may be even lower than they have been in the past. We have booked a balcony cabin, but understand the doors should not be left open. May have to sleep on the balcony......

 

 

The removal of particulates probably makes little difference, other than blocking the pores of the filters causing them to become less efficient. The viral dose will typically determine how ill you are, one viron can infect but will put less stress on your immune system as it will only infect one cell initially. It is reported that the reason some young healthy doctors and nurses with no underlying health issues were dying during the first wave of covid was that they were getting massive viral doses due to dealing with lots of covid cases, mainly because of lack of good PPE, the . The second wave does not seem to be having that same effect now that PPE is available and we have a better understanding of the virus.

I also have issues with aircon as I am Asthmatic, not badly but need inhalers. I usually put a wet facecloth over a bowl of water on the bedside cabinet. We spend very little time in our cabin so am not affected too badly.

[tring]

1 hour ago, Eddie99 said:

Get the smallest humidifier you can find.  (Not dehumidifier - but you knew that).  Makes the cabin so much more comfortable.  Just run it at night - the reservoir should last through.

Less technical is to leave a damp towel/facecloth eg hanging over the back of the chair

Or do both

 

Thanks, though we did buy a humidifier before going on Arcadia a year or so ago, but found it did not make a noticeable difference, so stopped using it.  The air was not as bad (dry) as we have come across in the past.  It is just a small one which attaches to a water bottle which is used as a reservoir.  It is something we saw suggested on a CC thread, almost certainly somewhere in the P&O section as I have not had problems on other ships.  We spend little time in the cabin, but overnight is the problem - I tend to go walkabout at least once in the night and spend some time in an outside area, but does disturb my sleep. 

[Officeboy]

On 12/18/2020 at 11:01 AM, terrierjohn said:

If you read the P&O protocols it says that all their ships have had HEPA filters installed in their air con systems.

The one upgrade to the air con that works is UV In air conditioning systems, UV light destroys harmful microorganisms, including Mold, mildew, fungi, bacteria, and viruses like SARS-CoV-19. You can incorporate these lights into your home air conditioning system. UV lights are typically installed near your primary AC coil or in your ductwork. Microorganisms that pass within the UV bulb’s line of sight will be destroyed.

[yorkshirephil]

29 minutes ago, Officeboy said:

The one upgrade to the air con that works is UV In air conditioning systems, UV light destroys harmful microorganisms, including Mold, mildew, fungi, bacteria, and viruses like SARS-CoV-19. You can incorporate these lights into your home air conditioning system. UV lights are typically installed near your primary AC coil or in your ductwork. Microorganisms that pass within the UV bulb’s line of sight will be destroyed.

There is a lot of ongoing studies regarding UV disinfecting. UVA and UVB have been used for decades in various industries. UVC is now the new technology which is naturally filtered out by our ozone layer and is more dangerous to humans. Albeit not everybody is in agreement (as if they ever will be?) One of the current issues with UVC is that it has higher energy and a shorter wavelength than UVA or UVB. There is not a lot of evidence on a large enough scale that is in the public domain to determine how effective it will be against covid, one of the issues is that  different wavelengths are required to kill different viruses and/or bacteria etc. The upside is that anything that has a detrimental effect on covid will likely get the resource to investigate its effect. If a reasonably priced system can be developed and installed it could provide the cruise industry with another defence against the dreaded Norovirus once we get covid vanquished.

[molecrochip]

A lot of work and research has gone into pushing forward the development of cruise ship filtration systems in the past 12 months.

 

Back in early lockdown cruise lines upgraded filters and switched to 100% fresh air when it looked like a short pause.

 

Since then the market leading suppliers of these systems have developed improved systems which the companies are spending considerable sums installing.

[tring]

12 hours ago, molecrochip said:

A lot of work and research has gone into pushing forward the development of cruise ship filtration systems in the past 12 months.

 

Back in early lockdown cruise lines upgraded filters and switched to 100% fresh air when it looked like a short pause.

 

Since then the market leading suppliers of these systems have developed improved systems which the companies are spending considerable sums installing.

 

Do you know if it will mean extremely low humidity levels on the ships?  Also do you know in what way the new systems are improved? 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by tring