NCL Counters CDC new phase with it's own plan. Really bold move.

[Navis]

38 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

What I also note on NCL's "Ready. Set. Break Free." page is they are pushing July cruises as follows"

• 7-Day Eastern Caribbean, Norwegian Gem
• 7-Day Greek Isles, Norwegian Jade (and other ships)
• 7-Day Western Caribbean, Norwegian Joy

All of which could easily be staged out of foreign ports if the CDC balks or opposes NCL's plans.  Indeed, Greece is on record publicly welcoming cruises this summer and NCL already has ports negotiated in the Mediterranean.  What's to stop NCL from working to secure fall-back ports in Bermuda, the Bahamas or Mexico (Joy or Gem) and thumb their nose at the CDC if they stonewall.  Thankfully, my next booked cruise is September in the Greek Isles.  I'm feeling pretty bold on that one now in the wake of FDR's letter.

 

Just noted NCL's update today on suspended sailings that "Norwegian Joy, Norwegian Jade and Norwegian Gem now boast new homeports in Greece and the Caribbean for three new and exciting itineraries sailing in July. Book them now!"  Awesome!

This is good news for a slow restart and was actually something I just got in my inbox for another cruise line announcing the sale of Greek Island cruises next week. 
 

I think this also is evidence of the big game of chicken we’ve been in since the vaccines came out ... who is going to be the one to require them? At first I think the cruise lines were hoping the CDC would mandate it and take the heat off the cruise lines for the mandate. When the CDC said they were not getting involved it then became well, who will make the decision? I think what we are starting to see is this will likely to be an itinerary by itinerary decision between the cruise lines and the destination ports.  
 

Read carefully about those Greek Island cruises and you’ll see that Greece is requiring all passengers be vaccinated in order to be granted entry. There is, however, a limited exception for people who recovered from COVID within 90 days of arrival (I know people on here have been asking about that). Those cruise rules appear to mimic the requirements for entry into the country in general (which makes sense). 
 

I suspect there will be many ports that will accept negative tests as enough for entry, but I imagine keeping track of all this and what ports require what just seems like a nightmare and on a 7 day cruise one would assume the highest bar will be applied.  This doesn’t even address the administrative nightmare of differing countries requiring different “as of” tests (just look a t the difference today between traveling to Aruba vs Barbados).

 

I guess this is all just a long winded way of saying ... I don’t see this being a one size fits all approach and we should expect to see different requirements for different itineraries. 
 

 

[hallux]

2 hours ago, giustot said:

The state of Florida. The governor has signed an executive order forbidding the state from issuing vaccine passports and  prohibiting businesses from requiring proof of vaccinations. He says he doesn’t want to create a second class of citizens who are not vaccinated. 

And the ability of the state to enforce that on the cruise lines has been heavily discussed in either this or other threads.  That includes input from someone in the maritime industry.

[JohnIreland]

CDC Says Cruises Possible by Mid-Summer

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-06/carnival-threatens-to-move-ships-abroad-amid-cdc-obstacles

[Sand and Seas]

31 minutes ago, JohnIreland said:

CDC Says Cruises Possible by Mid-Summer

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-06/carnival-threatens-to-move-ships-abroad-amid-cdc-obstacles

Thanks for posting this!

 

It's been a very interesting couple of days with the major cruise-lines showing they are ready to move on with cruises originating outside of USA.   

Edited April 6, 2021 by Sand and Seas

[bratts2go]

DeSantis' vaccine passport ban confounds cruise lines' reopening plans

DeSantis Vaccine passport ban could delay cruise industry reopening (palmbeachpost.com)

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, JohnIreland said:

CDC Says Cruises Possible by Mid-Summer

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-06/carnival-threatens-to-move-ships-abroad-amid-cdc-obstacles

 

30 minutes ago, Sand and Seas said:

Thanks for posting this!

 

It's been a very interesting couple of days with the major cruise-lines showing they are ready to move on with cruises originating outside of USA.   

Read the CDC's statement carefully. They are simply restating that cruising can restart when the cruise lines follow the requirements of the CSO:

"CDC is committed to working with the cruise industry and seaport partners to resume cruising following the phased approach outlined in the conditional sailing order,”

 

CDC has not said anything new or changed any requirements.

[Sand and Seas]

2 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

Read the CDC's statement carefully. They are simply restating that cruising can restart when the cruise lines follow the requirements of the CSO:

"CDC is committed to working with the cruise industry and seaport partners to resume cruising following the phased approach outlined in the conditional sailing order,”

 

CDC has not said anything new or changed any requirements.

It is the '....could resume by mid-summer with restrictions' from the news report that gives me hope. 

 

 Plus, now "CDC is committed to working with the cruise industry".  

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, Sand and Seas said:

It is the '....could resume by mid-summer with restrictions' from the news report that gives me hope. 

 

 Plus, now "CDC is committed to working with the cruise industry".  

It's always been "could resume by (some date) with restrictions". That's been true from Day One of the CSO...which was issued over 5 months ago.

What else would you expect them to say? Has the CDC ever said it's not committed to working with the industry? Their statement is meaningless fluff.

[Sand and Seas]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

It's always been "could resume by (some date) with restrictions". That's been true from Day One of the CSO...which was issued over 5 months ago.

What else would you expect them to say? Has the CDC ever said it's not committed to working with the industry? Their statement is meaningless fluff.

Sorry, I'm not trying to disagree with anyone or get political.  

 

I am just trying to look for some positive changes and I felt like these stories give us some hope.  It's been a long year of staying home.   My second shot is coming up soon and I hope to get back to cruising again.

[All-ready2cruise]

@Sand and Seas Very happy that you'll be getting your booster shot soon. Good luck getting back to cruising. 

[giustot]

10 hours ago, Navis said:

Are you admitted to the bar of any State or Commonwealth? If not, you might want to leave the legal commentary to those of us that have taken and passed a Bar Exam and are admitted to practice in one or more state/commonwealth and/or Federal jurisdictions. This is quite off the mark and is likely to lead to a lot of unnecessary confusion.

 

 

 

Sorry to have offended you. But what did I say that was untrue? The only actual comment I made was that I support proof of vaccinations. My point was that while some feel cruise lines sailing out of the US will certainly be allowed to require vaccinations, and a state order in Florida certainly would not apply to the cruise lines, those assumptions are not necessarily true.

 

The New York Times published a story today about the ethical and legal issues surrounding "vaccine passports." No one yet knows how this is going to play out.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/vaccine-passports-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Navis]

7 hours ago, giustot said:

Sorry to have offended you. But what did I say that was untrue? The only actual comment I made was that I support proof of vaccinations. My point was that while some feel cruise lines sailing out of the US will certainly be allowed to require vaccinations, and a state order in Florida certainly would not apply to the cruise lines, those assumptions are not necessarily true.

 

The New York Times published a story today about the ethical and legal issues surrounding "vaccine passports." No one yet knows how this is going to play out.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/vaccine-passports-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

 

No offense taken. All I was pointing out was that you mplied that somehow the personal views of a sitting Governor of Florida on who may be a protected class is relevant to anything ... they are not. He doesn’t even get to interpret his own state constitution let alone the US Constitution.

 

You do not understand the legal implications of your statements. Were, somehow, non vaccinated people deemed a protected class (and, let’s be clear, there is a less than zero chance of that happening under this SCOUTS — if anything this Court is headed in the opposite direction with protected classes) then any court would be required to apply strict scrutiny to any law/regulation infringing on that group. Most laws fail under strict scrutiny because they must be narrowly tailored in furtherance of a compelling state interest. Rational basis would apply here and under that standard nearly all laws/reg have been upheld.

 

I just want to avoid unnecessary confusion for people on here, that’s all — not offended in the least. Unless FL is willing to use FL registered vessels, board only FL residents, and stay within FL waters then any law/regulation passed by the Federal government will trump anything FL tries under the Supremacy Clause. This is before even considering the implication of maritime law (which I know nothing about).

 

As I and many others have said a few times, at the end of the day, the US is not going to have sole control here and the focus of what FL and/or the CDC determines is too narrow. Once a port country determines for itself that it is going to require all cruise passengers to be vaccinated (like Greece and Croatia already have) that’s it ... end of discussion. I just don’t see how this becomes anything but a itinerary by itinerary issue and cruises will require all passengers to meet the highest bar for each itinerary.

 

I just want try to keep the focus of the positive and known facts right now ... cruising is going to resume and that’s a great thing!

[DCGuy64]

8 hours ago, giustot said:

Sorry to have offended you. But what did I say that was untrue? The only actual comment I made was that I support proof of vaccinations. My point was that while some feel cruise lines sailing out of the US will certainly be allowed to require vaccinations, and a state order in Florida certainly would not apply to the cruise lines, those assumptions are not necessarily true.

 

The New York Times published a story today about the ethical and legal issues surrounding "vaccine passports." No one yet knows how this is going to play out.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/vaccine-passports-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

 

That's exactly right. For all of those saying vaccinations will be "required," I need only remind them that cruising is a worldwide industry, and the idea of creating 2nd class citizens who aren't vaccinated is a very hotly debated topic in Europe right now. For one thing, it goes to the very heart of freedom of movement, so to the extent that tourism includes people moving about from one country to another, there is the very real possibility that EU regulators will forbid any private company from requiring vaccinations in order to travel. People talk over and over about the CDC and its jurisdiction in the USA. Well, other countries have their own governments with their own jurisdictions, so they absolutely can tell NCL, etc. that vaccination requirements violate their laws and are unenforceable. Personally, I have no trouble with vaccinations and have had my 1st shot already, and I support the cruise industry's cautious approach. But it doesn't mean it's a done deal; far from it.

[Navis]

S

18 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

That's exactly right. For all of those saying vaccinations will be "required," I need only remind them that cruising is a worldwide industry, and the idea of creating 2nd class citizens who aren't vaccinated is a very hotly debated topic in Europe right now. For one thing, it goes to the very heart of freedom of movement, so to the extent that tourism includes people moving about from one country to another, there is the very real possibility that EU regulators will forbid any private company from requiring vaccinations in order to travel. People talk over and over about the CDC and its jurisdiction in the USA. Well, other countries have their own governments with their own jurisdictions, so they absolutely can tell NCL, etc. that vaccination requirements violate their laws and are unenforceable. Personally, I have no trouble with vaccinations and have had my 1st shot already, and I support the cruise industry's cautious approach. But it doesn't mean it's a done deal; far from it.

i completely agree with you ... each country ... or Union (in the case of the EU) has the sovereign right to set their own standards for their citizens, but no country can subject the rest of the world to such standards. If a country were to prohibit vaccine passports and a cruise line wanted to offer a cruise with an itinerary that included a port that requires proof of vaccination the cruise line is between a rock and hard place.  An interesting scenario would be what could the cruise line do when the ship enters international waters? 

 

What might end up happening is the cruise lines reassign ships/ports or realign ships to offer itineraries that comply with all applicable laws — both embarkation/disembarkation ports and all visited ports.

 

I will add that this is exactly the case today. It is just that for most of us, we are exempted from vaccination requirements because we do not travel from/through countries with high incidence of certain disease so we never have to deal with it. Two years ago we were on a 14 day Asian/Middle East itinerary. When we submitted our travel details the cruise line reached out to me to let me know that because I would be arriving from a country with a high incidence of yellow fever (I was traveling for work in Brazil) I would need to submit proof of vaccination before I would be permitted to Board because even though the CDC only “recommends” yellow fever vaccination for US citizens, several countries on our itinerary actually required it. So, I had to get vaccinated and submit the vaccination card prior to boarding. My partner was traveling from the US and because the US is not a high risk country for yellow fever no vaccination was required.

 

I completely expect when this thing settles out and traveling resumes we will see COVID treated like polio or yellow fever .. passengers from or transiting though counties oh high COVID risk will be required to show proof of vaccination. 

 

 

 

[knitlady037]

22 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

I find this statement to be highly unlikely.  Vaccination sites administering the vaccine have to report all doses used to the federal government including any doses lost to waste or error. It's very tightly regulated and is not being given out on a "test basis". Along with the fact that most vaccination sites usually only carry 1 brand of the vaccines, and sometimes two but I've yet to hear of any vaccination site carrying all 3.  This would also have to be done under the supervision of an allergist or physician, not a pharmacy or mass vaccination site and to my knowledge they would not have access to all 3.

You can have your opinion, even if you do not know facts. When someone is HIGHLY allergic to vaccines they see an allergist regularly. I do not have to show you proof of her allergy or tell you how she received the tests. I never mentioned she got the scratch test in a pharmacy site or mass vaccination site. When you have a medical degree specializing in allergies, then you can make an informed comment on a subject. 

 

[2RottiesMom]

I have an 11 day cruise booked in Dec., 2021.....booked this in February after 3 different reschedules.  I totally disagree with the vaccine mandates as every one of these vaccines are all experimental.  I know that I will catch it for posting this but this is the reality.  There are far too many instances of horrific side effects and no idea of any future complications.  If a person feels the need to receive a vaccine, that is their business but the decision to keep those of us who practice social distancing and extremely clean hygiene practices alone with masks is completely unfair and it will impact the cruise line industry.  I have sailed on more than 30 cruises, ocean and European river, and I will be either booking with another line that doesn't discriminate or find alternate vacations.  I will give up our Garden Villa suites before I submit to being a guinea pig just to get on a cruise ship.

[farmersfight]

On 4/6/2021 at 2:34 PM, HuliHuli said:

Just noted NCL's update today on suspended sailings that "Norwegian Joy, Norwegian Jade and Norwegian Gem now boast new homeports in Greece and the Caribbean for three new and exciting itineraries sailing in July. Book them now!"  Awesome!

 

O.k., I did. Norwegian Gem, 7-day E. Caribbean out of La Romana, DR. Sep 12-19, 2021. I'm officially designating this as a CC Rat Pack cruise; even if it just myself, lol. I'll "pound" enough drinks on board to represent all CC Rat Packers! You with me??

[coffeebean]

On 4/5/2021 at 4:57 PM, asalligo said:

I think that is when the CDC caves. When they feel the public is really pushing for cruising to restart and they are worried they start to look like the bad guys to more than just cruise critic members. 

Those are my thoughts too. There is a fine line to walk when people will just defy what ever the CDC has to say regarding everything, not just the cruise industry. There is already push back from people regarding the CDC. I would only get worse if this stalemate continues with the cruise industry.

[coffeebean]

On 4/5/2021 at 6:19 PM, Laszlo said:

They tried that in Texas when the Governor cut back the mask rules. They found a lot of private companies didn't care. To get in the door they required people to wear mask

There never was a mask mandate in Florida but many businesses required masks, especially health care facilities and doctor's offices. NO ONE entered any health care facility or doctor's office without a mask. They strictly enforced their mandate and still do.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

O.k., I did. Norwegian Gem, 7-day E. Caribbean out of La Romana, DR. Sep 12-19, 2021. I'm officially designating this as a CC Rat Pack cruise; even if it just myself, lol. I'll "pound" enough drinks on board to represent all CC Rat Packers! You with me??

 

I'm genuinely happy to learn you will be cruising in 2021. I know you have been eager. Looking forward to your review. Let me know if you need any help with Jamaica pre/post cruise 🙂

[BermudaBound2014]

37 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Those are my thoughts too. There is a fine line to walk when people will just defy what ever the CDC has to say regarding everything, not just the cruise industry. There is already push back from people regarding the CDC. I would only get worse if this stalemate continues with the cruise industry.

 

Just curious, I realize none of us have a crystal ball, but do you think the 'stalemate' is going to change before the order expires November 1st? 

[iamaqt2]

11 hours ago, knitlady037 said:

You can have your opinion, even if you do not know facts. When someone is HIGHLY allergic to vaccines they see an allergist regularly. I do not have to show you proof of her allergy or tell you how she received the tests. I never mentioned she got the scratch test in a pharmacy site or mass vaccination site. When you have a medical degree specializing in allergies, then you can make an informed comment on a subject. 

 

Now I know 100% you just made that up.  The major concern about allergies to the vaccine was its components, not the vaccine itself.   I actually am informed, as I'm a pharmacy member involved in setting up the MIcrosoft campus vaccine site in Redmond, and my hospital pharmacy coordinating it.  
She may have been scratch tested with components that the vaccines are composed of, but she was not tested with the three actual vaccines.  

[farmersfight]

5 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I'm genuinely happy to learn you will be cruising in 2021. I know you have been eager. Looking forward to your review. Let me know if you need any help with Jamaica pre/post cruise 🙂

 

Thanks! I am sure this one will sail (no CDC involved). Actually, we will be embarking and disembarking the Norwegian Gem in La Romana, Dom Rep. I think you may be thinking of the Norwegian Joy which will be doing the W. Caribbean cruises out of Jamaica.

[coffeebean]

8 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Just curious, I realize none of us have a crystal ball, but do you think the 'stalemate' is going to change before the order expires November 1st? 

I wish I had a crystal ball but I don't. So......my answer is "who knows???"

[knitlady037]

10 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

Now I know 100% you just made that up.  The major concern about allergies to the vaccine was its components, not the vaccine itself.   I actually am informed, as I'm a pharmacy member involved in setting up the MIcrosoft campus vaccine site in Redmond, and my hospital pharmacy coordinating it.  
She may have been scratch tested with components that the vaccines are composed of, but she was not tested with the three actual vaccines.  

since you know EVERYTHING about the vaccines and allergies, maybe you just missed this info.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-begins-study-allergic-reactions-moderna-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccines