Is This THE Announcement?

[optimusprime82]

11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

In our life time, I think that is an excellent question.  

 

 

There cannot be a guarantee of no Covid just as there has not been of the Norovirus, etc.  I am willing to endure a "Brave New World" of cruising.  With reasonable and responsible requirements.  But, I am not willing to wear a mask; I don't wish to encounter crew or staff wearing a mask.  If that is part of the "Brave New World" of cruising, then, my cruising days are finished.  

 

 

 

I'm sorry but I think this is a super weird thought process to have. Why do you care if the crew are wearing a mask? Do you care if you see restaurant or bar staff wearing gloves too? You have a lot of control over how many guests and crew you encounter everyday. The crew doesn't have that option, many of them will interact with hundreds of guests a day and perhaps a mask will help them stay healthy from Covid or other airborne illnesses. 

 

3 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I totally agree that wearing a mask while on a cruise makes no sense...unless you have a medical condition...such as auto immune issues.  That is why we will probably see some people wearing masks...so be it.  The irony: I am susceptible to lung infections ever since I had a serious case of pneumonia 10 years ago.  This was the first year that I did not catch a cold and suffer the 5 months it takes to clear my lungs.  I believe the masks helped me in this respect...LOL.   

 

Pretty much this... I've flown several times since Covid began and haven't gotten a cold after flying for the first time years. Maybe it's masks, maybe it's better air filtering or improved cleaning between flights but I'm going to continue to wear a mask and sanitize my own seat on a plane from now on.   

 

1 hour ago, Beaver1975 said:

I am just curious as to how they are going to verify a passengers vaccination status? With that little card the give you when you get your vaccination?

 

This is all the CDC's last grasp of their control over things they should not be involved in.

 

Huh? CDC stands for Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Why wouldn't the CDC be involved in the cruise industry? If there's a disease that can spread to multiple ports of call, spread to a local population, and then spread to other ships that are going on to visit multiple ports themselves why wouldn't the CDC be involved in that? Controlling and preventing the spread of diseases is their job, not making vacation dreams come true.

 

I can understand a certain amount of frustration with the process or lack of clarity between the CDC and the cruise lines. Bureaucracy is almost always frustrating but without oversight from organizations like the CDC consumers would be at much higher risk. Who do you think performs the kitchen inspections on cruise ships? That's right, the CDC. If oversight is needed to make sure that raw chicken is being kept at the right temperature it's a pretty safe bet that the cruise industry needs guidance when preventing the spread of a deadly disease. 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

4 hours ago, dexddd said:

If Bahamas asking for visa, it is nothing more than a money grab.

I agree. Just got off the phone with MSC. If you are only going to there island and no other Bahamas island like Nassau or Grad Bahamas. You do NOT need the health Visa. That is certainly a plus.

[DCGuy64]

56 minutes ago, optimusprime82 said:

I can understand a certain amount of frustration with the process or lack of clarity between the CDC and the cruise lines.

That's a huge understatement. The proof of that is in the new guidance the CDC just issued. Many on Cruise Critic blamed the cruise lines for not "playing ball" with the CDC, but it was clear some of their recommendations were ridiculous, outdated and onerous. I hope you acknowledge that. Saying that the CDC is essentially only trying to protect public health is correct, but it does not mean anything they say is necessarily right or reasonable. They were basing much of their fear of virus outbreaks on events that took place a year ago and have now been refuted by the many outbreak-free sailings since spring of 2020. Ironically, while cruising was all but stopped last year, Covid-19 continued to spread, so it's not like cruising was to blame, but they were the only industry being stopped from resuming in the US. Now they've done away with the simulated sailings requirement, are allowing the lines to negotiate multiple port agreements instead of individual ones, and for cruise lines that OPT to do test sailings, they'll respond within 5 days instead of 60. It's clear some of the CDC's ("reasonable," according to some) regulations were absurd and unworkable. I think it's great that they sat down with industry officials and changed their stance. Long overdue, in my opinion.
 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

27 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

That's a huge understatement. The proof of that is in the new guidance the CDC just issued. Many on Cruise Critic blamed the cruise lines for not "playing ball" with the CDC, but it was clear some of their recommendations were ridiculous, outdated and onerous. I hope you acknowledge that. Saying that the CDC is essentially only trying to protect public health is correct, but it does not mean anything they say is necessarily right or reasonable. They were basing much of their fear of virus outbreaks on events that took place a year ago and have now been refuted by the many outbreak-free sailings since spring of 2020. Ironically, while cruising was all but stopped last year, Covid-19 continued to spread, so it's not like cruising was to blame, but they were the only industry being stopped from resuming in the US. Now they've done away with the simulated sailings requirement, are allowing the lines to negotiate multiple port agreements instead of individual ones, and for cruise lines that OPT to do test sailings, they'll respond within 5 days instead of 60. It's clear some of the CDC's ("reasonable," according to some) regulations were absurd and unworkable. I think it's great that they sat down with industry officials and changed their stance. Long overdue, in my opinion.
 

Most KNOW IT ALL scientists, the CDC the HWO do not know it all. Including me. Confused at the least. So many do this, not do this, changes back and forth over the last year can drive you up a wall. Schools, everyone together all day for 5 days. No out breaks. No covid19 vaccine requirements. Even the teachers are not forced to get the vaccine, personally I think they should be. My son's female companion has been a 2rd grade teacher for many years. She got the J&J before the blood clots came up. So far she is fine. The cruise ships are now a far safer place than most all schools. The air conditioning systems alone should be in all schools. Non recirculated air. Always fresh air from outside. It takes a major A/C unit to accomplish that. Try cooling 90 degree air down to 72 degrees fast. Super HEPA filters also. The finer the filter the stronger the blower must be. Constantly cleaning and disinfecting. Personally we would feel super safe on a cruise ship.

[optimusprime82]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

That's a huge understatement. The proof of that is in the new guidance the CDC just issued. Many on Cruise Critic blamed the cruise lines for not "playing ball" with the CDC, but it was clear some of their recommendations were ridiculous, outdated and onerous. I hope you acknowledge that. Saying that the CDC is essentially only trying to protect public health is correct, but it does not mean anything they say is necessarily right or reasonable. They were basing much of their fear of virus outbreaks on events that took place a year ago and have now been refuted by the many outbreak-free sailings since spring of 2020. Ironically, while cruising was all but stopped last year, Covid-19 continued to spread, so it's not like cruising was to blame, but they were the only industry being stopped from resuming in the US. Now they've done away with the simulated sailings requirement, are allowing the lines to negotiate multiple port agreements instead of individual ones, and for cruise lines that OPT to do test sailings, they'll respond within 5 days instead of 60. It's clear some of the CDC's ("reasonable," according to some) regulations were absurd and unworkable. I think it's great that they sat down with industry officials and changed their stance. Long overdue, in my opinion.
 

 

I think a lot of people are forgetting that Covid-19 isn't just a Salmonella outbreak, it was a new disease and the response to it was built from the ground up. I don't think anyone would dare say that it has been handled effectively from day 1, day 180, day 365 or day 486... it has been a work in progress the entire time. A year ago "leadership" in the United States was suggesting people inject bleach to kill Covid, six months ago we didn't have an approved vaccine, and three months ago we barely had anyone vaccinated. Getting the guidelines "right" and being "reasonable" are a moving target that I admit the CDC probably hasn't hit the bullseye on often enough. Ultimately they're still trying to protect people from a deadly disease that a lot of cruisers seem to think is a hoax despite the headstones to the contrary. 

 

1 hour ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Most KNOW IT ALL scientists, the CDC the HWO do not know it all. Including me. Confused at the least. So many do this, not do this, changes back and forth over the last year can drive you up a wall. Schools, everyone together all day for 5 days. No out breaks. No covid19 vaccine requirements. Even the teachers are not forced to get the vaccine, personally I think they should be. My son's female companion has been a 2rd grade teacher for many years. She got the J&J before the blood clots came up. So far she is fine. The cruise ships are now a far safer place than most all schools. The air conditioning systems alone should be in all schools. Non recirculated air. Always fresh air from outside. It takes a major A/C unit to accomplish that. Try cooling 90 degree air down to 72 degrees fast. Super HEPA filters also. The finer the filter the stronger the blower must be. Constantly cleaning and disinfecting. Personally we would feel super safe on a cruise ship.

 

That disdainful attitude is part of what has gotten the United States into trouble. Most scientists are fully aware that they "don't know it all" but they also know a hell of a lot more than most people about infectious diseases and how and to whom they spread. Many scientists are also more concerned with saving lives than pushing a business agenda. That does inconvenience those of us that enjoy going to restaurants, movie theaters, and... cruise ships but that doesn't mean they're wrong to prioritize human lives over the travel industry. 

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, optimusprime82 said:

I think a lot of people are forgetting that Covid-19 isn't just a Salmonella outbreak, it was a new disease

Not exactly. There have been other Sars diseases in the past. That's one of the reasons pharmaceutical companies were able to use existing technology to develop effective vaccines against a novel strain of an existing virus. It was NOT a new disease.

Your comment about "leadership" telling people to inject bleach is so unfortunate, it tells me you've bought into one of the many lies peddled online about what the former President did (and usually didn't) say. Anyway, you go on believing whatever you like. I choose to believe that the CDC made serious errors that they are now, belatedly (but thankfully) correcting. Have a nice evening. I don't wish to keep debating.

[optimusprime82]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Not exactly. There have been other Sars diseases in the past. That's one of the reasons pharmaceutical companies were able to use existing technology to develop effective vaccines against a novel strain of an existing virus. It was NOT a new disease.

Your comment about "leadership" telling people to inject bleach is so unfortunate, it tells me you've bought into one of the many lies peddled online about what the former President did (and usually didn't) say. Anyway, you go on believing whatever you like. I choose to believe that the CDC made serious errors that they are now, belatedly (but thankfully) correcting. Have a nice evening. I don't wish to keep debating.

 

A new "strain" or "mutation" that still required new vaccines. Split whatever hair you like.

I haven't bought into "lies." I watched the news conference and heard what "leadership" said. Thank you for giving me permission to continue believing whatever I like. My beliefs by the way are based on scientific evidence, not vacation wishes and conspiracies.

 

Sorry that you don't wish to continue debating an opinion that you willing shared on an internet forum. Sadly that's not how this works; you post an opinion, others are allowed to agree or challenge it. 

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, optimusprime82 said:

Sorry that you don't wish to continue debating an opinion that you willing shared on an internet forum. Sadly that's not how this works; you post an opinion, others are allowed to agree or challenge it. 

OK, so this will be my last comment to you: yes, I willingly shared an opinion on an internet forum, you are correct. And I never said others aren't allowed to challenge it (where in the world did you get THAT notion? I never said or even implied it). But you do NOT have to right to force me to debate the issue ad infinitum. I am allowed to stop debating whenever I like, just as you are. There comes a point in a debate or discussion where there is no fruitful dialogue left to be had and you're just beating a dead horse. For me, that time has come so I'm done. Thank you and goodbye.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by DCGuy64

[optimusprime82]

27 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I don't wish to keep debating.

 

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

OK, so this will be my last comment to you: yes, I willingly shared an opinion on an internet forum, you are correct. And I never said others aren't allowed to challenge it (where in the world did you get THAT notion? I never said or even implied it). But you do NOT have to right to force me to debate the issue ad infinitum. I am allowed to stop debating whenever I like, just as you are. Thank you and goodbye.

 

 

No one is forcing you to do anything lol. I encourage you to stop debating me whenever you feel that you can resist.

[MotownVoice]

22 hours ago, sfaaa said:

'98% of crew and 95% of passengers are fully vaccinated.' Why the exception? Make mandatory vaccination 100% on all ships.

I think we've all learned how that goes.

When a wild-eyed, bleating deer darts out in to the road in rush hour traffic and starts baying about it's civil liberties being trampled on........you just have a traffic jam.  There's just no way of getting around it.

It's not like you can shoot the deer.

Edited April 30, 2021 by MotownVoice

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I totally agree that wearing a mask while on a cruise makes no sense...unless you have a medical condition...such as auto immune issues.  That is why we will probably see some people wearing masks...so be it.

 

I can accept that.  I hope needing to do so will not be a long lasting need, post-Covid.  As we seem to agree, when will the post-Covid era begin?  

 

7 hours ago, sidari said:

when you can still catch and pass on the virus!

 

I admit confusion on this issue.  Has it definitely, scientifically been proven that one who is vaccinated can both catch the virus and spread the virus?  My understanding of this issue that "the jury was still out" in making a decision.  

[MotownVoice]

 

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

I admit confusion on this issue.  Has it definitely, scientifically been proven that one who is vaccinated can both catch the virus and spread the virus?  My understanding of this issue that "the jury was still out" in making a decision.  

There isn't enough broad science to definitively nail down the etiology of reinfection of someone previously exposed to Covid, nor whether a person vaccinated can still carry the disease asymptomatically.  There have been anecdotal cases, but nothing described and tested in a controlled study.  Science's focused attention presently is on variants.

But the jury is not out in making a decision on how to behave until we do know.

For now, until the CDC says otherwise, even if you are fully vaccinated (which means it's been two weeks since your second Morderna or Pfizer, or two week since you recieved your J&J) you should continue to avoid crowds, mask up in groups out of your home, wash your hands, and if you haven't been vaccinated, get there.

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, optimusprime82 said:

I'm sorry but I think this is a super weird thought process to have. Why do you care if the crew are wearing a mask? Do you care if you see restaurant or bar staff wearing gloves too? You have a lot of control over how many guests and crew you encounter everyday. The crew doesn't have that option, many of them will interact with hundreds of guests a day and perhaps a mask will help them stay healthy from Covid or other airborne illnesses. 

 

You make a good case for why the crew might want to wear a mask.  At least during the early months when cruising resumes and up to the point in time where we enter the post-Covid era, whenever that occurs.  

 

Do I care if restaurant and/or bar staff wear gloves?  Absolutely not.  That was being done pre-Covid by many employees in a variety of establishments.  Post-Covid?  Yes, such a practice will need to continue.  

 

Why do I care if the crew wear a mask?  Masks muffle voices.  Being able to fully view the face of my bartender, my Steward supplies non-verbal information to me that I can use in my interactions with them.  Being required to wear a mask is "not normal" in my opinion.  I hope for a return to some semblance of "cruising normality".  

 

[rkacruiser]

4 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

 

There isn't enough broad science to definitively nail down the etiology of reinfection of someone previously exposed to Covid, nor whether a person vaccinated can still carry the disease asymptomatically.  There have been anecdotal cases, but nothing described and tested in a controlled study.  Science's focused attention presently is on variants.

But the jury is not out in making a decision on how to behave until we do know.

For now, until the CDC says otherwise, even if you are fully vaccinated (which means it's been two weeks since your second Morderna or Pfizer, or two week since you recieved your J&J) you should continue to avoid crowds, mask up in groups out of your home, wash your hands, and if you haven't been vaccinated, get there.

 

Thank you for your post.  What you are saying is what I thought the situation is.  

 

 

[MotownVoice]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

 

Your comment about "leadership" telling people to inject bleach is so unfortunate, it tells me you've bought into one of the many lies peddled online about what the former President did (and usually didn't) say.

:...And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me..."

Donald Trump, Covid Team Press Conference - James Brady Press Briefing Room

April 23, 2020

 

[optimusprime82]

25 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Why do I care if the crew wear a mask?  Masks muffle voices.  Being able to fully view the face of my bartender, my Steward supplies non-verbal information to me that I can use in my interactions with them.  Being required to wear a mask is "not normal" in my opinion.  I hope for a return to some semblance of "cruising normality".  

 

I can understand wanting to be able see people faces. It certainly makes non-verbal communication easier especially when you smile at someone and then remember you have a mask on. With that said, I think it's a bit odd to say that you won't cruise anymore if you can't see people's mouths. You won't see the mouth of any cruise staff member if you refuse to cruise because of a mask policy. On the list of things that are important to me on a cruise seeing the mouth of a bartender, cabin steward or waiter is really, really, like scraping the bottom of the barrel low on the list. I think most of us are tired of wearing a mask but I'm not going let a masks ruin an otherwise enjoyable vacation. 

 

Edit: On the topic of "cruise normalcy," right now in the  United States we're at 0% since we're not cruising. If we can get back on board in 2021 that going to increase dramatically even with vaccination or mask requirements. If me or the staff wearing a mask is the worst sacrifice we have to make I still think we'll have 90+ percent of the "cruise normalcy" that we had before.

Edited April 30, 2021 by optimusprime82

[DCGuy64]

9 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

:...And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me..."

Donald Trump, Covid Team Press Conference - James Brady Press Briefing Room

April 23, 2020

 

Oh, I'm aware of that quote. DJT is not now and was never a medical expert, thus he doesn't count as "leadership" on that issue. And you can even tell by the casual way he phrased it that he wasn't even sure of its efficacy. Furthermore, to the extent that some people misinterpreted it, or didn't even bother to Google it to see if there was any truth to it, and then actually poisoned themselves in the process, is a sad indictment on how many ignorant people we have in this country. Only in America can people take something like that at face value and then when they're sick say "d-uh, I didn't know, the President said so." Unbelievable. We'll end up losing more people to ignorance than Covid. And the ignorance will still be around long after Covid has stopped being a pandemic. SMH......🙄

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

1 hour ago, optimusprime82 said:

 

A new "strain" or "mutation" that still required new vaccines. Split whatever hair you like.

I haven't bought into "lies." I watched the news conference and heard what "leadership" said. Thank you for giving me permission to continue believing whatever I like. My beliefs by the way are based on scientific evidence, not vacation wishes and conspiracies.

 

Sorry that you don't wish to continue debating an opinion that you willing shared on an internet forum. Sadly that's not how this works; you post an opinion, others are allowed to agree or challenge it. 

Your scientific evidence is bogus. Where did you ever get the notion that anew strain or mutation requires a new vaccine? Currently the new strain and the mutations are taken care of by the current vaccine. Guess you missed that one.

[optimusprime82]

9 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Your scientific evidence is bogus. Where did you ever get the notion that anew strain or mutation requires a new vaccine? Currently the new strain and the mutations are taken care of by the current vaccine. Guess you missed that one.

 

I was referring to Covid-19 being called a SARS variant that wasn't a new disease. Hence the new vaccines that have been developed to combat Covid-19. I didn't say that the current Covid-19 vaccines were not being effective against any Covid-19 variants.  

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, optimusprime82 said:

I can understand wanting to be able see people faces. It certainly makes non-verbal communication easier especially when you smile at someone and then remember you have a mask on. With that said, I think it's a bit odd to say that you won't cruise anymore if you can't see people's mouths

 

I have no interest in the mouth's of any of my fellow guests or the crew with whom I encounter.  One's non-verbal messages are communicated by one's entire face.  

 

[rkacruiser]

Just now, rkacruiser said:

 

I have no interest in the mouth's of any of my fellow guests or the crew with whom I encounter.  One's non-verbal messages are communicated by one's entire face.  

 

 

Even one's body posture may send a message to those who behold such.  

[Kruizin'Kath]

Being a nurse working with elderly patients through COVID-19, I can assure you that they can read your face, especially your smiles with a mask on!

 

My company has 62 facilities throughout New England and New York. In one close to me, 100% of residents were vaccinated and 11 have been since diagnosed with COVID. The jury is definitely still out on reinfection! We continue to wear masks, and I personally will gladly wear one on a cruise!!

 

As far as the 95% percent vaccination rate, besides children, there are people with health issues which contraindicate being vaccinated, as well as those who have religious beliefs that need to be taken into account. 100% of the population will not be vaccinated (unfortunately), nor will those sitting on the plane next to you or those in the hotel you might stay at. We all have our own comfort zones and that is how each of us will proceed!

 

Hope everyone stays safe and that we we be All Aboard soon!

 

 

[deliver42]

I'm vaccinated, will wear a mask, and when available, will get the booster, and I will enjoy myself on my next cruise, whether other people are vaccinated or not. I work in a supermarket so I'm close to unvaccinated people every day. I will not continue to live in fear. I'm 78, and intend on enjoying the rest of my life for however long that may be.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

I know Pfizer and I think Moderna say by the end of 2021 they will ahve a pill available. MY main reason for the mask situation. I do not hear well and watch lips to get the message. So the masks cause me to say a lot of times. Please repeat that. I do have a hearing aid but the masks also muffle the words spoken. A hearing aid is just that and aid. It does not replace your natural hearing at all. I can only hear out of one ear. The other is dead. Thanks to being in the service during nam. I am one of the very lucky service men.

[dexddd]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:25 AM, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

I agree. Just got off the phone with MSC. If you are only going to there island and no other Bahamas island like Nassau or Grad Bahamas. You do NOT need the health Visa. That is certainly a plus.

Thanks for update.  We'd only have interest in Ocean Cay since we are 0 for 2 there but always manage Nassau.