Now that the CDC is not going to require vaccines, would you want to cruise right away?

[harkinmr]

7 hours ago, Capt Stuebing said:

 

Are you confident those dates and timelines are accurate?

April 7th was the day the vaccines were administered. Cases were discovered the first week of May. Breakthrough cases are going to occur. The vaccines are not 100% effective and were never expected to be. That is why it’s important for everyone to be vaccinated, on a cruise or otherwise.  Asymptomatic infections with extremely low viral counts and spread factors should not create a crisis on a cruise ship. Unvaccinated/partially vaccinated cruises could be another story entirely. Protocols, testing, restrictions, possible outbreaks...what fun.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/14/996873507/what-to-make-of-the-yankees-outbreak-scientists-say-dont-panic-we-expected-this

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/20/health/yankees-covid-19-breakthrough-infections/index.html

[Ocean Boy]

7 hours ago, Capt Stuebing said:

 But my concern is about the ports we would visit and the unvaccinated people that we come into contact with. As opposed to any non vaccinated cruiser. 

Seems to me that is the perfect argument to start cruising with vaccination requirements. If we are going to possibly be exposed at port visits it is probably in everyone's best interest to return to a vaccinated population aboard the ship.

[2chiefs]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:59 PM, mrg0433 said:

NO worries since we got vaccinated in January.   I am not a mask wearer unless required in a store.  Glad CDC lifted mask  mandates.   Now cruise lines and stores need to relax.      Those who want to wear one r free to do so.  

Agree!

[coffeebean]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:18 PM, coldflame said:

 

I absolutely loathe how there is no middle ground anymore. If someone chooses not to take a vaccine they're antivaxxers. How about they're science people with family in the medical field who share concerns about taking a vaccine that has, as of this writing, less than one year in development? Did you know that normally vaccines can take 3-5 years to be approved? And nope it's certainly not because bureaucracy. It's because vaccines require scientific rigor and longitudinal studies before approval that were completely and entirely waived due to COVID (good reason to do so, of course, but doesn't change the fact how relatively poorly tested both mRNA vaccines are).

mRNA vaccines have been in development much longer than one year. The first experimentation was actually 30 years ago. In fact, mRNA vaccines have been in trials for treatment of cancer long before this pandemic. When China informed scientists of the sequence of the virus, the mRNA vaccines only had to be "tweeked" to address this specific virus. Read about it.......

The story of mRNA Vaccines

[coffeebean]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:18 PM, coldflame said:

 

doesn't change the fact how relatively poorly tested both mRNA vaccines are).

Millions of people have been inoculated with mRNA vaccines with so few serious side effects. IMHO, this is one of THE most actively "tested" vaccines ever. Has there ever been millions of people who have partaken in vaccine trials? I honestly do not think so.

 

These mRNA vaccines have, so far, proven they are extremely safe. Full FDA approval for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will be forth coming as both companies will be applying for full FDA approval.

[coffeebean]

On 5/16/2021 at 7:44 PM, smokeybandit said:

Some colleges plan to require it. Others "highly encourage it"

 

I expect some lawsuits against the colleges (specifically ones that get federal funding) since they aren't allowed to require a vaccine under EUA. 

It won't be long for full FDA approval.

Pfizer and Moderna Seek Full FDA Approval for Covid-19 Vaccines

[cruisegus]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:44 PM, smokeybandit said:

I expect some lawsuits against the colleges (specifically ones that get federal funding) since they aren't allowed to require a vaccine under EUA. 

This is another one of those statement that have no factual basis.  If so point me to a "Law" that precludes the requiring of a vaccine that is under EUA.

 

It is much like those statement that say you can't ask me to show you my vaccination record because of HIPPA laws, when a quick search reveals that HIPPA only applies to medical providers releasing your information without your expressed permission.

[coffeebean]

On 5/16/2021 at 9:03 PM, coldflame said:

 

I'm fully aware mRNA vaccines (and other treatments) have been in the lab for quite some time now. This is the first time outside the lab and on hundreds millions of people worldwide.

 

And further it's not the same AT ALL to be in development to medical use approval. So your point is moot.

Is the fact that 80 million Americans have been inoculated with mRNA vaccines also moot? This is, without a doubt, the largest "trial" for any vaccine in history. AND......they have been extremely safe so far. I don't think anyone would call that "moot".

[coffeebean]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:57 PM, tserface said:

 We get vaccines for shingles, flu, and tetanus/etc.  Also whooping cough is mixed in with one of them.

 

 

Tom

You get these vaccines YEARLY? That was the question posed to you by another poster. I've had the Shingrix vaccine and the booster 3 months later but was told I will not need it again in my lifetime. Tetanus is another vaccine that is not a yearly vaccine as far as I know.

[coldflame]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

Millions of people have been inoculated with mRNA vaccines with so few serious side effects. IMHO, this is one of THE most actively "tested" vaccines ever. Has there ever been millions of people who have partaken in vaccine trials? I honestly do not think so.

 

These mRNA vaccines have, so far, proven they are extremely safe. Full FDA approval for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will be forth coming as both companies will be applying for full FDA approval.

 

Do you know what longitudinal means? The original test  group for these vaccines were inoculated with them less than a year ago. Mass vaccination did not start until late October and not in earnest until late December/Early January. Yes, the data for both vaccines look very good, but it doesn't pass the test of a time sampling. The best we can say about the vaccines is that they are safe and they work *UP TO NOW*. We don't have nearly enough longitudinal data to make any inference about its long term safety or efficacy.

Edited May 23, 2021 by coldflame

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, coldflame said:

 

Do you know what longitudinal means? The original test  group for these vaccines were inoculated with them less than a year ago. Mass vaccination did not start until late October and not in earnest until late December/Early January. Yes, the data for both vaccines look very good, but it doesn't pass the test of a time sampling. The best we can say about the vaccines is that they are safe and they work *UP TO NOW*. We don't have nearly enough longitudinal data to make any inference about its long term safety or efficacy.

The beautiful thing is, you don’t have to take it, but for heavens sake, keep it to yourself, we don’t care. 

[Waterluv]

No

[Shorewalk Holmes]

4 hours ago, coldflame said:

 

Do you know what longitudinal means? The original test  group for these vaccines were inoculated with them less than a year ago. Mass vaccination did not start until late October and not in earnest until late December/Early January. Yes, the data for both vaccines look very good, but it doesn't pass the test of a time sampling. The best we can say about the vaccines is that they are safe and they work *UP TO NOW*. We don't have nearly enough longitudinal data to make any inference about its long term safety or efficacy.

 

I've liked many of your posts, but I respectfully disagree on the vaccine issue. 

 

We can believe two things at once:

 

1. Yes, studies of possible long-term harm from vaccines aren't complete, but

 

2. Given the large amount of data we have already, the odds that they will show long-term harm seem very small. 

 

The second point is critical, because vax rates are extremely low in many states, especially in the south.  If they don't improve drastically, there will be pockets of covid among unvaccinated people for years to come.  The disruption of cruises is only one of many bad consequences.  The unvaccinated will be the victims.

 

Of course we must keep studying the vaccines, but I know of no strong reason to believe that evidence of substantial harm will suddenly appear.  So IMHO the safest course, for a person and their family and friends, is to get one.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[Biker19]

51 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

If they don't improve drastically, there will be pockets of covid among unvaccinated people for years to come. 

And what if there aren't?

[BOOKBOOKBOOK]

2 hours ago, Biker19 said:

And what if there aren't?

 

Why take the chance to find out the answer to this question? We already know variants exist, and they did not emerge from vaccinated people. Vaccinations, stopping the spread, and eventual eradication of COVID-19 is our best chance at stopping the emergence of new variants that we may have trouble dealing with in the future (more trouble than the forms we're currently dealing with). The last thing we want is for COVID-19 to become like the seasonal flu with different strains floating around.

 

People who are choosing not to take the vaccine and/or are on the fence about it continuously repeat that long-term effects of the vaccine are unknown. At the same time, they are not speaking about the long-term effects of COVID-19, which are indeed known. Damaged heart muscle, lung scarring, and brain damage (strokes, seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome), to name a few.

[bucfan2]

2 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

Why take the chance to find out the answer to this question? We already know variants exist, and they did not emerge from vaccinated people. Vaccinations, stopping the spread, and eventual eradication of COVID-19 is our best chance at stopping the emergence of new variants that we may have trouble dealing with in the future (more trouble than the forms we're currently dealing with). The last thing we want is for COVID-19 to become like the seasonal flu with different strains floating around.

 

People who are choosing not to take the vaccine and/or are on the fence about it continuously repeat that long-term effects of the vaccine are unknown. At the same time, they are not speaking about the long-term effects of COVID-19, which are indeed known. Damaged heart muscle, lung scarring, and brain damage (strokes, seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome), to name a few.

Enough of the fear mongering.  Stay home, stay scared, stay wherever you 'feel' best....time to move on already and get cruising.

[time4u2go]

3 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

People who are choosing not to take the vaccine and/or are on the fence about it continuously repeat that long-term effects of the vaccine are unknown. At the same time, they are not speaking about the long-term effects of COVID-19, which are indeed known. Damaged heart muscle, lung scarring, and brain damage (strokes, seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome), to name a few.

Very true. 

[harkinmr]

50 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

Enough of the fear mongering.  Stay home, stay scared, stay wherever you 'feel' best....time to move on already and get cruising.

Seems to me that most of the “fear mongering” these days is coming from those who are refusing to take the vaccine. So I think those people should “stay home” and “stay scared”. Cruising is clearly going to start for vaccinated passengers only. A lot of things in life are going to be easier and more accessible for vaccinated people. This pandemic is a very real thing despite all the deniers’ false claims and life is changing world-wide. Folks gotta live with the consequences, like it or not. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by harkinmr

[bucfan2]

3 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Seems to me that most of the “fear mongering” these days is coming from those who are refusing to take the vaccine. So I think those people should “stay home” and “stay scared”. Cruising is clearly going to start for vaccinated passengers only. A lot of things in life are going to be easier and more accessible for vaccinated people. This pandemic is a very real thing despite all the deniers’ false claims and life is changing world-wide. Folks gotta live with the consequences, like it or not. 

Seems to be it’s on both sides, but you may be right...just don’t get it. Tired of vaccine talk, and quite honestly, tired of the pro vaxxers (yes, I’m vaxxed) thinking they’re somehow above-and-beyond those that don’t get it. 

[Ocean Boy]

4 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

Seems to be it’s on both sides, but you may be right...just don’t get it. Tired of vaccine talk, and quite honestly, tired of the pro vaxxers (yes, I’m vaxxed) thinking they’re somehow above-and-beyond those that don’t get it. 

I don't think vaccinated folks think they are above the non-vaxxed. I think they feel that they have done their part to help protect the non-vaxxed. First they masked and distanced. Then they got vaccinated. I think they just don't feel compelled to alter their lifestyles any longer to help protect those who refuse get the vaccine. And that includes their lifestyle when they get back aboard a cruise ship.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I don't think vaccinated folks think they are above the non-vaxxed. I think they feel that they have done their part to help protect the non-vaxxed. First they masked and distanced. Then they got vaccinated. I think they just don't feel compelled to alter their lifestyles any longer to help protect those who refuse get the vaccine. And that includes their lifestyle when they get back aboard a cruise ship.

This. Very well said.  

[bucfan2]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

I don't think vaccinated folks think they are above the non-vaxxed. I think they feel that they have done their part to help protect the non-vaxxed. First they masked and distanced. Then they got vaccinated. I think they just don't feel compelled to alter their lifestyles any longer to help protect those who refuse get the vaccine. And that includes their lifestyle when they get back aboard a cruise ship.

I understand.  And I was wrong 'generalizing'...it's certainly not all 'shot' folks...it's the few that seem to add to the division.

I chose to get the experimental therapy, but certainly respect the opinion of those for/against.  We're best to skip the mask discussion, especially if there's supposed 'faith' in the jab.  Let's just get back to the water. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by bucfan2

[coldflame]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

I don't think vaccinated folks think they are above the non-vaxxed. I think they feel that they have done their part to help protect the non-vaxxed. First they masked and distanced. Then they got vaccinated. I think they just don't feel compelled to alter their lifestyles any longer to help protect those who refuse get the vaccine. And that includes their lifestyle when they get back aboard a cruise ship.

This is the crux of the problem, you're throwing a large part of the population under the bus. We masked and distanced (and continue to do so) for over 13 months now, but are waiting at least a year (say November -- a year after mass vaccination started) before rushing in to get vaccinated. When you generalize you're drawing a straw man. And no one is asking the vaccinated to alter their lifestyle for those of us looking at the vaccine numbers. If you're vaccinated and/or have anti-bodies feel free to live your life just like before February of 2020.

[godawgs227]

Yes, fully vaccinated & ready to go mid-August on Celebrity Equinox after 24 on Royal. Hopefully it sails.

[SidneyHuff1950]

5 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

Why take the chance to find out the answer to this question? We already know variants exist, and they did not emerge from vaccinated people. Vaccinations, stopping the spread, and eventual eradication of COVID-19 is our best chance at stopping the emergence of new variants that we may have trouble dealing with in the future (more trouble than the forms we're currently dealing with). The last thing we want is for COVID-19 to become like the seasonal flu with different strains floating around.

 

People who are choosing not to take the vaccine and/or are on the fence about it continuously repeat that long-term effects of the vaccine are unknown. At the same time, they are not speaking about the long-term effects of COVID-19, which are indeed known. Damaged heart muscle, lung scarring, and brain damage (strokes, seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome), to name a few.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news son, but covid aint ever going away. Even if the US ends covid infections tomorrow, the rest of the world is going to have it. India has over 400000 new case every day alone, and I dont even know how many cases Brazil has. Either way, its a pipe dream to think the world is going to end this, covid will wind up like the seasonal flu which can be traced back to the Spanish Flu.