New CDC Guidance 5/26, significant changes for masks and dining

[not-enough-cruising]

49 minutes ago, kearney said:

What about ships with fewer than 95% vaccinated... eg Royals plans to have more families...?

Masks

Social Distancing 

Capacity controls at venues 

NO FUN

Not worth the $$

Edited May 29, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[firekapy]

On 5/26/2021 at 3:36 PM, Jeremiah1212 said:

Celebrity and the few others committed to the 95% plan should definitely take advantage of this. 

 

Get on an unvaccinated cruise with a bunch of restrictions or get on a almost fully vaccinated cruise where it's nearly like pre-COVID cruising? Easy decision for me. 

Seems like a no brainer, however , will Florida allow this?

[kearney]

43 minutes ago, firekapy said:

Seems like a no brainer, however , will Florida allow this?

Exactly...Desantis could end up hurting cruising more than helping...I just don’t see his gamble going his way... mediation has put the pressure on him more than the CDC... and today the CDC is looking more cooperative....funny the difference a few weeks can make. I just hope the Nassau sailings are run under the 95% rules

[not-enough-cruising]

5 minutes ago, kearney said:

Exactly...Desantis could end up hurting cruising more than helping...I just don’t see his gamble going his way... mediation has put the pressure on him more than the CDC... and today the CDC is looking more cooperative....funny the difference a few weeks can make. I just hope the Nassau sailings are run under the 95% rules

Nassau sailings are running with everyone 16 and over vaccinated, however there is no 95% rule since this is not governed by the CDC

[TheMastodon]

On 5/26/2021 at 6:17 PM, jrapps said:

The CDC posted new guidance today (5/26) specifically for vaccinated travelers, and cruises with 95% vaccinated passengers). There are major changes in here. Buffets are back! Masks are gone!

 

Masks

• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that—if they are fully vaccinated—they may gather or conduct activities outdoors, including engaging in extended meal service or beverage consumption, without wearing a mask.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise crew who are fully vaccinated that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in areas of the ship that are inaccessible to passengers.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets).
• For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas.

 

Physical Distancing

• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets).
• For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, the following requirements are recommendations only.
• I wont type it all here but basically if 95% vaccinated, no long er need to space out elevators, theaters, dining, etc. Also no more required restrictions for outdoor water facilities

 

Food Service (Buffets are BACK!)

• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets).
• For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, the following requirements are recommendations only.\
• Same, I wont post the whole thing here but no longer need to limit or re-layout dining, they can have buffets, no barriers required, etc.

   “¯\_(ツ)_/¯“

 

 

[Biker19]

5 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Nassau sailings are running with everyone 16 and over vaccinated, however there is no 95% rule since this is not governed by the CDC

Not sure we know that and the first sailing is still two weeks away.

[shutterbug63]

17 hours ago, kearney said:

I don't understand... if you are vaccinated...why do you have to vaccinate for those under 12. Once fully vaccinated you can go without masks or socially distancing... the ones at risk are the unvaccinated...and the more vaccinated people around them ..the less chance they will get it.. Here is a nice writeup from Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals.html.. they were several weeks ahead of CDC... I assume CDC got even more data to make them feel comfortable making the changes

Because (from what I've read) vaccinated people can still carry the virus (i.e,, they are either asymptomatic or just don't get very sick) although much less of it. The problem is that if they around people that are unvaccinated and/or immunocompromised, it's possible they could spread the virus to them. If our goal is stop this virus from spreading, that would seem to be a problem.

Edited May 30, 2021 by shutterbug63

[kearney]

4 minutes ago, shutterbug63 said:

Because (from what I've read) vaccinated people can still carry the virus (i.e,, they are either asymptomatic or just don't get very sick) although much less of it. The problem is that if they around people that are unvaccinated and/or immunocompromised, it's possible they could spread the virus to them. If our goal is stop this virus from spreading, that would seem to be a problem.

Did you read the link? 

[At Sea At Peace]

1 minute ago, kearney said:

Did you read the link? 

 

Thanks for the link.  There are so many results of studies, that obviously take time, and even more to come for long-term results that can only come with longer terms, that it is hard for even the ardent followers to keep up.

 

That is why the 'experts' and 'CDC' guidelines are meeting such resistance as one thing that we now know is that they don't know now.

[kearney]

13 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Nassau sailings are running with everyone 16 and over vaccinated, however there is no 95% rule since this is not governed by the CDC

They tweaked the policy...sailings after Aug 1 those 12 and over need to be vaccinated https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/do-i-need-a-covid-vaccine-to-cruise-what-counts-as-proof  An earlier post indicated that there might be cancellations due to this change...

[kearney]

6 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Thanks for the link.  There are so many results of studies, that obviously take time, and even more to come for long-term results that can only come with longer terms, that it is hard for even the ardent followers to keep up.

 

That is why the 'experts' and 'CDC' guidelines are meeting such resistance as one thing that we now know is that they don't know now.

You are so right! It is hard to keep up with the changes....and flip flops. I recall when the head of CDC said she had a feeling of impending doom one day and the very next day came out and said that vaccinated people could not get or give the virus....THEN the CDC came out and said she misspoke. The link I had ... was published around the time she noted that vaccinated people couldn't get or give covid (my words...she was a bit more nuanced). During this same period they came out with guidance for fully vaccinated people saying that if you hung out with fully vaccinated you did not have to mask or socially distance..... but then for cruise ships they were stuck on older guidance... so it gets really confusing. So it is now clear about the 95% sailings....but I am hoping that the Bahamas ones with unknown number of children <12 (post Aug 1)... will follow what rules? We do know that they have already said Coco Cay is no masks... so I am hopeful that there will be no masks on board inside or out. But we shall see... I knew it was a gamble when I signed up..

 

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, shutterbug63 said:

Because (from what I've read) vaccinated people can still carry the virus (i.e,, they are either asymptomatic or just don't get very sick) although much less of it. The problem is that if they around people that are unvaccinated and/or immunocompromised, it's possible they could spread the virus to them. If our goal is stop this virus from spreading, that would seem to be a problem.

 

So, let’s stay locked down forever!!!! Yeah!!!

 

So, we can eat in public, we can visit the mouse, we can do anything, but we can’t go on a cruise like normal?

 

The world and the people running it are truly stupid

[At Sea At Peace]

41 minutes ago, kearney said:

You are so right! It is hard to keep up with the changes....and flip flops. I recall when the head of CDC said she had a feeling of impending doom one day and the very next day came out and said that vaccinated people could not get or give the virus....THEN the CDC came out and said she misspoke. The link I had ... was published around the time she noted that vaccinated people couldn't get or give covid (my words...she was a bit more nuanced). During this same period they came out with guidance for fully vaccinated people saying that if you hung out with fully vaccinated you did not have to mask or socially distance..... but then for cruise ships they were stuck on older guidance... so it gets really confusing. So it is now clear about the 95% sailings....but I am hoping that the Bahamas ones with unknown number of children <12 (post Aug 1)... will follow what rules? We do know that they have already said Coco Cay is no masks... so I am hopeful that there will be no masks on board inside or out. But we shall see... I knew it was a gamble when I signed up..

 

 

Yep.

 

That's why it is so hard for parents of the young, I believe it's under either 17 or 19 that cumulatively record 300 virus deaths, to just go along with the recommendation by 'experts' and the 'CDC' for vaccinations when the long-term effects are not known (and this is a fact since the passage of time in the long-term has not occurred).

 

There are those who cite the risk of them 'risking them, the vaccinated.  The chances are minimal based on the studies of the young and the success of the vaccines.  Is the risk below zero, no.  It can't be.

 

There are those who cite the risk to others, not them, such as those with immune system risk and can't get vaccinated.  Again, the chances are minimal, not zero and can't be.

 

From the CDC ~

 

[At Sea At Peace]

2 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

So, let’s stay locked down forever!!!! Yeah!!!

 

 

Unfortunately, we're stuck in the dogma of "if it only saves one life."

 

https://isi.org/intercollegiate-review/if-it-saves-just-one-life-fallacy/

 

Not Copyrighted

 

THERE’S NO WAY AROUND TRADE-OFFS

 

The “if it saves just one life” argument is usually nonsense. All human actions involve trade-offs. As the speed-limit example illustrates, a gain in one direction inevitably leads to losses in another. There is probably no such thing as a law that universally saves lives. There are only laws that save lives in one place in exchange for losing lives in another.

 

When politicians say, “If it saves just one life,” they can appear to care deeply while simultaneously absolving themselves of the responsibility of crafting a rational response to a difficult issue. It allows them to trade on emotions instead of facts.

 

If we really believed that any law is justified if it saves just one life, we would require all Americans to pass a mental health evaluation on a regular basis or be institutionalized (more than 38,000 Americans commit suicide annually). We would outlaw all motor vehicles (almost 35,000 Americans die in vehicle accidents annually). We would require all houses to be single-story structures (more than 26,000 die in falls annually). We would ban alcohol (almost 17,000 die annually from alcohol-related liver disease). We would require people to be certified as swimmers before allowing them into any large body of water (more than 3,500 die from drowning annually). We would prohibit women from getting pregnant unless they had no family history of birth complications (more than 900 American women die in childbirth annually).

 

Of course, none of these things will ever happen, nor should they. Life is full of dangers that cannot be legislated away.

[kearney]

8 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Yep.

 

That's why it is so hard for parents of the young, I believe it's under either 17 or 19 that cumulatively record 300 virus deaths, to just go along with the recommendation by 'experts' and the 'CDC' for vaccinations when the long-term effects are not known (and this is a fact since the passage of time in the long-term has not occurred).

 

There are those who cite the risk of them 'risking them, the vaccinated.  The chances are minimal based on the studies of the young and the success of the vaccines.  Is the risk below zero, no.  It can't be.

 

There are those who cite the risk to others, not them, such as those with immune system risk and can't get vaccinated.  Again, the chances are minimal, not zero and can't be.

 

From the CDC ~

 

This is good information and helps put things in perspective. Frankly, I think people don't understand the concept of risk management... You step out of the house...you take a risk....you step into the tub you take a risk. Each day we subconsciously make decisions over the level of risk we are willing to take. We have learned that wearing seatbelts helps reduce the risk (not eliminate it) in a car. Something to note from the chart 300 children age 0-17 died.... not necessarily OF Covid.. but INVOLVING Covid... so they could have had Covid and cancer..or fallen down the stairs..but they had Covid. So some subset of that died because of Covid. I am glad I am not a parent. This is a difficult choice to make

[suzyluvs2cruise]

6 hours ago, kearney said:

They tweaked the policy...sailings after Aug 1 those 12 and over need to be vaccinated https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/do-i-need-a-covid-vaccine-to-cruise-what-counts-as-proof  An earlier post indicated that there might be cancellations due to this change...

 

And this policy is specifically for sailings from Seattle and the Bahamas. It remain to be seen what the policy will be when sailings begin from other US ports.