The Governor of the American Virgin Islands asks Gov. DeSantis to change his stance on cruise lines asking for vaccinations

[navybankerteacher]

13 hours ago, Anita Latte said:

Does Medicare/Medicaid not pay for medical care that results from smoking, eating crap, not exercising, unprotected sex, etc? I get the sentiment because I feel similarly for those that deal with preventable health issues that result from lifestyle choices. There’s a safety net there that maybe should be swept away, then people may put more import on what they eat and do and have a greater investment in their choices if we start saying things like Type 2 Diabetes and STDs, etc won’t be covered.

Don’t you think that there might be just a bit of difference between having gotten into a habit that is hard to quit, or having had a childhood with poor nutrition - both of which may involve great difficulty in overcoming —— and simply ignoring overwhelming evidence concerning an easy protection against a deadly disease?

[evandbob]

I mentioned the personal responsibility theme because many folk who shun the vaccine today used that argument to promote the denial of services for other medical conditions like addiction services.

 

I attempted to point out the logical end of that argument would deny most overweight folks from some diabetes,  cardiac and joint replacement remedies that many of those proponents shared.

 

So yeah, sarcasm intended.  Sorry if I didn't include an emoji to exemplify it.

[Joebucks]

 

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Don’t you think that there might be just a bit of difference between having gotten into a habit that is hard to quit, or having had a childhood with poor nutrition - both of which may involve great difficulty in overcoming —— and simply ignoring overwhelming evidence concerning an easy protection against a deadly disease?

 

Some habits are not easily overcome. You are correct. However, why even try when everyone will make excuses for you and pay for it. The biggest "overwhelming evidence" we have in all of COVID is those who didn't take care of themselves now need everyone to care for them, again. Things like obesity and poor lifestyle choices cause far more deaths. Fascinating that any claims of personal responsibility for managing your own health are met with clash. Responsibility in 2021 is not caring for your own health, it's pretend caring about others.

 

The argument of "infectious disease is different! You can't compare the two" is a terrible one too. Just because that is the common rebuttal in the holster of team morality doesn't make it anymore true. Let's not forget. People aren't dying from COVID alone. It is aggravated by other conditions.

 

Obese people do not deserve to be treated poorly. However, it is disgusting the culture we have adopted with a lack of self care and a lack of talking about the real problems. Obesity is the true pandemic. How ironic that the side of "health, health, health" not only ignores the real issue, but glorifies it. 

[Anita Latte]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Don’t you think that there might be just a bit of difference between having gotten into a habit that is hard to quit, or having had a childhood with poor nutrition - both of which may involve great difficulty in overcoming —— and simply ignoring overwhelming evidence concerning an easy protection against a deadly disease?

I’m very surprised to see gray in what I’ve come to expect to be your black and white world from your posts I have read. Do I believe there are extenuating circumstances? Do I believe there is not a one size fits all solution? I absolutely do.

 

However, I would argue about COVID being such a deadly disease in and of

itself. I believe the overall response to the pandemic has been narrow focused with a reliance on a “magic pill” (something so many people seem to be looking for for other health related challenges) or in this case, a vaccine and while I’m not going to argue against the vaccine in general, I do take exception to the fact that there has been little to no talk about the wake up call this virus has been for the general state of health of so many people in the world. As a PP said, there are underlying conditions that contribute greatly to how deadly the disease has been. At a 1.8% fatality rate for the US, that may seem small but it reflects a large number. What we aren’t knowing is how many of those deaths or occurrences of Long COVID (not in the fatality rate) have occurred in otherwise healthy people, at a healthy weight with no other diseases.

 

All this force and effort to get the US vaccinated is kind of pathetic. The world is desperate for these vaccines and in many places the state of health care in those places is a reflection of the need for the vaccine help. In a pandemic, we need to open our eyes to the fact that viruses don’t recognize borders. It’s a matter of protecting the seriously at risk the world over. The UK is currently debating whether or not they will administer the vaccine to their general teen population because it seems out of balance to vaccinate those that are likely healthy enough to not have severe cases while there are others in the world that are more at risk. The at risk youth, yes, but the talk I’ve read recognizes that the world could use some more help.

 

Frankly, I’m disgusted by all the incentives to get vaccinated here. All that money would have been better spent making improvements elsewhere…like outside the US. Or hey, maybe helping to pay for things that are seriously in need of funding. As a Navy person, I hope you are spending as much effort lobbying for our Navy’s budget concerns as you do spreading your opinion about vaccines and COVID on these boards. I’m sure you know the status of the legacy maintenance systems and the readiness of our fleet and how needed the help is for that situation. Yes, I was sarcastic and that’s not well done on me…but I do believe that there’s an entire dialogue of lifestyle choices that aren’t being talked about in the focus on vaccines. I also believe that there has been a huge missed opportunity for that conversation and education as to the impact of lifestyle choices and susceptibility to what could otherwise not be as deadly a disease. All the talk is about the scare of new variants if the virus continues to circulate if there isn’t “herd immunity” but the fact is that we don’t know the viral load the vaccinated carry (so many factors affect the immune response) so it’s likely somewhat unique among individuals. So the worry about new variants seems very selfish to me when there are seriously at risk unvaccinated in other parts of the world.

 

What some people don’t  understand is that continuing to say the same things over and over doesn’t change anyone’s mind. What might change someone’s mind? Scarcity. Take away how easy is it right now. Make it harder to get. Start sending the vaccines to places that need and want them. Then you might light a spark under people to get a jab. It’s like people have completely forgotten the spirit of independence that radiates from so many in this country. That spirit is not convinced to do what the masses are doing for any external reason whatsoever. That spirit of independence wants to make up their mind without outside pressure, because it’s what they decide to do and they have peace about their decision because they came to the conclusion to do it on their own. The world needs to lay off the pressure because that seriously only makes some people dig in their heels harder. It’s like there are no marketing people at all running the vaccine program…there is no understanding of the current target market at all.

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, Anita Latte said:

...

The world needs to lay off the pressure because that seriously only makes some people dig in their heels harder. It’s like there are no marketing people at all running the vaccine program…there is no understanding of the current target market at all.

No - what our part of the world needs to do in this context is to stop coddling the selfish and uninformed who fail to act responsibly. Then, when we have  controlled our own sphere, we can do everything in our power to assist less well off societies gain control in their spheres.

[rkacruiser]

On 6/17/2021 at 12:59 PM, Anita Latte said:

 What might change someone’s mind? Scarcity. Take away how easy is it right now. Make it harder to get

 

You make an interesting point.  The effort to get the vaccine to be created and then started to be administered was done under the banner of a President who declared himself to be a "War President".  

 

The most famous "War President" has been FDR.  Somehow, he was able to get the country united in a coordinated effort to defeat our enemies.  Was scarcity of basic supplies encouraging such unity?  Meat, sugar, rubber, etc. items were rationed or unavailable.  

 

I wonder how many discussions have taken place in the Trump and Biden Administrations about "why can't we get the unity" that would help our country to diminish the significance of this virus in our national life?  

 

The unity during WW II made us more of the United States of America than we are in 2021.  

 

 

[CPT Trips]

Antifa saved the day back then.