So is there still the 5% of non vax kids for July or Aug?

[KmomChicago]

On 6/12/2021 at 9:45 PM, Tapi said:

I agree. The children count on lines like Celebrity and Holland America is normally a fraction of what it is on Carnival and other family friendly cruise lines. Our last cruise was on Holland America (Feb 2020) and the kid count was 110 out of 2,600 passengers. Had that sailing operated under the current restrictions, they would’ve been able to keep the children count under 5% without having to deny boarding to anybody.

 

As a side note, even though these cruise lines aren’t as “kid friendly”, my children have enjoyed them tremendously. One of the reasons why they loved our last cruise on HAL so much was exactly because there weren’t too many kids onboard. The kids club wasn’t packed so the counselors could provide a more personal experience. They also had an opportunity to make real friends. Since the groups were so small, they were with the same exact 10-15 kids every time.

 

I can see that being an advantage. In fact since having a kid of my own we've only cruised on Carnival and RC, during school breaks no less, and of course the place is overrun with the little varmints. I have seen that all the mainstream lines have children's clubs now and assumed they must get lighter use, but it's nice to see that those lines are reaching out to the family market just the same. 

[BoozinCroozin]

On 6/11/2021 at 12:18 PM, JEANMR1 said:

I listened to the live Facebook feed this morning and it sounded like there would be no kids at all but I’m still not sure because I haven’t gotten anything from Carnival nor have they canceled my cruise. Also does anyone know if there still be $600 onboard credit if you’re bumped off the cruise because you have a child under 12?

 

Thanks in advance

Christine Duffy stated it clearly on GMA for the MG arrival. Carnival will be vaccine only to start. She was asked a second time by the interviewer about kids under 12. Christine repeated that it is unfortunate and unless the CDC lifts the requirement, no unvaccinated passengers. Anyone with a little common sense clearly understands she alluded to the lifting of the CSO.

 

Carnival nor any other cruise line can avoid legal issues with trying to determine who on the ship gets the 5% number. There are legally protected groups that would first have to be included. Those are people from specific religions and/or ADA. Next, they would need to make it clear on the how they determine the remaining spots on the ship for the unprotected classes. You will get potential legal claims, which could be valid, from people that booked first. Then the worst scenario would be that you do have the number down to 5% and assumptions on No Shows was wrong and having to deny boarding to families the day of. That would be all over the news and social media. 

 

The safest course of action is to declare July and August as vaccinated only. There are legal ways to do this without requiring proof. Voluntary proof of vaccines will allow boarding between 11-3PM. All others must report to an offsite testing facility that begins testing at 2PM. It is YOUR responsibility to have a negative test AND be back to the terminal before the final boarding call. If YOU fail to do so, you are considered a No Show and not subject to a refund. How many would be willing to gamble that 1-2 hour facility testing window on a $3,000+ vacation?

[BoozinCroozin]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:58 PM, Elaine5715 said:

No where does it say the 5% will be held for kids

The 5% starts with legally protected classes. I am not 100% which they are, but religion will definitely be one of them and probably ADA/medical. The last on the list will be under 12. 

 

It is my opinion that there are far too many legal holes in this to even consider. The Legal team will have to provide an estimate on cost of litigation and settlements vs the losses due to going vaccinated only. Vaccinated only is the least costly method to the cruise lines because they simply use the CDC as the reason and there can be no lawsuits because of it. There is no ambiguity or grounds for legal issues. It is black and white with no way to interpret or misinterpret the direction.

[BoozinCroozin]

On 6/12/2021 at 4:28 PM, TNcruising02 said:

I don’t think they will approve one child in a cabin and not the other. The fairest way to do it is on a first come basis in the order each family filled out the exemption request.

I think the most fair way is by booking date, not when some random email comes out and the first Keyboard Kommandos can complete it. The person that booked in 2018 with 2 kids under 12 should have the first shot at it before the person that booked in March 2021. 

[TNcruising02]

5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I think the most fair way is by booking date, not when some random email comes out and the first Keyboard Kommandos can complete it. The person that booked in 2018 with 2 kids under 12 should have the first shot at it before the person that booked in March 2021. 

Yes, that would be the fairest way and nondiscriminatory.

[deweytrader]

46 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Yes, that would be the fairest way and nondiscriminatory.

In theory, but in my case I rebooked the 7/24/21 Breeze because my 7/24/21 Mardi Gras was cancelled.  I booked the Mardi Gras years ago but the Breeze only weeks ago.

[tkportersat]

This is hurting my brain.  I'm glad I don't cruise until November, hope all this nonsense is over with.  I would honestly just cancel and move on but now my mom and her boyfriend booked the cruise as well 🙄 

 

I feel terrible for the folks with kiddos in limbo.  Mine is 11 and honestly don't think I would get him the shot if available.  My whole fam has already ridden the Covid train. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by tkportersat

[BlerkOne]

7 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I think the most fair way is by booking date, not when some random email comes out and the first Keyboard Kommandos can complete it. The person that booked in 2018 with 2 kids under 12 should have the first shot at it before the person that booked in March 2021. 

It never was first come first served.

[BoozinCroozin]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

It never was first come first served.

I beg to differ. There are people that are on cruises that are being denied an opportunity to apply for the exemption. You can see their email responses that state that they have already exceeded the number of exemption requests and will not accept any more. Now, I am making a massive assumption that the people that reported that are being honest. If that is the case, then it clearly is based on first come first served.

[TNcruising02]

10 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I beg to differ. There are people that are on cruises that are being denied an opportunity to apply for the exemption. You can see their email responses that state that they have already exceeded the number of exemption requests and will not accept any more. Now, I am making a massive assumption that the people that reported that are being honest. If that is the case, then it clearly is based on first come first served.

I agree because why would they deny someone who applied and save that space for someone who booked early, but just hasn't gotten around to applying for an exemption?  It seems that Carnival filled the spaces with those who already applied.

Edited June 15, 2021 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

18 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I beg to differ. There are people that are on cruises that are being denied an opportunity to apply for the exemption. You can see their email responses that state that they have already exceeded the number of exemption requests and will not accept any more. Now, I am making a massive assumption that the people that reported that are being honest. If that is the case, then it clearly is based on first come first served.

If anything, it means the queue filled up. Many people not on the applicable sailings applied anyway. They would automatically be rejected.

 

Meanwhile, Carnival decided no one under 12 sailing, and everyone else needs to be vaccinated, with very few exceptions, narrowly defined by law. Carnival has said exceptions won't be made until after final payment has been made, so they have an idea of how many exceptions are possible.

 

There is no 5% rule - it was always at least 95% vaccinated. It will be higher to allow for cancellations, etc.

 

https://www.carnival.com/legal/covid-19-legal-notices/covid-19-guest-protocols

 

[BoozinCroozin]

Not arguing. Simply stating that people on cruises starting in July were denied because others had submitted before them and that they cannot take any more for that sailing. If that email was true, it was clear that the opportunity was first come first served.

 

I still think it is stupid for any cruise line to have any unvaccinated passengers. Too many chances for litigation and other chances for covid outbreaks.

[BlerkOne]

11 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

 

 

I still think it is stupid for any cruise line to have any unvaccinated passengers. Too many chances for litigation and other chances for covid outbreaks.

^ this and with the extra hoops to jump through, cruising won't be as pleasant of an experience.

 

as for the exemptions, I am not aware of anyone being granted one.

[BoozinCroozin]

I am not either. I am only aware of denials based on emails posted.

[TNcruising02]

9 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I am not either. I am only aware of denials based on emails posted.

That makes me wonder if Carnival will do an all 12 and under or no 12 and under since they are trying to work with the CDC to allow children who aren't eligible for vaccinations.

[sailingships]

3 hours ago, deweytrader said:

In theory, but in my case I rebooked the 7/24/21 Breeze because my 7/24/21 Mardi Gras was cancelled.  I booked the Mardi Gras years ago but the Breeze only weeks ago.

I booked the MG  the first day, Jan 30, 2019. I had B2B Jan 9-23 2021 Those got cancelled. So did my Feb 6 and 2 in April. Now I have Aug 14 which I booked on Mar 6.  I'm sure there are lots of passengers who booked for this summer months ago., maybe even back on Jan 30, 2019. How would other passengers know that this was done fairly though, if the choice was based on date of booking ?

 

Since Carnival has not been forced to chose between eligible passengers before, I wonder how they will decide who gets to go and who doesnt. 

 

Meanwhile passengers are cancelling and lots of cabins are now available on that Aug 14 sailing. Are they cancelling because they have children or are they cancelling because they are bigoted against their fellow Americans ?

 

Frankly I am disgusted by all this prejudice from people who wouldnt dare post hateful comments  about certain other groups. Every American of any age has a right to the opportunity to enjoy the things offered in our country, work, shopping, entertainment, vacations, cruising, without discrimination and marginalizing.

 

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, sailingships said:

 

Meanwhile passengers are cancelling and lots of cabins are now available on that Aug 14 sailing. Are they cancelling because they have children or are they cancelling because they are bigoted against their fellow Americans ?

 

 

 

or antivaxxers?

[sailingships]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

or antivaxxers?

or anti-maskers

[cruisegirl06]

Have there been any updates on under 12s? It’s getting awfully close to the latest final payment extended date and to cruise time for many. Has anyone heard of confirmed/ approved exemptions for the under 12 set?

[dandeck]

I really don't see how any lines can have any  unvaccinated people on board.  The industry is on the brink.  The demand is there currently to pull out of this financial nose dive it seems.  However, outbreaks upon resuming would likely be a death nail.  Wife & I are regular cruisers, diamond.  Have multiple scheduled currently.  No way we are getting on any ship that doesn't require vaccinations.  Cruise ships are the last place anyone not fully vaccinated needs to be for everyone's sake.  Everyone is watching the restart closely.  A couple outbreaks, refusals to allow  docking, some serious illnesses... no one needs a crystal ball to understand the ripple effect that would have.  The lines simply cannot take that risk at this time.  To allow unvaccinated passengers or crew would be an act of industry suicide.  

Edited June 16, 2021 by dandeck
Spelling

[BoozinCroozin]

2 hours ago, dandeck said:

I really don't see how any lines can have any  unvaccinated people on board.  

I agree 100%. There would be no system fair if they have to decide who goes and who doesn't. Well, maybe except who booked first. Some people would complain about it, but nothing that would hold up in any type of complaint. I am sure their Legal team has warned them about any type of selection process outside of government controlled protected classes. 

 

Financially, it makes the most sense to have only vaccinated passengers. All it takes is one wrong person that would use their stimulus money to file a suit. Then the selection criteria would become public information that could potentially turn it to Class Action. It is so much easier to blame the CDC and go vaccinated only.

[Honolulu Blue]

5 hours ago, cruisegirl06 said:

Have there been any updates on under 12s? It’s getting awfully close to the latest final payment extended date and to cruise time for many. Has anyone heard of confirmed/ approved exemptions for the under 12 set?

 

I'm in the Vista (Texas) August sailing group, and I haven't heard anything new.  I'm sure this thread and others will blow up when something gets sent out.

 

3 hours ago, dandeck said:

I really don't see how any lines can have any  unvaccinated people on board.  The industry is on the brink.  The demand is there currently to pull out of this financial nose dive it seems.  However, outbreaks upon resuming would likely be a death nail.  Wife & I are regular cruisers, diamond.  Have multiple scheduled currently.  No way we are getting on any ship that doesn't require vaccinations.  Cruise ships are the last place anyone not fully vaccinated needs to be for everyone's sake.  Everyone is watching the restart closely.  A couple outbreaks, refusals to allow  docking, some serious illnesses... no one needs a crystal ball to understand the ripple effect that would have.  The lines simply cannot take that risk at this time.  To allow unvaccinated passengers or crew would be an act of industry suicide.  

 

Yeah, but here's the thing... Carnival and some other cruise lines are trying to tread a very fine line.  They want safe ships that are free from COVID-19, but they also want to serve families with children who can't get vaccinated.  Not to mention legislation in a few key states.  I continue to feel the way Norwegian plans to sail with NO exceptions for ANYONE is the best way through this mess for now, but it's obviously not the only one.  We'll see how it all plays out in the months to come.

[ontheweb]

35 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

I'm in the Vista (Texas) August sailing group, and I haven't heard anything new.  I'm sure this thread and others will blow up when something gets sent out.

 

 

Yeah, but here's the thing... Carnival and some other cruise lines are trying to tread a very fine line.  They want safe ships that are free from COVID-19, but they also want to serve families with children who can't get vaccinated.  Not to mention legislation in a few key states.  I continue to feel the way Norwegian plans to sail with NO exceptions for ANYONE is the best way through this mess for now, but it's obviously not the only one.  We'll see how it all plays out in the months to come.

And how it all plays out in the months to come will not only be interesting, but probably will also go a long way towards deciding  what the future of the cruise industry will be.

[lobster1313]

6 hours ago, cruisegirl06 said:

Have there been any updates on under 12s? It’s getting awfully close to the latest final payment extended date and to cruise time for many. Has anyone heard of confirmed/ approved exemptions for the under 12 set?

Carnival processes the exemptions after the final payment date.

[lancerTXST]

As July 29th Breeze passengers, my wife and I are awaiting exemption status for our 5yo.  We made decision to keep the sailing for just us should she get denied, we had until Monday to make that call.  We are prepared should she get denied, but based on the submission of the second form last Friday with specifics of who needs the exemption and why, I wouldn't expect hearing her status until "the week of June 21" or several days or a week+ later since it further stated "and by order of sailing date," which the Breeze has 3 July sailings before ours.

 

I found it odd that a Mardi Gras August passenger had already received a legit exemption denied message, based on the wording of that prompt from Friday's form.  My guess is two very separate approaches going on in FL and TX based on the situations going on in each.

 

I will certainly update here once we hear more from Carnival.  Vista has 4 sailings prior to ours, so I am sure there is someone on these boards from those 4 or the other 3 Breeze that would find out their status before us though?