Who else just got canceled on Majestic to Alaska?

[ceilidh1]

21 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

Boy, have they.
 

While I sympathize with the OP, we booked our August 8 cruise because, and only because it was being promoted as a fully vaccinated cruise. We knew there were no guarantees about the status of crew vaccinations, but guests needed to have their final shot at least two weeks prior to the start of their cruise. Then, after we booked, we heard SVP John Chernesky say in his Alaska video, available on YoutTube, that exceptions were going to be considered on a case by case basis. That is NOT a fully vaccinated cruise. 
 

I realize that we will be around unvaccinated people at the airport, on the plane, in ports, perhaps crew members, and our risk will never be zero. But this was a bait and switch of the highest order. 

Apparently, the 95% is considered fully vaccinated by the CDC. The first Celebrity sailing was a fully vaccinated sailing (95%) and had a handful of unvaccinated kids on the ship. I have a kid under 12 and desperately want to sail asap, but I do actually think that all sailings (at least for a little while) should be FULLY vaccinated - no exceptions at all. But that decision should be made upfront and should be transparent. 

 

I hope your cruise goes off smoothly!

[pms4104]

11 minutes ago, nocl said:

the ADA prevents one from asking why someone is considered to be disabled, why the have a placard, assist animal, etc.

 

The law does not prevent an employer or company from asking for proof of medical exemption. For example half of the states. explicitly require proof for medical exception from state mandated vaccination programs. There would not be able to do that if the ADA did not allow it.

So, Princess can ask for proof of one's medical issue exemption?

[nocl]

22 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

But they can't ask for proof, or even an explanation, of health issues that MAY exempt someone a Covid vaccine.

upon what law do you base that. Not the ADA because half of the states require proof of medical reasons for exemption from state mandated vaccination programs. Something they would not be able to do if the ADA or any other federal law did not allow it.

 

The cruise line can ask for medical proof, which would require the passenger to either provide or sign a medical release. If the passenger declined the cruise line could decline to let them board.

[nocl]

15 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

Interesting - thanks, I didn't know that. Next question, does that proof actually exist for an exemption from getting the vaccine? I'm not even sure who would be medically exempt/why? People who are immune compromised? Would those people even want to risk taking a cruise right now? So many questions...

a doctor would probably have to provide the medical information needed to satisfy the cruise lines medical staff. One can always call and say that they medically cannot be vaccinated and ask what proof they would need to supply.

[abbydancer2003]

49 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

And here's an interesting question - for the 5% unvaccinated that must follow different protocols, how do you know who those folks are once they are on the ship? Do they have to wear special t-shirts saying "I'm Not Vaccinated" or is it 100% relying on the honour system? At least with the under 12 set, it would be pretty easy to identify them!

First, to the OP, sorry this happened.  Times are chaotic right now, but sorry you got caught up in.

 

On the topic of what to do with the unvaccinated, Celebrity has made it very hard on them.  If you're not vaccinated you have to take a test to get on the ship at your own expense, the only place you can go maskless is your stateroom (I'm not quite clear on the dining rooms, one thing I read was that you even had to have your mask on then too).

 

[azbirdmom]

49 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

And here's an interesting question - for the 5% unvaccinated that must follow different protocols, how do you know who those folks are once they are on the ship? Do they have to wear special t-shirts saying "I'm Not Vaccinated" or is it 100% relying on the honour system? At least with the under 12 set, it would be pretty easy to identify them!

 

The Medallions make it simple.  They can simply record that someone is unvaccinated in the passenger's record and when that person wanders into an area they shouldn't be (assuming that Princess chooses to restrict unvaccinated people from certain activities and / or requires them to be masked), the status of that passenger would pop up on a staff member's iPad.  Not sure if they would go to this extent but if their agreement with the CDC limits activities of unvaccinated passengers, I would bet that they will do everything possible to adhere to the rules.

[pms4104]

19 minutes ago, nocl said:

upon what law do you base that. Not the ADA because half of the states require proof of medical reasons for exemption from state mandated vaccination programs. Something they would not be able to do if the ADA or any other federal law did not allow it.

 

The cruise line can ask for medical proof, which would require the passenger to either provide or sign a medical release. If the passenger declined the cruise line could decline to let them board.

So, people can't simply claim a medical exemption should they choose not to vaccinate?  

[nocl]

Just now, pms4104 said:

So, people can't simply claim a medical exemption should they choose not to vaccinate?  

They can claim but the cruise line can also require proof from a medical professional.

[azbirdmom]

3 minutes ago, nocl said:

They can claim but the cruise line can also require proof from a medical professional.

 

Which is what John Chernesky said at a recent webinar.  It sounded like details had to be sent to a person yet to be named in advance and they would approve or deny the request.  Of course that's the very same webinar where he first said that children would count as part of the 5% so I don't know how reliable that was.  Things just keep changing...

[Calif. Cruisers]

A child in our party was cancelled too.  We have three cabins for the family, with a 5-year old.  

We were told they were cancelling all unvaccinated children, here is the text from the message the travel agent got and forwarded to us:

 

Alaska 2021 policy change on unvaccinated child guests

As we prepare to return to service, we’re committed to delivering an experience with the health, safety and well-being of our guests and crew as our top priority. However, due to the complexities of requirements by U.S. Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (US CDC), it will not be possible to provide the same exceptional experience for all guests, and as a result, we’ve made the decision to not sail with unvaccinated children on Alaska cruises for Majestic Princess® when she begins sailing July 25, 2021. We understand that this affects the vacation plans of some of your clients and we share in their disappointment. We appreciate your understanding that this change in policy was made with the careful consideration of the well-being and enjoyment of all guests. We sincerely apologize for having to impact your clients’ vacation plans and would like to inform you of the options available to your clients, listed below:

1) Move to a 2022 booking: Your client can elect to move their existing booking to any 2022 Alaska voyage that sails from Seattle with the added benefit of not incurring any additional increase to the fare already paid. In addition, as a gesture of appreciation for your client’s understanding, we are also including a free White Pass Scenic Railway shore excursion in Skagway for everyone in their immediate travel group (valued at $139.95 for adults; $89.95 for children). A shore excursion promo code must be added to the booking in order to receive the offer. Option #1 is available to guests in the same family group that rebook together. Your client will need to call us at XXX-XXX-XXXX by June 30, 2021 to let us know if they would like to move to a 2022 voyage or elect for the options below. You, as their travel advisor, can also handle this for them by calling XXX-XXX-XXXX, ext. XXXXX, Mon.-Fri., 8am-5pm PT. If we have not heard from your client by the June 30 deadline, the booking will be automatically cancelled and the FCC option defined below will be applied.

2) Future Cruise Credit (FCC): Guests can choose to accept an FCC equivalent to 100% of the cruise fare paid plus an additional non-refundable bonus FCC equal to 10% of the cruise fare paid (minimum $25 USD*). FCCs can be used on any cruises booked by and sailing by December 31, 2022. The shore excursion offer does not apply to this option. FCCs can be used toward a deposit on a future booking, in Alaska or another destination. However, they cannot be applied toward air or hotel. Please note that FCCs in lieu of refund (limited to up to 100% of cruise fare) are refundable, but bonus FCCs are not. If your client changes their mind and later requests a refund, the initial FCC will be refunded and the Bonus FCC will be cancelled. (FCCs will continue to be commissionable.)

3) Refund: Guests can choose to receive a refund of monies paid toward the booking to the original form of payment. The shore excursion offer does not apply to this option.

Providing an exceptional vacation for families remains a priority for us and we truly hope your client takes advantage of the rebook or FCC offers, so that our shipboard team can shine for them at a later date and help create memories of a lifetime.

[2 cruises a year]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

a doctor would probably have to provide the medical information needed to satisfy the cruise lines medical staff. One can always call and say that they medically cannot be vaccinated and ask what proof they would need to supply.

Hmmm, I wonder about getting travel insurance under these conditions.

[nocl]

58 minutes ago, Calif. Cruisers said:

A child in our party was cancelled too.  We have three cabins for the family, with a 5-year old.  

We were told they were cancelling all unvaccinated children, here is the text from the message the travel agent got and forwarded to us:

 

Alaska 2021 policy change on unvaccinated child guests

As we prepare to return to service, we’re committed to delivering an experience with the health, safety and well-being of our guests and crew as our top priority. However, due to the complexities of requirements by U.S. Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (US CDC), it will not be possible to provide the same exceptional experience for all guests, and as a result, we’ve made the decision to not sail with unvaccinated children on Alaska cruises for Majestic Princess® when she begins sailing July 25, 2021. We understand that this affects the vacation plans of some of your clients and we share in their disappointment. We appreciate your understanding that this change in policy was made with the careful consideration of the well-being and enjoyment of all guests. We sincerely apologize for having to impact your clients’ vacation plans and would like to inform you of the options available to your clients, listed below:

1) Move to a 2022 booking: Your client can elect to move their existing booking to any 2022 Alaska voyage that sails from Seattle with the added benefit of not incurring any additional increase to the fare already paid. In addition, as a gesture of appreciation for your client’s understanding, we are also including a free White Pass Scenic Railway shore excursion in Skagway for everyone in their immediate travel group (valued at $139.95 for adults; $89.95 for children). A shore excursion promo code must be added to the booking in order to receive the offer. Option #1 is available to guests in the same family group that rebook together. Your client will need to call us at XXX-XXX-XXXX by June 30, 2021 to let us know if they would like to move to a 2022 voyage or elect for the options below. You, as their travel advisor, can also handle this for them by calling XXX-XXX-XXXX, ext. XXXXX, Mon.-Fri., 8am-5pm PT. If we have not heard from your client by the June 30 deadline, the booking will be automatically cancelled and the FCC option defined below will be applied.

2) Future Cruise Credit (FCC): Guests can choose to accept an FCC equivalent to 100% of the cruise fare paid plus an additional non-refundable bonus FCC equal to 10% of the cruise fare paid (minimum $25 USD*). FCCs can be used on any cruises booked by and sailing by December 31, 2022. The shore excursion offer does not apply to this option. FCCs can be used toward a deposit on a future booking, in Alaska or another destination. However, they cannot be applied toward air or hotel. Please note that FCCs in lieu of refund (limited to up to 100% of cruise fare) are refundable, but bonus FCCs are not. If your client changes their mind and later requests a refund, the initial FCC will be refunded and the Bonus FCC will be cancelled. (FCCs will continue to be commissionable.)

3) Refund: Guests can choose to receive a refund of monies paid toward the booking to the original form of payment. The shore excursion offer does not apply to this option.

Providing an exceptional vacation for families remains a priority for us and we truly hope your client takes advantage of the rebook or FCC offers, so that our shipboard team can shine for them at a later date and help create memories of a lifetime.

When you think about it, it makes sense. The CDC allows the cruise lines the ability to relax a lot of rules on testing, masks, distancing, etc. So that would put the children under 12 in one set of restrictions, their vaccinated parents in another.  Since the children would be under 12 and as such need supervision it would almost certainly require the more restrictive rules to also be applied to the parents. 

 

Certainly would be difficult to provide a quality experience to that family under those conditions.

[Calif. Cruisers]

The reality is that parents of under 12's have been living under different restrictions than their children from the moment the parents have completed their vaccinations and until children under 12 are vaccinated.  This applies whether on land or at sea.  We fully expected that children either would be tested before boarding or would need to be masked when in public areas.  This may still be the case in many areas of our lives for the months ahead.  We happen to live in the most vaccinated county in the country, and case rates are extremely low.  The likelihood that we would bring Covid onboard is so unlikely that it is almost silly in comparison to other areas of the country where more people are unvaccinated than vaccinated.  As a group of first responders and people who have been working in front-line jobs this past year, we finally had a family vacation planned and something to look forward to- and now that has been taken away.  Of course we are disappointed and struggling with this news. They should have made this decision before accepting the children and the final payment.

Their offer doesn't take into consideration any other expenses incurred by passengers- airfare, insurance, or vacation time taken.  Since everyone in the family was going, and someone has to stay home with the child- we have limited options.  We can't all rebook for next summer, because it may not end up working for someone in the group.  We had to coordinate all of our schedules to make this work.  In option 1, we are being asked to tie up our funds for a full year for a train trip (and yes, guaranteed pricing.)    

What if someone from the group still wants to go and the others don't?  What happens if the person in the cabin with the child wants to still go, do they have to now pay double fare for the cabin?  It was supposed to be a family trip and now we are struggling to figure out who might stay home with the child so the others who badly need a vacation can go.  Princess could have saved a lot of trouble by not accepting kids from the get-go if they weren't sure they could manage it.  Schools have managed to educate kids around here for most of the year masked.  I think the cruise line could have handled a small group of kids.  I am not sure why the cruise line was advertising cruises as 'fully vaccinated' to some people, and available for children (who are clearly not vaccinated) to others.  This was a failure on behalf of Princess.  I was clearly hunting for a cruise that would take children, and Princess was advertising they would take them if they were under the 95% threshold.  

[nocl]

9 minutes ago, Calif. Cruisers said:

The reality is that parents of under 12's have been living under different restrictions than their children from the moment the parents have completed their vaccinations and until children under 12 are vaccinated.  This applies whether on land or at sea.  We fully expected that children either would be tested before boarding or would need to be masked when in public areas.  This may still be the case in many areas of our lives for the months ahead.  We happen to live in the most vaccinated county in the country, and case rates are extremely low.  The likelihood that we would bring Covid onboard is so unlikely that it is almost silly in comparison to other areas of the country where more people are unvaccinated than vaccinated.  As a group of first responders and people who have been working in front-line jobs this past year, we finally had a family vacation planned and something to look forward to- and now that has been taken away.  Of course we are disappointed and struggling with this news. They should have made this decision before accepting the children and the final payment.

Their offer doesn't take into consideration any other expenses incurred by passengers- airfare, insurance, or vacation time taken.  Since everyone in the family was going, and someone has to stay home with the child- we have limited options.  We can't all rebook for next summer, because it may not end up working for someone in the group.  We had to coordinate all of our schedules to make this work.  In option 1, we are being asked to tie up our funds for a full year for a train trip (and yes, guaranteed pricing.)    

What if someone from the group still wants to go and the others don't?  What happens if the person in the cabin with the child wants to still go, do they have to now pay double fare for the cabin?  It was supposed to be a family trip and now we are struggling to figure out who might stay home with the child so the others who badly need a vacation can go.  Princess could have saved a lot of trouble by not accepting kids from the get-go if they weren't sure they could manage it.  Schools have managed to educate kids around here for most of the year masked.  I think the cruise line could have handled a small group of kids.  I am not sure why the cruise line was advertising cruises as 'fully vaccinated' to some people, and available for children (who are clearly not vaccinated) to others.  This was a failure on behalf of Princess.  I was clearly hunting for a cruise that would take children, and Princess was advertising they would take them if they were under the 95% threshold.  

The difference is that the cruise lines are under detailed rules from the CDC where the rules must be enforced or the conditional sales certificate can be revoked. In the situations on land the rules in most places are at discretion of the parents. Not on board ship. Have seen some parents ho unmasked while there children are masked, but have seen more where either the whole family goes masked or unmasked. Depending upon parents choices.

 

They apparently initially tried to go the some children route, but for one reason or another, such as either issues in their protocol approval from the CDC, or in the mechanics of keeping the number of unvaccinated under 5%  have determined it to be impractical.

 

Since the other Alaska cruises are also operating under the 95% rule it will be interesting to see if any of the other lines will allow unvaccinated children on the Alaska cruises this year.

[nocl]

while this is not Princess it is a post from John Heald talking about CCLs decision under the 95% protocol.

 

Good Saturday morning to you all from Hockley, Essex.

So here we are on this glorious Saturday and I have to rub my eyes in disbelief when I say we will be cruising again in 21 days time when Carnival Vista departs from Galveston.

Late last night we sent those guests booked on Carnival Horizon's July sailings the conformation that their cruises would be departing and so I will be seeing some of you on July 4th. These July cruises on Carnival Horizon are for 95% vaccinated guests.

Again I must give those who cannot cruise because they have not had the vaccine, cannot take the vaccine or have children who are too young to have it that you are unable to have the fun you deserve just yet.

These were difficult choices to make for the beards but under the current CDC regulations it would have meant that non vaccinated guests and their children would have had to wear a mask everywhere, indoors and outdoors while in the sun and really that is not the cruise vacation I know you would enjoy.

But as our incomparable President Christine said in her letter " she does remain optimistic that as we continue to talk to the CDC cruising from the United Sates will become more flexible."

What is happening now will not be forever.

So on July 4th Carnival Horizon will be sailing on a 6 day cruise to Half Moon Cay, Amber Cove and Bimini. And among those on board will be me, holding my Eye Phone in the air, waddling down Promenade Deck sharing live videos showing you that the FUN is back.

Cheers and have a brilliant day

[abbydancer2003]

34 minutes ago, Calif. Cruisers said:

 We happen to live in the most vaccinated county in the country, and case rates are extremely low. 

Just curious, which county?

[Calif. Cruisers]

Marin- I see you are in the Bay Area too

 

[abbydancer2003]

47 minutes ago, Calif. Cruisers said:

Marin- I see you are in the Bay Area too

 

Thanks.  I'm in Santa Clara - I think we have pretty good numbers too.

[caribill]

5 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

Then, after we booked, we heard SVP John Chernesky say in his Alaska video, available on YoutTube, that exceptions were going to be considered on a case by case basis. That is NOT a fully vaccinated cruise. 

 

 

 

The full statement was that kids under 12 would be allowed automatically up to the 5% limit and if the limit had been reached, then if someone tried to book another child in that age range, it would be rejected in the booking process. Then, as you point out, he said the age 12+ health/religious exemptions would be considered on a case by case basis.

 

I assume that since children under age 12 will no longer be allowed, neither will age 12+ people who wanted an exemption.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

while this is not Princess it is a post from John Heald talking about CCLs decision under the 95% protocol.

 

 

Late last night we sent those guests booked on Carnival Horizon's July sailings the confirmation that their cruises would be departing and so I will be seeing some of you on July 4th. These July cruises on Carnival Horizon are for 95% vaccinated guests.

 

Again I must give those who cannot cruise because they have not had the vaccine, cannot take the vaccine or have children who are too young to have it that you are unable to have the fun you deserve just yet.

 

 

Just as confusing as Princess statements.

 

First he says 95% vaccinated, then he says noone without the vaccine.

[caribill]

5 hours ago, pms4104 said:

But they can't ask for proof, or even an explanation, of health issues that MAY exempt someone a Covid vaccine.

 

4 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

 Next question, does that proof actually exist for an exemption from getting the vaccine? I'm not even sure who would be medically exempt/why? People who are immune compromised? Would those people even want to risk taking a cruise right now? So many questions...

 

4 hours ago, nocl said:

a doctor would probably have to provide the medical information needed to satisfy the cruise lines medical staff. One can always call and say that they medically cannot be vaccinated and ask what proof they would need to supply.

 

It really does not matter.

 

People can claim a religious objection as the reason to not have had the vaccine.

 

No proof of religious beliefs could be required.

[nocl]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

 

 

It really does not matter.

 

People can claim a religious objection as the reason to not have had the vaccine.

 

No proof of religious beliefs could be required.

Actually many states require proof before allowing exemption from vaccine programs due to religious reasons. Such proof would require documentation of membership in a recognized religion whose principles do not allow vaccination.

 

So the cruise lines would be on good legal ground if they were to require such proof.

[nocl]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Just as confusing as Princess statements.

 

First he says 95% vaccinated, then he says noone without the vaccine.

95% is the protocol defined by the CDC that allows them to sail without test cruises.. The vaccination required is how they plan to meet the protocol because of the rules required for unvaccinated individuals under the protocol.

[azbirdmom]

12 hours ago, Calif. Cruisers said:

However, due to the complexities of requirements by U.S. Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (US CDC), it will not be possible to provide the same exceptional experience for all guests, and as a result, we’ve made the decision to not sail with unvaccinated children on Alaska cruises for Majestic Princess® when she begins sailing July 25, 2021.

 

The wording of the notice from Princess to TAs conflicts with what addie19 was told when she asked about her children getting the vaccines through a clinical trial.  This would suggest that if the children were in a clinical trial for an approved vaccine and received the actual vaccine and not the placebo, they could sail regardless of age.  Yet she was told NO children under 12, period.  I wish their communications were consistent and clear.

 

8 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Just as confusing as Princess statements.

 

First he says 95% vaccinated, then he says noone without the vaccine.

 

Absolutely agree.  I guess we will need to wait for the final rules to see what's really happening.

[ceilidh1]

Why wouldn't they just make the policy "NO unvaccinated guests. No exceptions" rather than singling out children? I'm sure there is a reason, I just don't know what it is?