Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[caniuseit]

1 minute ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

The Florida law about vaccination status was not about cruising, it was a reaction to the talks about requiring vaccine passports. Florida is fighting for freedoms that some would like to erode with overreaching demands and political correctness agendas.

 

You keep telling yourself that

 

tell me, did Florida get rid of the vaccine requirement to attend public school?

if not, why do you think that is?  Do you think they should?

 

Seems to me that “vaccine freedom” only applies to the politically charged COVID vaccine.

 

pure political posturing

[TNcruising02]

What common sense says is that if the CDC had current scientific data to back up their rigid restrictions, they would have presented it.  That's common sense.  Everyone screams the science this, the science that and when the CDC needs to back up their claims with science, all we get is early 2020 data and crickets.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

It was not part of the lawsuit.  I think it is over reach to demand health information in order to do something.  In this particular case, I would be willing to share it in order to cruise.  As I previously had mentioned, it is my view,  based upon both sides stating as much, that this will not be an issue.

A funny thing happened on the way to the governor's website... Captain Ron thinks so. Surely they wouldn't mislead anyone.

 

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/18/governor-desantis-wins-major-victory-to-protect-floridas-cruise-industry/?fbclid=IwAR1zCtmtK1G9wDMZFYVjsD6RgvYrYC7fC9aHJ6jdK3fCErzmLmTUn9llur8

 

Included in the ruling, the Middle District Court of Florida found that:

• Neither the CDC, nor any federal agency, can require a vaccine passport; and

[caniuseit]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

It was not part of the lawsuit.

I never said it was. But in your opinion, is that not an “overreach”?

 

how about vaccines to attend school?

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

A funny thing happened on the way to the governor's website... Captain Ron thinks so. Surely they wouldn't mislead anyone.

 

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/18/governor-desantis-wins-major-victory-to-protect-floridas-cruise-industry/?fbclid=IwAR1zCtmtK1G9wDMZFYVjsD6RgvYrYC7fC9aHJ6jdK3fCErzmLmTUn9llur8

 

Included in the ruling, the Middle District Court of Florida found that:

• Neither the CDC, nor any federal agency, can require a vaccine passport; and

So it is a non issue, good, one less thing to worry about.

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, caniuseit said:

I never said it was. But in your opinion, is that not an “overreach”?

 

how about vaccines to attend school?

politics....non related.

 

[skridge]

6 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

What common sense says is that if the CDC had current scientific data to back up their rigid restrictions, they would have presented it.  That's common sense.  Everyone screams the science this, the science that and when the CDC needs to back up their claims with science, all we get is early 2020 data and crickets.

The fact that within a couple of months the vaccine came out the number of people in ICU with COVID at the hospital my wife works in went from near a hundred to just one last week to me says that the vaccine is working and needs to be required in the near future to be allowed to cruise.  

[MrMarc]

16 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

A funny thing happened on the way to the governor's website... Captain Ron thinks so. Surely they wouldn't mislead anyone.

 

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/18/governor-desantis-wins-major-victory-to-protect-floridas-cruise-industry/?fbclid=IwAR1zCtmtK1G9wDMZFYVjsD6RgvYrYC7fC9aHJ6jdK3fCErzmLmTUn9llur8

 

Included in the ruling, the Middle District Court of Florida found that:

• Neither the CDC, nor any federal agency, can require a vaccine passport; and

I would like to see where they think that.  Vaccine passports are only mentioned one time in a footnote regarding Florida contributing to it's damages by passing that law.

[Babr]

16 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

The Florida law about vaccination status was not about cruising, it was a reaction to the talks about requiring vaccine passports. Florida is fighting for freedoms that some would like to erode with overreaching demands and political correctness agendas.

 

This is the part I’ve never understood. Truly.

 

What freedom? If you mean the freedom of unvaccinated to have unlimited access, when did that usurp the freedom of a business to determine its own policies or the freedom of other individuals to engage in activities without undue concern for their health.

 

By enacting a law that interferes with business, aren’t they doing the very thing they are decrying? Isn’t that contrary to their pro-business philosophy? How does preventing cruise lines from requiring vaccines help them restart?

[AtSeaWithChris]

9 minutes ago, skridge said:

The fact that within a couple of months the vaccine came out the number of people in ICU with COVID at the hospital my wife works in went from near a hundred to just one last week to me says that the vaccine is working and needs to be required in the near future to be allowed to cruise.  

There are many more needed data points that that. You can't prove cause and effect based on ICU beds. I am vaccinated but did so willingly for my reasons. This is an experimental vaccine with experimental technology never before used on such a large population. It is not an approved vaccine but only approved for emergency usage and it is not a vaccine in the true sense of the word. It is experimental gene therapy.

All this said, it is over a virus that is not that bad but for now this vaccine is unproven

[caniuseit]

16 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

politics....non related.

 

Politics, yes.  Related? ABSOLUTELY 

 

the ability to require a vaccine to cruise is absolutely related to this topic. 

[AtSeaWithChris]

5 minutes ago, Babr said:

This is the part I’ve never understood. Truly.

 

What freedom? If you mean the freedom of unvaccinated to have unlimited access, when did that usurp the freedom of a business to determine its own policies or the freedom of other individuals to engage in activities without undue concern for their health.

 

By enacting a law that interferes with business, aren’t they doing the very thing they are decrying? Isn’t that contrary to their pro-business philosophy? How does preventing cruise lines from requiring vaccines help them restart?

This assumes that you trust the vaccine to be proven and safe. In 10 to 20 years if/when the lawsuits start possibly we will know. You can't force a vaccine on people that isn't reliably safe. And then you add politics to it. No way can that stand. Freedom is freedom to use common sense, whatever that means to you.

[Bgwest]

I know there is a way to block individual posters. I did that yesterday with one particular nuisance and found that I save myself a third and more of the time it normally takes to read half a dozen pages. 
 

My question is this, is it possible to block posts which this nuisance drones on with that legitimate posters respond to?

 

Seems there’s one on every board. 🙄

[caniuseit]

7 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

You can't force a vaccine on people that isn't reliably safe

What we are talking about here is a cruise. Cruising is not a right. 
 

no one is forcing anything on anyone

[firefly333]

3 minutes ago, Bgwest said:

I know there is a way to block individual posters. I did that yesterday with one particular nuisance and found that I save myself a third and more of the time it normally takes to read half a dozen pages. 
 

My question is this, is it possible to block posts which this nuisance drones on with that legitimate posters respond to?

 

Seems there’s one on every board. 🙄

Nope, my ignore list is up to 6 from this board and rcl. I see their posts when someone else tries to argue with them.  Wish there was. ..but adding to ignore list at least keeps me from arguing with them. 

[Tippyton]

15 minutes ago, Babr said:

This is the part I’ve never understood. Truly.

 

What freedom? If you mean the freedom of unvaccinated to have unlimited access, when did that usurp the freedom of a business to determine its own policies or the freedom of other individuals to engage in activities without undue concern for their health.

 

By enacting a law that interferes with business, aren’t they doing the very thing they are decrying? Isn’t that contrary to their pro-business philosophy? How does preventing cruise lines from requiring vaccines help them restart?

Ron was playing major league game theory here and won, at least initially.  A few of us picked up on what the strategy was, but most missed it as it appeared counter-intuitive.  FL essentially trapped the CDC in their own ridiculousness.

[Babr]

Just now, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

This assumes that you trust the vaccine to be proven and safe. In 10 to 20 years if/when the lawsuits start possibly we will know. You can't force a vaccine on people that isn't reliably safe. And then you add politics to it. No way can that stand. Freedom is freedom to use common sense, whatever that means to you.

Nobody is forcing a vaccine on anyone, but Florida’s law is forcing everyone else to interact with people who may spread the virus until there are enough people with vaccinations or natural immunity to protect everyone. It is forcing businesses to accommodate people that may be more costly to serve in terms of space or supplies, and it is taking away their right to determine how they conduct their own operations. Aside from essential services, why should the world turn on those who chose not to be vaccinated?

[AtSeaWithChris]

Just now, Babr said:

Nobody is forcing a vaccine on anyone, but Florida’s law is forcing everyone else to interact with people who may spread the virus until there are enough people with vaccinations or natural immunity to protect everyone. It is forcing businesses to accommodate people that may be more costly to serve in terms of space or supplies, and it is taking away their right to determine how they conduct their own operations. Aside from essential services, why should the world turn on those who chose not to be vaccinated?

We think totally different on this. Florida is not forcing anyone or any thing.

[skridge]

21 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

There are many more needed data points that that. You can't prove cause and effect based on ICU beds. I am vaccinated but did so willingly for my reasons. This is an experimental vaccine with experimental technology never before used on such a large population. It is not an approved vaccine but only approved for emergency usage and it is not a vaccine in the true sense of the word. It is experimental gene therapy.

All this said, it is over a virus that is not that bad but for now this vaccine is unproven

First Vaccine in United States was administered on December 14th.  If you look at the Covid death rate from February 13th to June 19th it has spiraled down and remained low.  Call it what you want, the experiment is working very well.  The virus that is "not that bad" has killed 601,720 in the United States.

[caniuseit]

10 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

We think totally different on this. Florida is not forcing anyone or any thing.

Uh, not exactly true. Isn’t Florida forcing the cruise lines to serve the unvaccinated?

[BlerkOne]

43 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

I would like to see where they think that.  Vaccine passports are only mentioned one time in a footnote regarding Florida contributing to it's damages by passing that law.

Someone should tell the judge.

[MrMarc]

31 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

This assumes that you trust the vaccine to be proven and safe. In 10 to 20 years if/when the lawsuits start possibly we will know. You can't force a vaccine on people that isn't reliably safe. And then you add politics to it. No way can that stand. Freedom is freedom to use common sense, whatever that means to you.

So youvare unwilling to take any drug that has not been tested for 20 years?  But in any event no one is forcing you to get.  You have that choice.  And like all choices, there are consequences.

[sm3ds]

22 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Nope, my ignore list is up to 6 from this board and rcl. I see their posts when someone else tries to argue with them.  Wish there was. ..but adding to ignore list at least keeps me from arguing with them. 

There are forums where you don't see what the blocked person wrote nor can you see it when someone quotes them. If they updated this forum to include a feature like that this forum might be a friendlier place.  

[firefly333]

5 minutes ago, caniuseit said:

Uh, not exactly true. Isn’t Florida forcing the cruise lines to serve the unvaccinated?

Carnival is doing vaccinated out of florida, so is ncl and celebrity. You can volunteer to show it, just not be forced.

[BlerkOne]

35 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

This assumes that you trust the vaccine to be proven and safe. In 10 to 20 years if/when the lawsuits start possibly we will know. You can't force a vaccine on people that isn't reliably safe. And then you add politics to it. No way can that stand. Freedom is freedom to use common sense, whatever that means to you.

The science and data say the vaccine is safer than the disease.