Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[AtSeaWithChris]

2 minutes ago, BroadwayGirl said:

This is what I’ve been thinking about today. So cruise lines must present their health manifest and illness records to clear when returning back to the US to get permission to dock and let us all off. I’m wondering if there is an outbreak or even covid cases on board returning to Florida is DeSantis turning the ship away or allowing them to dock and let passengers off?  Does he even have authority over that as the decision referenced the coast guard or border patrol I think.   I know part of the CSO were medical agreements in each port...was that unreasonable? 
Weren’t cruise ships denied porting in Florida right before the shutdown? 

Thats a fair question. I hope that doesn't happen and I hope that we have learned how to deal with it.

[caniuseit]

11 minutes ago, BroadwayGirl said:

This is what I’ve been thinking about today. So cruise lines must present their health manifest and illness records to clear when returning back to the US to get permission to dock and let us all off. I’m wondering if there is an outbreak or even covid cases on board returning to Florida is DeSantis turning the ship away or allowing them to dock and let passengers off?  Does he even have authority over that as the decision referenced the coast guard or border patrol I think.   I know part of the CSO were medical agreements in each port...was that unreasonable? 
Weren’t cruise ships denied porting in Florida right before the shutdown? 

This is a big issue. One that the cruise lines should make Guv Ron answer publicly 

 

The cruise line shouldn’t be on the hook if they are prevented from doing their desired risk mitigation 

 

 

[cscurlock]

19 minutes ago, BroadwayGirl said:

This is what I’ve been thinking about today. So cruise lines must present their health manifest and illness records to clear when returning back to the US to get permission to dock and let us all off. I’m wondering if there is an outbreak or even covid cases on board returning to Florida is DeSantis turning the ship away or allowing them to dock and let passengers off?  Does he even have authority over that as the decision referenced the coast guard or border patrol I think.   I know part of the CSO were medical agreements in each port...was that unreasonable? 
Weren’t cruise ships denied porting in Florida right before the shutdown? 

If there is a threat to the state the state can take action just like last year.  But I think the more likely scenario would be the CDC would not allow the ship to dock until all the passengers and crew are tested.

[TNcruising02]

The cruise lines contracted with hotels in case a person shows up for a cruise and tests positive and can't fly home. That person can go to the contracted hotel to quarantine.  Therefore, it seems logical that when the cruise ship returns to the home port with positive cases that have been quarantined on the ship, those cases will go to the hotel before flying home or drive home.  Same as when people fly to an all inclusive and have to take a covid test to return home.   They simply quarantine in a specified location until they can fly home.

 

This is not March 2020 where people were afraid of covid crossing the ocean.  People quarantine and then move on with their lives.  Ships that cruise out of ports in other states will no doubt return with some positive cases too.  They will have a hotel for these people to go to.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[cscurlock]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

The cruise lines contracted with hotels in case a person shows up for a cruise and tests positive and can't fly home. That person can go to the contracted hotel to quarantine.  Therefore, it seems logical that when the cruise ship returns to the home port with positive cases that have been quarantined on the ship, those cases will go to the hotel before flying home or drive home.  Same as when people fly to an all inclusive and have to take a covid test to return home.   They simply quarantine in a specified location until they can fly home.

 

This is not March 2020 where people were afraid of covid crossing the ocean.  People quarantine and then move on with their lives.  Ships that cruise out of ports in other states will no doubt return with some positive cases too.  They will have a hotel for these people to go to.

While technically that may be true now.  When the CSO goes away then I think they won't need to do this since the CSO made the requirement I believe.  

[BroadwayGirl]

7 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

If there is a threat to the state the state can take action just like last year.  But I think the more likely scenario would be the CDC would not allow the ship to dock until all the passengers and crew are tested.

And that’s where the decision was interesting to me.....I interpreted part of the judges decision as saying the CDC didn’t have that authority. That it was with coast guard or border patrol. 
 

I know It’s not March 2020 and we would hopefully do things differently now with returning cases, but would cruise lines have made those hotel, hospital and port medical agreements without the CSO?  Don’t know of well ever answer that. 

[cruisegus]

34 minutes ago, BroadwayGirl said:

I know part of the CSO were medical agreements in each port...was that unreasonable? 
Weren’t cruise ships denied porting in Florida right before the shutdown? 

the port medical agreement was certainly one part the CSO got correct, absolutely need to sail safely

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

While technically that may be true now.  When the CSO goes away then I think they won't need to do this since the CSO made the requirement I believe.  

I think every cruise line that has to test the passengers before boarding or test them before returning to the US will have contracted hotels and hospitals in place for as long as they are required to test.  If mandatory testing goes away completely, then I think they still might have those places contracted. At anytime on a cruise, a passenger could seek medical assistance for covid symptoms and test positive.  They will still need a plan in place.

[vilacr]

https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-protocols-mardi-gras-july-august/

[musbeus]

Here is an example that when Covid is on a ship, no one wants it to dock. https://apple.news/AkKctFZG5SbuX0yFxeL2gGQ

[AtSeaWithChris]

7 minutes ago, musbeus said:

Here is an example that when Covid is on a ship, no one wants it to dock. https://apple.news/AkKctFZG5SbuX0yFxeL2gGQ

No one is saying that the Agreements need to be canceled 

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

Carnival should just follow suit with Royal and segregate and make the un-vaxed pay more ext.  Pay for the testing if you don't want to volunteer your vaccine status, $160 a test and one at embarkation one mid cruise and one at debarkation. And then those Un-vaxed or unwilling to volunteer their vaccine status have to wear masks everywhere and get a special Sail and Sign card noting their status onboard. Discourage those from wanting to sail until we can get better protocols and get to sailing. 

[TNcruising02]

Carnival is only allowing a small number of unvaccinated cruisers.  They have to wear masks, social distance, have a pre covid test and another covid test at the end of the cruise.  Vaccinated people won't have to wear masks on the ship and can go on independent tours.

 

All of this worry about unvaccinated people on Carnival causing cruising to end and the industry to be shut down is a huge waste of energy.  Things will be fine. 

[embarkation75]

10 minutes ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

Carnival should just follow suit with Royal and segregate and make the un-vaxed pay more ext.  Pay for the testing if you don't want to volunteer your vaccine status, $160 a test and one at embarkation one mid cruise and one at debarkation. And then those Un-vaxed or unwilling to volunteer their vaccine status have to wear masks everywhere and get a special Sail and Sign card noting their status onboard. Discourage those from wanting to sail until we can get better protocols and get to sailing. 

If I had to wager money on future protocols, this is ultimately where Carnival will be in a couple months. It is going to be a modern day leper colony on these ships with unvaccinated walking around with whatever "mark" while segregated dining, entertainment, shore excursions exist. What a weird time to return to cruising. Suspect various destination ports won't even allow ships to dock unless it's a 100% vaccinated cruise. Glad I'm not cruising until March of 2022 as this restart is looking more and more like a complete $61t show.

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

The CDC is making the vaccine status the issue. The Florida law is about needing proof for a good or a service for their citizens.

So it would not be applicable to non-residents of Florida?

[BoozinCroozin]

9 hours ago, sc4125 said:

I have an August cruise booked on the Mardi Gras.  I am vaccinated, but really don't want to go if it means I have to wear a mask every minute and deal with socially distancing if CCL isn't allowed to ask who is and who isn't vaccinated.  At this point, my emails said that Carnival is going to require 95% vaccinated but it was before the judge's decision.  

 

So, will I be allowed to get a full refund if they change the rules?  I have no interest in cruising if it means wearing a mask and socially distancing, or getting stuck in my cabin because the unvaxed test positive.

You do realize being vaccinated that you can test positive as well? 

 

The Judge's ruling is far more in favor of going back to normal cruising than they were before the ruling. Whatever was going to happen on the cruise prior to Friday night is what it will be after as well. There will probably even be less restrictions. Carnival's biggest issue was the 5% unvaxxed. It is only my opinion, but I don't think CCL will change its current path for July and August except allowing more children under 12 onboard. I think 12 and older will still need to be vaccinated. All passengers who do not voluntarily provide the information agree to accept the cost of testing at least 2x onboard (mid cruise and debarkation). Along with that, provide negative test 72 hours before embarkation. 

[BoozinCroozin]

3 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

Carnival should just follow suit with Royal and segregate and make the un-vaxed pay more ext.  Pay for the testing if you don't want to volunteer your vaccine status, $160 a test and one at embarkation one mid cruise and one at debarkation. And then those Un-vaxed or unwilling to volunteer their vaccine status have to wear masks everywhere and get a special Sail and Sign card noting their status onboard. Discourage those from wanting to sail until we can get better protocols and get to sailing. 

I agree as well. Require those not volunteering vaccine information to agree to 3 tests at $150 per: One on embarkation day, one mid cruise, and one debarkation day. Because results can take time, the debarkation test is done between midnight and 2AM. If results are back for debarkation, they have to quarantine until the results are available. Each unvaxxed passenger needs to remain in their cabin until results are confirmed. Its not a difficult task. When there is significant expenses and restrictions in place to those not volunteering the information, then they will choose not to go.

 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, BroadwayGirl said:

And that’s where the decision was interesting to me.....I interpreted part of the judges decision as saying the CDC didn’t have that authority. That it was with coast guard or border patrol. 

Admittedly, I have only skimmed part of the ruling, so didn't see this.  However, the judge is partly correct.  The USCG issues the clearance for a ship to enter or operate in US waters, based on a set of criteria like having submitted manifests and declarations to CBP, and receiving "free pratique" from the CDC clearing the ship for health and sanitation reasons.  The USCG is the ultimate authority for ships operating in US waters, but as is common, and logical, they rely on other agencies to provide expertise in areas where the USCG does not have expertise.  The USCG is not a public health or epidemiology agency, so they rely on input from the CDC (as the CDC is mandated to do) to give the USCG the best advice on whether a ship is healthy or not.  Just as the USCG relies on CBP and DEA for assistance in contraband issues.  Case in point was the drug seizure in Port Everglades this week.  A foreign ship docked in a US port is under USCG jurisdiction, but they deferred to DEA to make the search and seizure.  And it is the DEA's regulations on illegal drugs that the USCG operates under when they themselves make a seizure, not a USCG regulation, even though the USCG has overall jurisdiction.  I find the judge's ruling flawed and contradictory over what the CDC can and can't do.

[bucfan2]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

So it would not be applicable to non-residents of Florida?

Basic critical thinking dude….play the game in whatever state that has the rules you’re ok to follow.  It’s really not a difficult concept. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by bucfan2

[FSHLOT]

12 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

Basic critical thinking dude….play the game in whatever state that has the rules you’re ok to follow.  It’s really not a difficult concept. 

It is when you know-it-all. lol

[kdr69]

15 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Try to apply current data to a year old CSO? I wonder how that would fly.  I also wonder if CDC will be replacing their lawyers. Naw. Better for the CDC to start with a clean slate with fresh data.

Well they seem to have no issues applying year old data to the year old CSO still.

[kdr69]

10 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

They can ask and any who don't volunteer proof can be treated as unvaxxed. Once out of Florida waters, cruise lines can deny anything they like.

In this day of instant conviction via social media i sincerely and highly doubt they would get away with it.  Always someone with a camera around these days.

[kdr69]

9 hours ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Of course they were, under health guidelines  from the CDC. Now this is hopefully a moot point.

Just a small minor correction they wont be health guidelines until after July 18th (hopefully) until then they were/are restrictions.

[lobster1313]

7 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Carnival is only allowing a small number of unvaccinated cruisers.  They have to wear masks, social distance, have a pre covid test and another covid test at the end of the cruise.  Vaccinated people won't have to wear masks on the ship and can go on independent tours.

 

All of this worry about unvaccinated people on Carnival causing cruising to end and the industry to be shut down is a huge waste of energy.  Things will be fine. 

This is from the approval email for my daughter's exemption for July.  Masks are only required in certain places and for situations.

 

 

[BoozinCroozin]

14 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

This is from the approval email for my daughter's exemption for July.  Masks are only required in certain places and for situations.

This answers my question whether they would actually do exemptions. Good for you on being able to go.