BEWARE of flying Southwest Airlines to the cruise ports (potential multi day delay)

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

True, but lately Southwest has been a big pile of it.  These issues are mitigated by not trying to fly with more flights than you have flight crew and not overbooking existing flights so heavily.  There is very little slack in their model.  It is a certain level of incompetence in their business leaders.  I could have flown back on Delta if I wanted to pay the last minute fare.  Southwest is just one big pile of rescheduled flights.

 

Has anybody had a multiday flight delay on Delta the past couple of months?

 

Every business has underperformers.  So far American and Southwest are on my list.

There is an exceeding small sample of flyers here. I would suggest you look at FlyerTalk to see the issues Delta flyers have reported. Believe me, you will find some Delta flyers just as angry at Delta as you are at Southwest.

 

You might want to find out what airline policy on use of planes they have. "Slack" is lost money. You will find the airlines try very hard to keep their planes committed to flights around 20 hours per day. No airline's planes just sit. Airlines with major hubs tend to have extra crews at their hubs for sick calls, timed out crews and other reasons, but one of Southwest's mottos? No hubs.

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

There is an exceeding small sample of flyers here. I would suggest you look at FlyerTalk to see the issues Delta flyers have reported. Believe me, you will find some Delta flyers just as angry at Delta as you are at Southwest.

 

You might want to find out what airline policy on use of planes they have. "Slack" is lost money. You will find the airlines try very hard to keep their planes committed to flights around 20 hours per day. No airline's planes just sit. Airlines with major hubs tend to have extra crews at their hubs for sick calls, timed out crews and other reasons, but one of Southwest's mottos? No hubs.

Well you look at the news and financials Southwest cancelled 2600 flights in June.  You look it up for Delta and they cancelled 100 flights in April.  Hardly a worthy comparison.

 

I took a look a FlyerTalk but was not interested in signing up.

[NMTraveller]

I just checked my 27 hour delayed flight to see if that was delayed.  Yes it is.

[NMTraveller]

I just got a second schedule change to one of my Southwest trips.  Two schedule/flight changes in a day.  I have lost count with Southwest.  The frequent schedule changes are crazy.  All of them add another couple of hours to the travel time.

Edited July 19, 2021 by NMTraveller

[NMTraveller]

I just got a third modified schedule from Southwest for a flight change in one day today.

Edited July 20, 2021 by NMTraveller

[travelplus]

Southwest is going downhill in their Customer Service not to say I don't consider SW because their Flight attendants and 2 free checked bags are great but overall I prefer Alaska and Delta.  For my cruise in February ,20222 I booked a First Class ticket to LAX for $208 which includes my Checked Luggage and Alaska Club Access which I use on the outbound and return especially I have a lot of time at LAX.

 

Its a matter of preference.

[travelplus]

Honestly Southwest does not interline with other airlines for IRROPS(Irregular Operations). If Alaska had a problem they could rebook me on AA or even Jetblue through their interlining if the flight is available.  Delta can rebook me on Air France or KLM if needed. 

 

Southwest is fine for nonstops or short hauls. I would never fly Southwest for a cruise on the same day or for connecting to a European flight.   To Hawaii they are fine as the plane arrives in the night before and goes to Hawaii. If I needed to be at a place by a certain time then I avoid SW.

 

Even opening a few airline credit cards to get free baggage and priority boarding for up to 5 passengers on the same itinerary is worth it! 

 

Point is there are alternatives to Southwest and I would file a DOT Complaint and use AIrHelp to get compensation for your delay if it was not weather created.   I think SW should be obligated to pay you alternate transportation on another airline. Sadly Spirit and Allegiant are in the same boat and I avoid those too.

 

FlyerTalker here on Cruise Critic can "chime in" too.

[NMTraveller]

2 hours ago, travelplus said:

Honestly Southwest does not interline with other airlines for IRROPS(Irregular Operations). If Alaska had a problem they could rebook me on AA or even Jetblue through their interlining if the flight is available.  Delta can rebook me on Air France or KLM if needed. 

 

Southwest is fine for nonstops or short hauls. I would never fly Southwest for a cruise on the same day or for connecting to a European flight.   To Hawaii they are fine as the plane arrives in the night before and goes to Hawaii. If I needed to be at a place by a certain time then I avoid SW.

 

Even opening a few airline credit cards to get free baggage and priority boarding for up to 5 passengers on the same itinerary is worth it! 

 

Point is there are alternatives to Southwest and I would file a DOT Complaint and use AIrHelp to get compensation for your delay if it was not weather created.   I think SW should be obligated to pay you alternate transportation on another airline. Sadly Spirit and Allegiant are in the same boat and I avoid those too.

 

FlyerTalker here on Cruise Critic can "chime in" too.

Thanks for the information.  I rebooked my cruise flights to Delta.  I also booked an early flight the day before.  I was pleasantly surprised that flying to LAX in first class was not all that much more.  Now I need to start accruing a bunch of Delta points using credit cards.  Delta did save my bacon on an Air Alitalia flight that was cancelled several years back.  They just rebooked me on Delta metal and it was a better experience.

 

I have been wanting to try Alaska Airlines.

Edited July 20, 2021 by NMTraveller

[travelplus]

9 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Thanks for the information.  I rebooked my cruise flights to Delta.  I also booked an early flight the day before.  I was pleasantly surprised that flying to LAX in first class was not all that much more.  Now I need to start accruing a bunch of Delta points using credit cards.  Delta did save my bacon on an Air Alitalia flight that was cancelled several years back.  They just rebooked me on Delta metal and it was a better experience.

 

I have been wanting to try Alaska Airlines.

Glad you took my advice. You will get bonus miles and Elite Qualifying miles. With the DL card you get discounted Sky Club passes . Amex plat gives primary cardholder access to DL skyclub when flying Delta,Priority Pass Select with 2 guests and AMEX Centurion Lounge for $650 a year .

[FlyerTalker]

58 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Now I need to start accruing a bunch of Delta points using credit cards.

 

Not necessarily the best place for your CC spend.  Terrible redemption rates, along with some recent no-warning devaluations, make them a lousy currency.  They aren't called "SkyPesos" for nothing.

 

One quick example.  For an upcoming trip, I could redeem 75k AA Advantage miles for a one-way business class ticket to Asia, on Cathay Pacific.  Delta was going to put me on China Eastern and charge me 250k SkyMiles for the same start and end cities.  Duh!!

 

 

[NMTraveller]

Here is an update.  In the last 48 hours I have received 4 e-mails from Southwest for 4 schedule changes.  In the last one they added one stop and over two hours in travel time which is typical of their changes.  These are for September trips.

Edited July 21, 2021 by NMTraveller

[travelplus]

On 7/21/2021 at 5:42 AM, NMTraveller said:

Here is an update.  In the last 48 hours I have received 4 e-mails from Southwest for 4 schedule changes.  In the last one they added one stop and over two hours in travel time which is typical of their changes.  These are for September trips.

Went through ABQ last week and the gate supervisor told me that more schedule changes will come but you have to be flexible.

[NMTraveller]

4 hours ago, travelplus said:

Went through ABQ last week and the gate supervisor told me that more schedule changes will come but you have to be flexible.

Well a 28 hour delay is a lot of flexibility required.

 

Anyways I had about 8 to 10 flights rescheduled for October this week and I spent over 2 hours on the AList line getting them rescheduled.  The automated rescheduling algorithm is a hot mess.  I have been put on flights that did not exist and entire legs of flights that were cancelled.  I always call the Alist line to get things cleaned up.

 

If these schedule changes add reliability to the Southwest flight schedules I am all for them.  If we still get the multiday delays I think that they are just adding insult to injury.

 

Anyways while I have rescheduled all of my going to the cruise flights to Delta and all of my lengthy vacation plans to Delta, I still have a bunch of weekend trips scheduled on Southwest.  

 

 

[NMTraveller]

20 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Well a 28 hour delay is a lot of flexibility required.

 

Anyways I had about 8 to 10 flights rescheduled for October this week and I spent over 2 hours on the AList line getting them rescheduled.  The automated rescheduling algorithm is a hot mess.  I have been put on flights that did not exist and entire legs of flights that were cancelled.  I always call the Alist line to get things cleaned up.

 

If these schedule changes add reliability to the Southwest flight schedules I am all for them.  If we still get the multiday delays I think that they are just adding insult to injury.

 

Anyways while I have rescheduled all of my going to the cruise flights to Delta and all of my lengthy vacation plans to Delta, I still have a bunch of weekend trips scheduled on Southwest.  

 

 

I forgot to add that we had a flight to Boston rescheduled so  many times that I lost track.  Anyways I hope that the flight reschedules are done for September and first of October.

[FlyerTalker]

4 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

If these schedule changes add reliability to the Southwest flight schedules I am all for them.  If we still get the multiday delays I think that they are just adding insult to injury.

 

Multi-day delays will NOT be affected by schedule changes, nor will schedule changes eliminate them.

 

Why?  Because the reason for a multi-day delay is because......drumroll please.....when a flight is cancelled, passengers can only be reaccommodated onto flights with.....available seats!  And if there are no available seats, pax have to wait for aircraft where there are available seats.

[NMTraveller]

22 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Multi-day delays will NOT be affected by schedule changes, nor will schedule changes eliminate them.

 

Why?  Because the reason for a multi-day delay is because......drumroll please.....when a flight is cancelled, passengers can only be reaccommodated onto flights with.....available seats!  And if there are no available seats, pax have to wait for aircraft where there are available seats.

I agree.  Southwest has very little flexibility in their scheduling.  They are a total train wreck.  Zero seats means multi day flight delays.  Yet one out of 10 reasons not to fly southwest.  They can pack them like sardine cans and lose the business travelers.

 

Furthermore respectable airlines with hubs usually have extra crew and planes available for cancelled flights.  Therefore no multiday delays.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by NMTraveller

[SelectSys]

My own view is that Southwest is and has been a very accommodating over the years.  My guess is that the issues are all temporary and common.  For example, one of my kids got stuck overnight in Seattle (flying Alaska) after visiting their sibling in Eugene.   The outbound flight from Eugene was late and nothing else was available to get out.  They didn't get any compensation either.  

 

My own experience with Southwest has been that they are quite flexible and their number of flights makes for quite a bit of redundancy when trying to get places - including Hobby airport right after Hurricane Harvey lifted to make one of the first cruises from Galveston after the storm.

 

I just don't think you can make any conclusions right now as all businesses struggle to rebuild from disruptions caused by COVID. 

[NMTraveller]

18 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Multi-day delays will NOT be affected by schedule changes, nor will schedule changes eliminate them.

 

Why?  Because the reason for a multi-day delay is because......drumroll please.....when a flight is cancelled, passengers can only be reaccommodated onto flights with.....available seats!  And if there are no available seats, pax have to wait for aircraft where there are available seats.

One would hope that they added extra flex capability into their schedules.  If not they will have the 2600 cancellations per month they have had  in the past.

[NMTraveller]

16 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

My own view is that Southwest is and has been a very accommodating over the years.  My guess is that the issues are all temporary and common.  For example, one of my kids got stuck overnight in Seattle (flying Alaska) after visiting their sibling in Eugene.   The outbound flight from Eugene was late and nothing else was available to get out.  They didn't get any compensation either.  

 

My own experience with Southwest has been that they are quite flexible and their number of flights makes for quite a bit of redundancy when trying to get places - including Hobby airport right after Hurricane Harvey lifted to make one of the first cruises from Galveston after the storm.

 

I just don't think you can make any conclusions right now as all businesses struggle to rebuild from disruptions caused by COVID. 

You can make the conclusions.  Southwest 2600 cancellations per month.  Delta 100 cancellations.

 

The Delta flyers complain about 2 hour delays, the Southwest fliers complain about multiday delays.

 

I have tickets on AA, Delta, and Southwest.  Southwest has been the worst by a long shot.  I do not trust Southwest to make it to a cruise port on time.

 

Southwests and Americans problems are a result of them overscheduling with not enough pilots and crew.

Edited July 25, 2021 by NMTraveller

[SelectSys]

1 minute ago, NMTraveller said:

You can make the conclusions.  Southwest 2600 cancellations per month.  Delta 100 cancellations.

My conclusion is that the current flight situation is temporary and I will continue to fly based on where I am going and will not exclude Southwest.  Same with Alaska.    Do you really think Southwest is "out for the count" and is not going to improve performance as time goes on and their system gets rebuilt?  

 

I am also wondering if the 737max is giving them issues?  This is a problem which will also be solved in my opinion.

 

 

[NMTraveller]

12 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

I am also wondering if the 737max is giving them issues?  This is a problem which will also be solved in my opinion.

 

 

No.  The 737 Max is not giving them issues.  Those have been resolved.  I will fly on one in a couple of weeks.  The issues are lack of pilots and crew.

 

However I do remember the 737 Max problems they had.  They were cancelling early morning flights with that fiasco.  I was getting calls from Southwest at 5 AM to notify me of cancellations.  Not a happy time either.

 

The current flight situation has been going on for at least a couple of months.  

 

Perhaps you are correct and it will be resolved in September?  I sure hope so.

 

However I can't trust Southwest as a reliable airline.

 

The funny thing about all of this is that Southwest is attempting to expand their footprint by flying new destinations, yet they can't provide a reliable flight experience.

 

As a flyer I don't have the time to see if Southwest is up to snuff this month.  I just want to book a reliable airline.

Edited July 25, 2021 by NMTraveller

[NMTraveller]

Well Southwest is up to October 15th in their flight reschedules.

[SelectSys]

20 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Well Southwest is up to October 15th in their flight reschedules.

Some recent news from Southwest earnings call regarding the situation:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/southwest-pledge-to-do-better-after-flight-delays-cancellations

 

Southwest operated 650 more daily round-trip flights in June than it did in March, a 25% increase, and the number of passengers and the bags they checked nearly doubled. 

 

"That is just a monumental increase and it was done in a short period of time," Southwest chief operating officer Mike Van de Ven said.

 

Meanwhile, the airline's on-time performance dropped to 62.4% in June and is currently at about 67% in July. In comparison, on-time performance in 2019 was 75.1% in June and 80.3% in July, respectively. 

 

"We need to and we will do better than that moving forward," Van de Van added.

 

In order to alleviate the operational issues, Southwest is offering its employees "premium pay" to work on scheduled days off and is looking to ramp up hiring in several of its large cities. Looking ahead, Southwest expects conditions to improve around August and September when storms "disappear" and summer travel winds down. 

 

"That will give us more recovery options than we have today,'' Van de Van said. "I think we'll be better in August than we were in July. And hopefully, here by the end of the third quarter and the fourth quarter, we'll be back to where we wanted to be.''

 

[NMTraveller]

LOL.  The ontime performance for my Southwest flights the last two months has been about 30%.

[NMTraveller]

And I have had two more flights rescheduled.  We are now through 10/22.  I am on the AList line which used to be quick, but now it has come down to a crawl.