P&O Standards dropped, probably never again.

[lindylooellalouise]

14 hours ago, jaydee6969 said:

 

I think we are the same low class as you.🤣  We came off on Sunday and had a great time.  We both dressed up for Gala night, and did not feel out of place.  Came out from seeing the 'comedian!', booked dinner on the app, wandered down to the MDR to see if there was really that many in front of us, got told yes.  We walked back to the Atrium, sat down ordered a drink and before it even came the app was telling us to go for dinner.  As we walked to the far end of the MDR, the majority we passed were dressed up.

 

We knew going into this cruise things would not be normal and service and choices would be reduced.

 

Andy would have been disappointed, no Peroni that I could find and no Corona.

 

We also found that if you could remember a cocktail you liked from the pre-covid era, the bar staff were more than happy to make it for you.

 

Would I go back and do it again, absolutely!

We came off our cruise on Sunday too and a fabulous time so we must be lowest of the low we dressed up on formal night and only saw one couple not dressed and they we’re keeping a low profile, I found the ship to be great staff very helpful food delicious entertainment very good and was sorry to leave, it’s amazing how people view things differently and life would be so boring if we were all the same, I would most definitely do it again and I am in August on the Iona👍🤗

[Windsurfboy]

I would only add two things ,

 

that the choice of ship , intinerary, and length of cruise, will have an big impact on atmosphere on ship. Only been on P&O once , Aurora  Cape Town to Southampton,  last leg of world cruise,  every thing was fine. We booked again but it was cancelled,  but again on adult only Arcadia.  I would expect a 4 day staycations cruise on a big ship to be a different type of  cruise.

 

Secondly  as I hear on local news of experience in Cornwall  , this year is different,  more partying on beaches , freedom.  So it's not a good time to make a long-term judgement about anything.

 

As for service been on 3 land based holidays since we got double jabbed  status.  Service is not quite what it was ,  but people are trying hard under difficult circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

[Son of Anarchy]

Life would be boring if we all looked the same!  (Said a middle aged, overweight, shaven headed, tattooed BOF).

[The Med]

11 minutes ago, ScratchTheRat said:

Absolutely agree with you that everyone has some sort of unconscious bias. I even teach courses on this very subject to many companies.

 

However your bias is very much conscious as you've stated class, outfit, appearance and equated them to "lowered standards". This is not a case of judging you, quite the opposite, I do not know you and thus I can not judge you, I'd need to meet you, talk with you, learn about you. 

 

The exact things you have seemingly failed to do with the other guests on board and that is YOUR prerogative. 

 

As I said in my post, I used to be "obese" and have lost 10 Stone over lockdown and I've found that people treat me completely differently. Have I changed as a person? No. I just don't happen to be fat anymore and as such, the assumptions that I am lazy, unmotivated, unhealthy and suchlike are gone and people instead treat me with a newfound respect that I am finding unusual.

 

You say you wouldn't visit a "rough pub or restaurant" as you wouldn't have anything in common with the clientele. I'm not even going to go into the definition of "a rough pub" but I will ask how you would know that you have nothing in common with a large group of people, just based on what pub they choose to drink at? 

 

I pride myself on being able to talk and get along with anyone. Through my work, I work with everyone from young kids from underprivileged black and ethnic minorities to CEO's of multi billion companies and you know what? I never assume anything about them, because I always see every encounter with someone new as a chance for me to learn something. 

 

Sure, I wouldn't invite certain people I don't get along with to my home for wine and cheese but even those people that rub me up the wrong way have something to teach me, something for me to learn from and experience. One of my favourite parts of cruising is that I get to meet people from all walks of life and admire them. Perhaps you could learn something from others too? 

 

It would be easy for me to be rude or to be dismissive of you but in all honestly, that's just not me and instead I offer you one suggestion. Open your mind and try starting a conversation with someone like me or anyone else, someone who isn't part of your "class" or "usual suspects" - you'll be surprised how fulfilling your life will become.

Well you might not be judging me but you have certainly made some unfounded observations.

 

Do I have overweight friends? Yes I do. I don’t judge them either.

Do I have friends covered in tattoos. No, I don’t like tattoos at all but I wouldn’t treat anyone differently because of them. I just don’t like to look at them so I don’t particularly want a holiday where there is a high prevalence of them.

 

I happen to be very polite and friendly with people on meeting them and can hold a conversation with people from all walks of life.

In my previous job before retirement I had to deal with everyone from rich to poor and different cultures so it’s wrong to say that I don’t meet with people from different backgrounds.

However while I mix with different people daily I wouldn’t necessarily socialise with them, I tend to socialise with the many friends that I’ve already got.

So on holiday I prefer a more up market experience. It’s just a personal choice. I know what I like and I know what type of holiday I like.

 

The lowering of standards was actually referring to the service onboard not the people.

 

I’m entitled to my opinion and I’m entitled to spend my well earned time off with people of my choosing, the same as anyone else.

Theres a reason why some people only choose Cunard or Regent Seven Seas or Seabourn or Silverseas.

I’m not alone in having a preference.

 

If people on here are happy to keep cruising with P&O with like minded people then fair enough. It’s a personal choice, it’s just not my choice.

 

I wouldn’t judge anyone for choosing it but I shouldn’t be judged for having a different opinion. 

[Son of Anarchy]

Years ago, following an incident in a shop someone made some comments about how I looked.

 

I told them to go look in a mirror.  What I didn't tell them was that their taxes paid people like me to keep them safe.

[ScratchTheRat]

2 minutes ago, The Med said:

Well you might not be judging me but you have certainly made some unfounded observations.

 

Do I have overweight friends? Yes I do. I don’t judge them either.

Do I have friends covered in tattoos. No, I don’t like tattoos at all but I wouldn’t treat anyone differently because of them. I just don’t like to look at them so I don’t particularly want a holiday where there is a high prevalence of them.

 

I happen to be very polite and friendly with people on meeting them and can hold a conversation with people from all walks of life.

In my previous job before retirement I had to deal with everyone from rich to poor and different cultures so it’s wrong to say that I don’t meet with people from different backgrounds.

However while I mix with different people daily I wouldn’t necessarily socialise with them, I tend to socialise with the many friends that I’ve already got.

So on holiday I prefer a more up market experience. It’s just a personal choice. I know what I like and I know what type of holiday I like.

 

The lowering of standards was actually referring to the service onboard not the people.

 

I’m entitled to my opinion and I’m entitled to spend my well earned time off with people of my choosing, the same as anyone else.

Theres a reason why some people only choose Cunard or Regent Seven Seas or Seabourn or Silverseas.

I’m not alone in having a preference.

 

If people on here are happy to keep cruising with P&O with like minded people then fair enough. It’s a personal choice, it’s just not my choice.

 

I wouldn’t judge anyone for choosing it but I shouldn’t be judged for having a different opinion. 

See no, that's where you're wrong.

 

You are not entitled to choose who you spend time with when you're on a cruise with hundreds or thousands of other people.

 

You choose to cruise, then you choose to be onboard with everyone else that has paid their fare on the same cruise. You have no control over who they are. If they can buy a ticket, they have the same rights as you.

 

I am not posh, snobby and certainly wouldn't call myself middle class. I had a single parent childhood on benefits, but I've sailed to platinum status, I've been across the world and I earn a very good living. I could book myself onto Azamara, Oceania, Cunard and come to one of those upmarket cruises and I could wear my jeans and trainers and still cause you concern.

 

The only way you can ensure you're only around "your people" is by staying at home.

[TheGinBoy]

I didn't realise my tattoos made me "lower class".

 

I'll slink back under the rock from which I came, sorry m'lud.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by TheGinBoy

[kalos]

Some very good advice given and we should all seek tolerance and try to be kind to others 

if we are to expect the same returned to us . What we say and do can say much about who 

we are . Look to the  positive  ,you were safe ,had some good times and when it goes wrong 

sometimes we have take it for what it was a cheap and cheerful cruise .

I bet Boycie would have had a good time he knows how to mix with the "others " 

 

 

[ScratchTheRat]

If anyone is on Britannia in 2 days time, please come say hi, I am sailing solo and wouldn't want people to be avoiding me based on clothing or anything like that. Very approachable and will chat about anything 😄

[Britboys]

3 hours ago, ScratchTheRat said:

Here's my 2 cents on this.

 

First of all, I do understand that people feel more comfortable around people like them. This is a psychological phenomenal known as "consensual validation". Being around people like us helps validate our own views on things. For example, if you're an Anti-vaxxer and "all your friends" are anti-vaxxers, you feel more confident about your views as you have backup.

 

We all live our lives in different ways. While some (my father in law) won't even do the gardening without a button up shirt and smart slacks on, some like to wear jogging bottoms to dinner. We all have our ways to feel comfortable and how we present to others and it makes sense that if we're raised to think that dinner = dressing up, then when we see those who oppose that social norm, it causes us discomfort. 

 

My personal view is that what other people wear makes zero difference to my life at all. Sure, sometimes I see what people have chosen to wear and I think "Wow, I wouldn't wear that to X occasion" but if my eyes and mind are wandering to other people's lives, I have to question whether I'm enjoying the company of those I am with! When I am at dinner, my eyes, focus and conversation is all focused on those I have chosen to take a holiday with.

 

As someone who was morbidly obese a year ago but is now probably one of the healthiest weights on here, I feel hurt on behalf of those who you looked down on for being obese. You don't know what is happening in someone's life and no matter how "classy" or well off someone is or isn't, they do not deserve to be looked down on. Our bodies are just the vessels that carry our personalities and you've already dismissed those people based on looks and dress. For all you know, that obese tattooed man could be the most interesting person you've ever had the chance to meet. He could be a Professor of architecture or a future world leader. Think of great business minds like Steve Jobs, who never wore suits, but just simple blue jeans and a turtle neck. When someone is GREAT or when someone is fulfilled in life, they do not feel the need to show everyone else, they are content to just enjoy life.

 

I do feel sorry that you felt sneered at for going dressed up, as someone who is often sneered at and made fun of for having nerdy hobbies like video games and Dungeons and Dragons, I know how it feels when others sneer, but is this not the exact same thing you're doing to the "common people" as you call them?

 

P&O are not a luxury cruise line, they are a family cruise line aimed at the British public, of which a very small number are the social elite. Add this to the fact that these cruises are low cost, allowing those who could never cruise before a chance to experience a holiday usually out of reach of their budget (which is amazing and I am so happy people get that chance!) and I fail to see what you were expecting. 

 

I wish you luck finding a cruise line that meets your elite standards and I hope you were still able to enjoy your cruise but please take some time to think on what I have said as I am sure you don't mean to be rude or offensive, but your opinions on other people are worrisome and not suitable for a 2021 audience where our culture is a mixing pot of people from all backgrounds and each of them deserve respect, compassion and a great holiday where prejudices can be left on land.

 

Thanks.

Great post. Just a couple of thoughts from me.

What other people are wearing does sort of make a difference to me. When on a ship with Formal Nights, if just about everyone adheres to the Dress Code, for me it makes a very special atmosphere/ambience and one that I really appreciate and enjoy. That enjoyment is slightly spoiled when a significant number of folks choose not to go formal. Having said that, I research my cruises/holidays so that I know what to expect and don't look down on people because of what they are wearing. I know P&O are gradually moving in a more casual direction and that now there is no requirement to dress formally if you do not wish to, which is one of the reasons I now only sail on Aurora and Arcadia. I also know that for similar reasons I am likely to be cruising on other lines more often in the future. You pays your money and you takes your choice. There is enough information out there on the websites and in brochures to make an informed choice.

Re the point that you make well about tattooed people - there is a very well-known fan of Portsmouth FC who has long hair, is covered in tattoos and wears a top hat. When he is not watching Portsmouth, he is an antiquarian book seller...

[Windsurfboy]

We all have unconscious bias, but it's best being left unconscious, not expressed certainly on social media.

 

We all are happier, in a lazy sense, with our own kind , but hopefully have pleasant surprises when we overcome our biases, but it's not easy. The more this happens the more we do it.. But sometimes , people live up to our biases. Also its not only the "middle classes" who are biased

 

I felt the Med expressed himself badly, and said things he shouldn't, but some of the responses, do not treat him with kindness, lecturing is just another form of rudeness.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Windsurfboy

[The Med]

41 minutes ago, ScratchTheRat said:

See no, that's where you're wrong.

 

You are not entitled to choose who you spend time with when you're on a cruise with hundreds or thousands of other people.

 

You choose to cruise, then you choose to be onboard with everyone else that has paid their fare on the same cruise. You have no control over who they are. If they can buy a ticket, they have the same rights as you.

 

The only way you can ensure you're only around "your people" is by staying at home.

 That’s oversimplification.

 

Surely by booking a cruise line like Silverseas as opposed to Disney you are going to get a different demographic?
 

Its true that you can’t pick and choose each and every passenger but by picking a certain cruise line (or restaurant or hotel for that matter) you get an idea of the type of people that are going to be there.

I wouldn’t expect the same type of people in a Harvester restaurant as La Manoir. 
Cruising is the same.

[The Med]

21 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

We all have unconscious bias, but it's best being left unconscious, not expressed certainly on social media.

 

We all are happier, in a lazy sense, with our own kind , but hopefully have pleasant surprises when we overcome our biases, but it's not easy. The more this happens the more we do it.. But sometimes , people live up to our biases. Also its not only the "middle classes" who are biased

 

I felt the Med expressed himself badly, and said things he shouldn't, but some of the responses, do not treat him with kindness, lecturing is just another form of rudeness.

 

 

Thank you.

I did express myself badly and I’ve obviously offended quite a few people.

 

However, it’s a discussion forum and I have the right to discuss and have a different opinion.

I do fully admit to being a snob and make no apology for that.

 

 For the record, I’m not male, I’m a female pensioner.

[SarahHben]

4 minutes ago, The Med said:

 

I wouldn’t expect the same type of people in a Harvester restaurant as La Manoir. 
 

I have a family friend whose absolute favourite restaurant is Le Manoir, but he also eats at chain restaurants like Harvesters, Beefeaters and McDonalds.

Variety is the spice of life 😊

[BillieJeanKaraokeKing]

Never heard of 'Le Manoir', but sounds far too posh for a North West lad anyway lol

[ScratchTheRat]

14 minutes ago, The Med said:

 That’s oversimplification.

 

Surely by booking a cruise line like Silverseas as opposed to Disney you are going to get a different demographic?
 

Its true that you can’t pick and choose each and every passenger but by picking a certain cruise line (or restaurant or hotel for that matter) you get an idea of the type of people that are going to be there.

I wouldn’t expect the same type of people in a Harvester restaurant as La Manoir. 
Cruising is the same.

 

To oversimplify then, if you will, perhaps the problem is that one word "expectation".

 

You're expecting one thing and getting another. I've eaten at michelin star restaurants many times, but I also have a convenient Harvester across the road here and love a cheeky nandos!

 

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, I am not trying to belittle you, rather I am trying to propose a different way of seeing things. I think the goal of a discussion/debate is to open the minds of someone you're not in agreement with.

 

Yes, I agree I would expect a different demographic on different ships, but I wouldn't let it bother me or affect my cruise. It's not like the people you're describing are sitting on your table with you. You seem upset by their very existence in your space and that's what I find off.

[ScratchTheRat]

5 minutes ago, SarahHben said:

I have a family friend whose absolute favourite restaurant is Le Manoir, but he also eats at chain restaurants like Harvesters, Beefeaters and McDonalds.

Variety is the spice of life 😊

My mother taught me a very important lesson when I was young:

 

People with true class don't need to tell anyone they have it.

[lancashire_cruisers]

Oh dear where to begin! There is a strong possibility that some of those you considered beneath you were in fact front line workers who have booked a cruise using the blue light card discount that was available - you know the very people who have put their lives at risk during this pandemic trying to save the lives of others.

 

Both my husband and I are very fortunate to have cruised a lot since our honeymoon cruise in 2002 and are both NHS staff of some years' standing. Should you be unfortunate to be ill enough to require the assistance of a ventilator in North West England then it is likely that my overweight, tattooed husband will be the one saving your life. I doubt you would then be so judgemental!

 

I find the tone of your posts to be offensive and dare I say quite 'nouveau'.

[wowzz]

14 minutes ago, The Med said:

Thank you.

I did express myself badly and I’ve obviously offended quite a few people.

 

However, it’s a discussion forum and I have the right to discuss and have a different opinion.

I do fully admit to being a snob and make no apology for that.

 

 For the record, I’m not male, I’m a female pensioner.

Some of the nastiest, rudest, bigoted people I have met on cruuses, have also been the most smartly dressed. However, I have discovered that some smartly dressed people can be quite pleasant, once you get to know them.     

[Harry Peterson]

8 minutes ago, SarahHben said:

I have a family friend whose absolute favourite restaurant is Le Manoir, but he also eats at chain restaurants like Harvesters, Beefeaters and McDonalds.

Variety is the spice of life 😊

With you there.  Absolutely love Raymond Blanc and Le Manoir - but it’s hardly an everyday place. Can’t bear Harvesters - three successive bad experiences did for that chain - but I’m a great McDonalds fan for the right occasion (usually breakfast if we’re at the coast for the day).

[wowzz]

Just now, Harry Peterson said:

With you there.  Absolutely love Raymond Blanc and Le Manoir - but it’s hardly an everyday place. Can’t bear Harvesters - three successive bad experiences did for that chain - but I’m a great McDonalds fan for the right occasion (usually breakfast if we’re at the coast for the day).

Burger King for me Harry. Their burgers are far superior to McDonald's. 

[TheGinBoy]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Burger King for me Harry. Their burgers are far superior to McDonald's. 

 

If you're lower class, maybe 😉

[BillieJeanKaraokeKing]

4 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Some of the nastiest, rudest, bigoted people I have met on cruuses, have also been the most smartly dressed. However, I have discovered that some smartly dressed people can be quite pleasant, once you get to know them.     

This is very true. I guess the thing to come out of this interesting topic is don't judge a book by its cover, there are great people to be found whatever their perceived 'class'. 

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, BillieJeanKaraokeKing said:

This is very true. I guess the thing to come out of this interesting topic is don't judge a book by its cover, there are great people to be found whatever their perceived 'class'. 

I agree. I tend to judge people primarily by their behaviour.

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, BillieJeanKaraokeKing said:

This is very true. I guess the thing to come out of this interesting topic is don't judge a book by its cover, there are great people to be found whatever their perceived 'class'. 

The OP doesn't appear to follow that dictum. Her philosophy is that appearance is everything.