Another update ruling out same type of mixed vaccines for US departures!

[MR_T]

So the CDC have sent out another update reversing the view of mixed same type of vaccines for cruises out of the US! Both celebrity & royal pages updates… 
 

 

[MR_T]

I’m guessing this will unfortunately rule out even more Canadians as this was a route taken for a lot of people here that followed our government’s  recommendations

[D C]

Do you have a link to the page that shows that?  Wondering if they reinforced the "days between doses" previously mentioned. 

[paulajj]

I was really lucky and got the same Vaccine for both or I’d be pissed. The Canadian government (followed by the provincial) were forcing people to mix. People were getting shamed if they turned up to a clinic for one brand and wouldn’t take a different one. Now this happens.
What a nightmare and not just because they can’t cruise. 

[Fouremco]

15 minutes ago, paulajj said:

I was really lucky and got the same Vaccine for both or I’d be pissed. The Canadian government (followed by the provincial) were forcing people to mix. People were getting shamed if they turned up to a clinic for one brand and wouldn’t take a different one. Now this happens.
What a nightmare and not just because they can’t cruise. 

To be fair, they were encouraging people to get a second dose of whatever was available to provide maximum protection to the highest number of people in the shortest period of time. No one was forced to take any vaccine. Governments at all levels had saving lives as their priority, not tourist travel. This is an unfortunate result, but not nearly as unfortunate as the number of cases and deaths that would have resulted otherwise. 

[paulajj]

4 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

To be fair, they were encouraging people to get a second dose of whatever was available to provide maximum protection to the highest number of people in the shortest period of time. No one was forced to take any vaccine. Governments at all levels had saving lives as their priority, not tourist travel. This is an unfortunate result, but not nearly as unfortunate as the number of cases and deaths that would have resulted otherwise. 

I agree that travel isn’t a priority. Clearly, as they kept the border pretty wide open and if you had the money/time off you could come and go as you pleased. 
 

I guess it’s how you look at it. They got a huge shipment of moderna that they wanted to use up before it expired….they took a chance that it wouldn’t cause any problems. If they were only concerned about the number of ppl in the shortest timeframe they would have kept it all in T.O and not spread it around the lightest hit areas.

 

 Just my opinion but after all this anything that comes out of Trudeau’s mouth I have to question. 

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, paulajj said:

I agree that travel isn’t a priority. Clearly, as they kept the border pretty wide open and if you had the money/time off you could come and go as you pleased. 
 

I guess it’s how you look at it. They got a huge shipment of moderna that they wanted to use up before it expired….they took a chance that it wouldn’t cause any problems. If they were only concerned about the number of ppl in the shortest timeframe they would have kept it all in T.O and not spread it around the lightest hit areas.

 

 Just my opinion but after all this anything that comes out of Trudeau’s mouth I have to question. 

The federal government had nothing to do with vaccine distribution within the provinces and territories. Whatever vaccine doses were allocated (or not) to Toronto resulted from decisions made by Ford and his minions.

[storfie]

25 minutes ago, paulajj said:

I agree that travel isn’t a priority. Clearly, as they kept the border pretty wide open and if you had the money/time off you could come and go as you pleased. 
 

I guess it’s how you look at it. They got a huge shipment of moderna that they wanted to use up before it expired….they took a chance that it wouldn’t cause any problems. If they were only concerned about the number of ppl in the shortest timeframe they would have kept it all in T.O and not spread it around the lightest hit areas.

 

 Just my opinion but after all this anything that comes out of Trudeau’s mouth I have to question. 

I must object to this post. Firstly, I believe the policy on cruise critic is to avoid inflammatory political statements.
Secondly, it is Trudeau’s government that procured vaccines and through its distribution, today across Canada, there are 81.28% of 12+ with one dose, and 67.58% of 12+ people fully vaccinated. Enough said.

 

[paulajj]

8 minutes ago, storfie said:

I must object to this post. Firstly, I believe the policy on cruise critic is to avoid inflammatory political statements.
Secondly, it is Trudeau’s government that procured vaccines and through its distribution, today across Canada, there are 81.28% of 12+ with one dose, and 67.58% of 12+ people fully vaccinated. Enough said.

 

Sorry to get political. Sometimes it’s hard to bite my tongue. 
 

And all I’ll say to your comment on Trudeau is 😂 

[paulajj]

28 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

The federal government had nothing to do with vaccine distribution within the provinces and territories. Whatever vaccine doses were allocated (or not) to Toronto resulted from decisions made by Ford and his minions.

Yep. One’s as bad as the next. 

[rodndonna]

1 hour ago, storfie said:

I must object to this post. Firstly, I believe the policy on cruise critic is to avoid inflammatory political statements.
Secondly, it is Trudeau’s government that procured vaccines and through its distribution, today across Canada, there are 81.28% of 12+ with one dose, and 67.58% of 12+ people fully vaccinated. Enough said.

 

 

Exactly. I think people are missing the fact that without the approach used (vaccine mixing) it would be very highly unlikely that we would even be in a position to consider travelling at all. 

[Minya2300]

The Centers for Disease Control (“CDC”) website (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html#Interchangeability) states that: 

 

"In situations where the same mRNA vaccine product is temporarily unavailable, it is preferable to delay the second dose (up to 6 weeks) to receive the same product than to receive a mixed series using a different product. If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine".  

Edited August 3, 2021 by Minya2300

[MR_T]

6 hours ago, D C said:

Do you have a link to the page that shows that?  Wondering if they reinforced the "days between doses" previously mentioned. 

It’s on the celebrity website on the health page under the FAQ’s, 

[cantstopingcruising]

 

Today, on the radio, I heard a doctor say that mixing vaccines was a sound medical decision and not accepting them is a bureaucratic decision.

[Miaminice]

4 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

 

Today, on the radio, I heard a doctor say that mixing vaccines was a sound medical decision and not accepting them is a bureaucratic decision.

 

Yep, in Europe many countries changed to a mixed vaccine policy after the problems with AZ occurred. Including Germany where we live. Among millions of other people DW and I both received a first dose of AstraZeneca and were able to choose if we wanted AZ or BioNtech/Pfizer as a second dose.

 

Because of the already promising data then we decided to value protection higher than any travel problems. By now the data shows that a mix of vector and mRNA vaccine is highly efficient and possibly even provides the best protection. 

 

As always it takes a while before bureaucracy (in any country) adapts to facts. Until then we´ll have to see how we deal with it. Fotunately it´s not a problem for our upcomming cruise on Apex.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Miaminice

[D C]

Hadn't cruise lines in general previously taken a stance of "you're good to go if you're considered fully vaccinated in your home country"? 

[Fouremco]

55 minutes ago, D C said:

Hadn't cruise lines in general previously taken a stance of "you're good to go if you're considered fully vaccinated in your home country"? 

Yes, that was the case, but it didn't last long. Unfortunately.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Fouremco

[CroozFanatic]

19 hours ago, D C said:

Do you have a link to the page that shows that?  Wondering if they reinforced the "days between doses" previously mentioned. 

 

Not on Edge...7/31. Attendant did look at final date on check-in to confirm two weeks since final dose.

[vermonter16]

I'm no scientist or medical person.  But, AZ compared to Moderna and Phizer are two different technologies of vaccines....and no studies have actually been done that I am aware of that show the efficacy of mixing one technology with the other technology.  It is too bad that all doses were used at once instead of saving the 2nd doses for the 2nd doses.  

[MR_T]

42 minutes ago, vermonter16 said:

I'm no scientist or medical person.  But, AZ compared to Moderna and Phizer are two different technologies of vaccines....and no studies have actually been done that I am aware of that show the efficacy of mixing one technology with the other technology.  It is too bad that all doses were used at once instead of saving the 2nd doses for the 2nd doses.  

There have been and continue to be studies done regarding the mixing of vaccines and early reports show that there is a higher efficacy vs 2 x AZ shots so the early data from Europe does indeed point towards it’s a good strategy, especially for countries that don’t have vaccines sitting on every street corner. 

[Miaminice]

1 hour ago, vermonter16 said:

I'm no scientist or medical person.  But, AZ compared to Moderna and Phizer are two different technologies of vaccines....and no studies have actually been done that I am aware of that show the efficacy of mixing one technology with the other technology.  It is too bad that all doses were used at once instead of saving the 2nd doses for the 2nd doses.  

 

Oh. on the contrary!

Since millions of people (incl. myself) in Europe received the mix of vector (AZ) and mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna) vaccines by now, there are studies. I know of recent studies in the UK (Oxford University) and Germany (Munich MTU University). All studies show a very high efficacy. Better than two doses of vector alone (AZ), at least as good as 2 doses of mRNA - and possibly even better.

The concept of two different kinds of vaccines is nothing new. It is used in other vaccinations as well to receive a better immune response / boost with the second shot.

And in many countries the reason had nothing to do with not saving the second dose at all.

AstraZeneca was widely used in many countries. When the problems of blood clots with AZ occurred,  the recommendation was to not use AstraZeneca in certain age groups any more.

When I received my second dose in Germany I was able to choose between a second dose of Astra or BioNtech/Pfizer. Because of the good study results I chose to mix.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Miaminice

[kearney]

1 hour ago, Miaminice said:

 

Oh. on the contrary!

Since millions of people (incl. myself) in Europe received the mix of vector (AZ) and mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna) vaccines by now, there are studies. I know of recent studies in the UK (Oxford University) and Germany (Munich MTU University). All studies show a very high efficacy. Better than two doses of vector alone (AZ), at least as good as 2 doses of mRNA - and possibly even better.

The concept of two different kinds of vaccines is nothing new. It is used in other vaccinations as well to receive a better immune response / boost with the second shot.

And in many countries the reason had nothing to do with not saving the second dose at all.

AstraZeneca was widely used in many countries. When the problems of blood clots with AZ occurred,  the recommendation was to not use AstraZeneca in certain age groups any more.

When I received my second dose in Germany I was able to choose between a second dose of Astra or BioNtech/Pfizer. Because of the good study results I chose to mix.

If I recall..and things may have changed..but I don't believe the FDA generally accepts data from studies done outside the US. A decade ago I worked on a vaccine project where the product had European approval but the FDA required the studies to be replicated in the US and would not accept the results our company had done previously. Now it is possible things have changed... but that might be contributing to the CDC not accepting data from overseas. To complicate theses... there is little incentive for any company to do these expensive studies with a competitive product...when they already have data on their own... it would likely have to be funded by the government or a foundation who has a broader viewpoint.

[cantstopingcruising]

It is unlikely that the US would do a study for a vaccine that they don't even use.

 

That doesn't make it any less valid.

 

Many cruisers are not from the US and they don't live by US regulations.

[dodo bird]

Here is an interesting article about mixed vaccines.  https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/07/health/lambda-coronavirus-variant-wellness-explainer/

index.html
 

… « Nathaniel Landau of the New York University Grossman School of Medicine and colleagues said their tests of blood taken from vaccinated volunteers shows that at least some of the newly emerging variants may evade the protection offered by a single dose of Johnson & Johnson's Janssen vaccine. A boost of a second dose of J&J vaccine, or even with Moderna's or Pfizer's, might help, the researchers reported. »

 

Maybe our gouvernement was not wrong in suggesting that those of us who had the Astra Zeneca as first dose, get the Moderna or Pfizer.

Edited August 8, 2021 by dodo bird

[Shadow9612]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:20 PM, paulajj said:

The Canadian government (followed by the provincial) were forcing people to mix. People were getting shamed if they turned up to a clinic for one brand and wouldn’t take a different one. 

 

On 8/3/2021 at 3:42 PM, Fouremco said:

To be fair, they were encouraging people to get a second dose of whatever was available to provide maximum protection to the highest number of people in the shortest period of time. No one was forced to take any vaccine. Governments at all levels had saving lives as their priority, not tourist travel. This is an unfortunate result, but not nearly as unfortunate as the number of cases and deaths that would have resulted otherwise. 

@Fouremco - couldn't agree more with everything you said.  Nothing was forced.

 

In fact, in the early stages of Canada's vaccine roll out, we were told by government that by September there would be enough vaccines for all Canadians to be vaccinated with their choice of vaccine.