Over two dozen carnival crew members test positive for Covid-19 on Carnival vista

[kdr69]

12 minutes ago, asalligo said:

I am just saying that people are believing in this vaccine because they want to, not because the data supports it.

The Data does support it.  People see what they want to see.  Every time i see a comment on the vaccine either for or against its usually a "sound bite" and never the full story.  Here in Alberta we have 129 people in Hospital which breaks down to 103 non ICU and 26 ICU patients.  Of the 103 non ICU patients 74.8% are unvaccinated and 15.6% are partially vaccinated.  Of the 26 ICU patients 88.5% are unvaccinated and 3.8% are partially unvaccinated. I could say that vaccinated people are still ending up in the hospital or i could say people who have received only 1 dose of a 2 dose vaccine can still end up in the hospital because they aren't fully protected until 14 days after their 2nd dose.  Either one is a "true" statement.  But the data still supports getting the vaccine.

[Brew12]

32 minutes ago, asalligo said:

The two percent of the fully vaccinated Carnival Vista crew that currently have the virus would appear to refute this point. I am just saying that people are believing in this vaccine because they want to, not because the data supports it. I understand why. You took it, so you really do not want it to turn out to be worthless. I am afraid that will be the consensus in a few years. 

I'm not sure what information you are looking at. In Alabama, despite a vaccination rate in the low 40%'s, 96% of hospitalizations and 99%+ of deaths are from unvaccinated people. If vaccines were worthless we should see 40% of hospitalizations vaccinated, not 4%. I'd call that pretty darn effective.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

12 hours ago, IloveCatsandCruises said:

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2021/08/articles/uncategorized/over-two-dozen-carnival-crew-members-infected-with-covid-19-on-carnival-vista/?fbclid=IwAR2JVxhCrjT414T3Tm2xo0NpX3NGZS4NqnM9QofsDLbKNIdwUWosaBEvjG8

If 100% of the crew is vaccinated. That means they can be carriers. That is not unusual at all. I would like to know how many of the guests are non vaccinated ? So the bottom line is. Any vaccinated persons can be carriers and pass on the covid19 to others. Especially the non vaccinated. That is why Norwegian only want 100% vaccinated guests on board. I agree. Should be the same for ALL cruise lines. If you are unvaccinated over the age of 12. No cruise for you.  Those under 12 most likely, will not be effected anyhow. Usually those under 12 do not mix much with adults on a cruise. There are those because of medical conditions cannot get the vaccinated. I feel sorry for them if they want to do a cruise. However, health safety should be the first concern to all. many have medical conditions that will not allow them to have a drivers license. Not much different. The Florida law changes over and over by judges. Simple. Just ask the guest if they would like to show there vaccination card. if not. You assume they are non vaccinated and cannot board the ship. I do not think anyone that has been vaccinated would NOT want to show the card. That can be stipulated by the cruise line and the TA when booking. You will be asked to voluntarily show your vaccination card. If you do not choose to do so. Do not book.

[EngIceDave]

I know name calling isn't allowed, but can someone say "Damn that is stupid?"

 

Asking for a friend

[BlerkOne]

53 minutes ago, asalligo said:

The two percent of the fully vaccinated Carnival Vista crew that currently have the virus would appear to refute this point. I am just saying that people are believing in this vaccine because they want to, not because the data supports it. I understand why. You took it, so you really do not want it to turn out to be worthless. I am afraid that will be the consensus in a few years. 

In your example, the vaccine that the crew received worked for 98% of them. Pretty darn good. I wonder which vaccine they got?

 

I don't believe in vaccines, I believe in science and not blowing smoke.

[TNcruising02]

2 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Yes, Mr. Walker is a notorious ambulance-chasing, anti-cruising lawyer.  That doesn't mean he's not right.  I'll assume this article and its stats are correct.  I'll quote what I found most interesting about it:

 

The 26 Carnival crew members who reportedly are infected for COVID-19 involve employees from the following departments on the ship: casino department -10 (including casino manager), restaurant and restaurant services department – 4, entertainment – 4 , guest services – 2, photo – 2, housekeeping – 1, and beverage – 1. The job positions of two crew members were not specified.

 

The infected crew members are reportedly quarantined in their cabins. We have no information regarding contact tracing of these ship employees’ close contacts.

 

I wish I knew the breakdown of employees on a typical cruise ship; perhaps some Behind the Fun veterans or true cruise ship geeks can illuminate?  My instinct tells me there are a whole bunch more housekeepers on the Vista than casino department workers, which kind of hints at where and how the outbreak started.

 

My instinct also tells me if you take 10 people out of the casino department, that's a big enough bite that gamblers will notice.  Maintenance will be slower, cashouts will be slower, fewer tables will be open...

 

The second thing is that I wonder if the crew have started to double bunk again.  At 50% occupancy you can use passenger cabins to make all the crew have their own rooms.  I'm not sure you could do that at 70%.  If they're double bunking and one of the crew is being quarantined, one of them have to go somewhere else.  

 

The third thing is that, from what I've heard from others (including past crew), cruise ship crew quarters are tight.  There's not much room for social distancing, so the employees' close contacts could include a bunch of the other employees.

 

The fourth thing is that I have a cruise on the Vista in 10 days.  This doesn't help my confidence in that voyage.  I was in the process of getting out of it before this, and I'm more convinced than ever that I made the right call for me.

Since 10 of the crew members were casino employees, maybe allowing smoking indoors is not a great idea and actually increases a person's chances of getting the virus.

[BlerkOne]

13 hours ago, arkaine23 said:

Wow.  That's more than 1% of the crew.   Makes me wonder what it takes for red status... simply on-going transmission among the crew cruise to cruise, breaking a 1.5%+ threshold in a week?

 

If the source is credible...

Over a period of time. On a turnover day. How many left the ship? How many are on the ship? Just ambulance chaser drama and sensationalism. No facts. Just hearsay.

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Since 10 of the crew members were casino employees, maybe allowing smoking indoors is not a great idea and actually increases a person's chances of getting the virus.

Maybe masks should be enforced?

[TNcruising02]

12 hours ago, arkaine23 said:

There's only like ~1500-1800 crew IIRC. 

The threshold I was reading about was actually for simulated cruises, so I don't know the percentage for actual cruises but the Vista must be right on the edge.  I looked online and found this:

Threshold for terminating a voyage

A simulated voyage must be terminated if 1.5% of COVID-19 cases are detected in passengers or 1% in crew. If a trial cruise is halted for health reasons, it must be repeated at a future date.

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, EngIceDave said:

It's not norovirus. It's aerosolized. They determined surfaces aren't the issue. They clean constantly anyway.....billions of tons of air will turn over between now and then

It almost sounds like you replied to someone else. I said I hope covid doesnt continue to spread among the crew. Quarters are tight, they might be in close contact and not every positive nailed down yet. Even they article said number of crew went up by 3. 

 

Not a clue what contact and aerosol have to do with the spread among the crew. .. seems out of left field to me. Did you quote me accidentally.. I didnt say a word about how its spread and know the rules here says do not discuss covid stats etc. So I do not get into stuff like that. 

 

Of course I'm hoping they get better and more dont come up positive among the crew, it's my next ship. My hotel is nonrefundable and my parking moved 3 times. Please please dont cancel my cruise.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

The threshold I was reading about was actually for simulated cruises, so I don't know the percentage for actual cruises but the Vista must be right on the edge.  I looked online and found this:

Threshold for terminating a voyage

A simulated voyage must be terminated if 1.5% of COVID-19 cases are detected in passengers or 1% in crew. If a trial cruise is halted for health reasons, it must be repeated at a future date.

 

The cases, if they exist, were over two voyages. Vista does Sat-Sat cruises. Saturday was turnover day. The ambulance chaser is using a misleading title and narrative.

[IntrepidFromDC]

2 hours ago, asalligo said:

Yes, why do we keep ignoring the elephant in the room. All of these crew were vaccinated and they are clearly catching and spreading it.  

But are they getting sick?  That's what we were told - the vaccination doesn't prevent contraction and contagion, but generally prevents sickness.  If only 1 of the infected crew is sick, I call that a win for the vaccination.

[IntrepidFromDC]

12 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

The threshold I was reading about was actually for simulated cruises, so I don't know the percentage for actual cruises but the Vista must be right on the edge.  I looked online and found this:

Threshold for terminating a voyage

A simulated voyage must be terminated if 1.5% of COVID-19 cases are detected in passengers or 1% in crew. If a trial cruise is halted for health reasons, it must be repeated at a future date.

But it was not a simulated voyage, right.

[Joe817]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

The cases, if they exist, were over two voyages. Vista does Sat-Sat cruises. Saturday was turnover day. The ambulance chaser is using a misleading title and narrative.

That's what it's looking like for me too. And I can't find ANY corroborating  news stories from any news source, and I've been looking. 

[TNcruising02]

5 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

But it was not a simulated voyage, right.

Right.  So I don't know what the threshold is for actual cruises.  I assume the same, but I guess not.

Edited August 11, 2021 by TNcruising02

[TNcruising02]

7 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

But are they getting sick?  That's what we were told - the vaccination doesn't prevent contraction and contagion, but generally prevents sickness.  If only 1 of the infected crew is sick, I call that a win for the vaccination.

Since deaths are down, it appears the vaccine is working for high risk people.  That is a win.  For those who aren't high risk, getting the virus appears not to be a huge deal for many.  Still, we are encouraging our extended family to get vaccinated.  The choice is theirs.

[IntrepidFromDC]

5 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Right.  So I don't know what the threshold is for actual cruises.  I assume the same, but I guess not.

I agree - "the same" would seem to make sense as they must have done research to come up with the 1% figure based on something... but if so, why hasn't the cruise ended since the numbers say more than 1% of crew are infected? 

[TNcruising02]

2 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

I agree - "the same" would seem to make sense as they must have done research to come up with the 1% figure based on something... but if so, why hasn't the cruise ended since the numbers say more than 1% of crew are infected? 

Is it because the CDC requirements are just guidelines until the appeal process for Florida is resolved?  It appears that if not for the lawsuit, the CDC would have shut down the Vista.

Edited August 11, 2021 by TNcruising02

[Gin-soaked bar-room queen]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

While the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching COVID 100%, it greatly reduces the chances.  And if you get it, your chance of dying is greatly reduced.

 

And again, if you do catch it, despite what has been reported about "viral load", it also appears that you still don't have as much of a chance to spread it, because you won't have the symptoms that encourage spreading (coughing, sneezing, whatever).

 

And lastly, it has been shown that having had COVID does not make you immune - there have been many second infections (I know of at least one at my workplace).  If you get at least one shot after having had COVID, it appears to offer the same protection as a double shot of the mRNA vaccines.

 

So, in summary, if everyone had the vaccine, the chance of catching it is vastly reduced (to the point where it theoretically could be wiped out), the chance of spreading it is vastly reduced, and the symptoms/chance of hospitalization is greatly reduced.  And with all those reductions, the development of new variants is greatly suppressed. 

 

Yes, the vaccine is a good idea for everyone.

 

 

Very well said. Nice summary!

[IntrepidFromDC]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

Is it because the CDC requirements are just guidelines until the appeal process for Florida is resolved?  It appears that if not for the lawsuit, the CDC would have shut down the Vista.

good point

[Brew12]

13 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

I agree - "the same" would seem to make sense as they must have done research to come up with the 1% figure based on something... but if so, why hasn't the cruise ended since the numbers say more than 1% of crew are infected? 

My understanding is that it works something like this.

 

If a ship has a positive case it goes to orange. If the number of positive cases exceeds 0.1% of passengers (or reports from passengers within 5 days of the end of the cruise) then it goes to yellow. The CDC starts an investigation and looks at how many people are testing positive, how many are sick, and the medical/QT capabilities of the ship being investigated. It will only go to red if the CDC believes the ship needs to return to port early or needs outside help to handle the outbreak.

[arkaine23]

Vista is out of Galveston, Tx so the on-going FL lawsuit against the CSO isn't a factor.

 

This is probably a between-2-sailings number of crew, and certainly Carnival puts some of them off the ship to quarantine, if so. Bc why risk continued spread among the crew, when required crew testing is a big chunk of the data you send to the CDC?

 

The criteria for red ship status are vague if you look them up.  We might expect them to be similar to simulated voyage thresholds or 10x yellow status thresholds because those are published numbers.  But it really seems to be a CDC investigation judgement call.  As someone mentioned earlier, losing control of it or persistence between voyages or even ultimate bad outcomes of the ship-linked cases like deaths seem to be important factors in the red status determination, moreso than just percentages of detected cases.

 

Just an opinion.

Edited August 11, 2021 by arkaine23

[arkaine23]

44 minutes ago, Brew12 said:

My understanding is that it works something like this.

 

If a ship has a positive case it goes to orange. If the number of positive cases exceeds 0.1% of passengers (or reports from passengers within 5 days of the end of the cruise) then it goes to yellow. The CDC starts an investigation and looks at how many people are testing positive, how many are sick, and the medical/QT capabilities of the ship being investigated. It will only go to red if the CDC believes the ship needs to return to port early or needs outside help to handle the outbreak.

New crew that are in their initial 2 week quarantine also trigger Orange.

Edited August 11, 2021 by arkaine23

[Joebucks]

 

2 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

While the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching COVID 100%, it greatly reduces the chances.  And if you get it, your chance of dying is greatly reduced.

 

And again, if you do catch it, despite what has been reported about "viral load", it also appears that you still don't have as much of a chance to spread it, because you won't have the symptoms that encourage spreading (coughing, sneezing, whatever).

 

And lastly, it has been shown that having had COVID does not make you immune - there have been many second infections (I know of at least one at my workplace).  If you get at least one shot after having had COVID, it appears to offer the same protection as a double shot of the mRNA vaccines.

 

So, in summary, if everyone had the vaccine, the chance of catching it is vastly reduced (to the point where it theoretically could be wiped out), the chance of spreading it is vastly reduced, and the symptoms/chance of hospitalization is greatly reduced.  And with all those reductions, the development of new variants is greatly suppressed. 

 

Yes, the vaccine is a good idea for everyone.

 

There is a huge lack of evidence that people who have previously been infected would benefit from it. The evidence also becomes increasingly shaky by the day that those who were at low risk in the first place, are actually benefitting from it. The CDC's lack of counting breakthrough cases is just an attempt to further fudge the data in favor of vaccination.

 

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

In your example, the vaccine that the crew received worked for 98% of them. Pretty darn good. I wonder which vaccine they got?

 

I don't believe in vaccines, I believe in science and not blowing smoke.

 

Typical of the blinders we consistently wear when talking about the benefits of the vaccine. Do you realize that only about 10% of Americans have tested positive for COVID since this all started? I'm not talking about this month. I'm talking about since March 2020. I know the COVID defense force is immediately looking to rebut this with variables to support their case, but really think about it. 2% within a week or so is "much better" than the 10% since we started that was the end of the world. 

[Brew12]

19 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Do you realize that only about 10% of Americans have tested positive for COVID since this all started? I'm not talking about this month. I'm talking about since March 2020.

This is where the phrase "lies, damn lies, and statistics" comes into play. Both sides can cherry pick numbers to support their beliefs. 

It is absolutely true that just under 37 million people have officially tested positive. However, if you actually believe that number, then well over 1% of people who have contracted Covid have died from it. And if we take it one step further, that means without vaccines or other protective measures we would expect almost 5 million more deaths in the US before it's over.

 

Hopefully you don't believe either of those numbers, which also means your first number may be a true statistic, but that the statistic itself is fundamentally flawed when it comes determining how many people have actually had Covid.