Babies and swimming

[sharon&family]

I think its a shame that babies in diapers do not get to swim.  I think there should be a small pool provided for the 2 and under age group.  I have been looking at bubble tours and they all say you have to be 3 to go on them.  Now my daughter can't take her infant to the beach and she can't swim with him on the ship.  I see there is a wading area near the kids slides.  Can he at least walk through the water with his hands held without actually getting into the water?  Can he sit by the water and splash his feet?  Can he be held in a pool and just get his feet wet and splash his hands or will we get in trouble?  Also, will there be a place in the camp where kids/babies can go and play with parents since camp carnival is not open?  Leaving him home with a babysitter is not an option but if we get an exeption is there anything for babies?  He will be 10 months old.  Will there be any babysitting offered?  We sail on the Mardi Gras in October.

[Sailin_Pirate]

No to all your swimming questions

 

from Carnival.com

"Children who are not toilet trained (and those in diapers or swim diapers) are not allowed in any of the water facilities on board, as per United States Public Health Services. Toilet trained children should be taken on frequent bathroom breaks."

 

 

Your daughter can play with her child in the cabin or any open areas that doesn't violate Carnival policy.

 

You'll have to call Carnival about the babysitting thing , but since the clubs for those ages are closed im going to guess no.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Sailin_Pirate

[matymil]

4 hours ago, sharon&family said:

I think its a shame that babies in diapers do not get to swim.  I think there should be a small pool provided for the 2 and under age group.  I have been looking at bubble tours and they all say you have to be 3 to go on them.  Now my daughter can't take her infant to the beach and she can't swim with him on the ship.  I see there is a wading area near the kids slides.  Can he at least walk through the water with his hands held without actually getting into the water?  Can he sit by the water and splash his feet?  Can he be held in a pool and just get his feet wet and splash his hands or will we get in trouble?  Also, will there be a place in the camp where kids/babies can go and play with parents since camp carnival is not open?  Leaving him home with a babysitter is not an option but if we get an exeption is there anything for babies?  He will be 10 months old.  Will there be any babysitting offered?  We sail on the Mardi Gras in October.

We are sailing with our toddler son in about 6 weeks, he will be almost 3 by then. We are currently potty training him, not sure if he will be fully potty trained by the cruise but we literally just took him to a water park yesterday and there was zero issues. With the current climate you may be OK if the baby was alittle older but at 10 months you may get a talking to by the staff. Im almost positive there is no babysitting services. I know there isnt for the Magic for sure. What islands are you going to? We beach break bubble tour for Amber Cove that has no age restrictions.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, sharon&family said:

I think there should be a small pool provided for the 2 and under age group

Well, to have an "infant only recreational water facility" as the USPH describes them in their Vessel Sanitation Program that all cruise ships in the US must follow, they almost need to be designed this way from the construction of the ship.  There are many design, construction, and operational differences between a pool or splash area for non-potty trained kids and an adult pool.  These design and operational differences cost money, and the majority of cruise lines have done the cost/benefit analysis and found that there isn't enough benefit to the bottom line to justify the cost to make these facilities.  And, retrofitting one to an existing ship would cost even more.

[sharon&family]

We go to cozumel, costa maya, and mahogany bay.  I did find a bubble beach tour in Cozumel he can go on but not the other two islands.  One is Mayan tours where you have to be 5 and a beach escape where you have to be 3.  Plus we have to pay for the tours whereas we originally were just going to walk around and go to any beaches right off the ship.  If we take him on the one bubble tour, will we still be allowed to go on regular tours just ourselves in the other ports?  

[DGNewton]

Ya all know they had to shut down the aft pool on the Horizon during the July 24th sailing, drain it, clean it, retreat it, all because of fecal matter.....would rather not swim with this stuff either so please curb to slide area.....

[Jamesatgsu]

Norwegian Jade (so I assume some other NCL ships as well) has a tiny kid pool. Not that you can actually sail NCL with an infant currently, but maybe in the not too distant future that will become an option. 

 

We made sure our daughter was potty trained before her first cruise, since the splash pad areas are one of the few places outside of the kids clubs that can be enjoyable for preschool children.

[chengkp75]

42 minutes ago, Jamesatgsu said:

Norwegian Jade (so I assume some other NCL ships as well) has a tiny kid pool. Not that you can actually sail NCL with an infant currently, but maybe in the not too distant future that will become an option. 

 

We made sure our daughter was potty trained before her first cruise, since the splash pad areas are one of the few places outside of the kids clubs that can be enjoyable for preschool children.

The Jade is unique in NCL ships, in that the ship was sailing exclusively in Europe, so the small pool was designated as a swim diaper water facility, for Europe only, as the EU's ShipSan program has different requirements for swim diaper facilities than the US.  In US waters, this small pool will only be for potty trained kids.

[outdoors27]

2 hours ago, DGNewton said:

Ya all know they had to shut down the aft pool on the Horizon during the July 24th sailing, drain it, clean it, retreat it, all because of fecal matter.....would rather not swim with this stuff either so please curb to slide area.....

Same thing happened on the 8/1 sailing on the Horizon. It was down for 24 hours at least. 

[tm_aw_love]

If you are looking for ships that have approval to deviate from the VSP guidance on children that are not toilet trained; it can be found on the CDC website. 

 

Based on the site, it appears that there are currently a total of 6 ships with VSP 'Variances' approved, 2 Disney ships (Magic and Wonder) with 'notapool/wet play areas', and 4 Royal Caribbean ships (Freedom, Liberty, Independence, and Allure) with ''Baby Splash Zones'.

 

https://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/VariancesByTopicResultList_VesselGroup.aspx?SID=Ni40LjEuMy4x-4ihXAsTJceI%3D

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, tm_aw_love said:

If you are looking for ships that have approval to deviate from the VSP guidance on children that are not toilet trained; it can be found on the CDC website. 

 

Based on the site, it appears that there are currently a total of 6 ships with VSP 'Variances' approved, 2 Disney ships (Magic and Wonder) with 'notapool/wet play areas', and 4 Royal Caribbean ships (Freedom, Liberty, Independence, and Allure) with ''Baby Splash Zones'.

 

https://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/VariancesByTopicResultList_VesselGroup.aspx?SID=Ni40LjEuMy4x-4ihXAsTJceI%3D

Actually, those are just ships that have variances from what the VSP requires for an "infant only recreational water facility".  The variances have been approved due to application of various measures to equal the design and operational requirements set out in the VSP.

 

The ships that have "swim diaper" splash areas are:

All 4 Disney ships:  Magic, Wonder, Dream, Fantasy

RCI Oasis class:  Oasis, Allure, Harmony, Symphony

RCI Quantum class:  Quantum, Anthem, Ovation, Spectrum

RCI Freedom class:  Freedom, Liberty, Independence

RCI Voyager class:  not sure which, but one or two

[tm_aw_love]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, those are just ships that have variances from what the VSP requires for an "infant only recreational water facility".  The variances have been approved due to application of various measures to equal the design and operational requirements set out in the VSP.

 

The ships that have "swim diaper" splash areas are:

All 4 Disney ships:  Magic, Wonder, Dream, Fantasy

RCI Oasis class:  Oasis, Allure, Harmony, Symphony

RCI Quantum class:  Quantum, Anthem, Ovation, Spectrum

RCI Freedom class:  Freedom, Liberty, Independence

RCI Voyager class:  not sure which, but one or two

I couldn't find anything on the CDC site verifying the variance for those additional ships. Only the ones listed under the link that I shared. 

 

The actual VSP manual says "Children in diapers or who are not toilet trained must be prohibited from using any RWF(recreational water facility) not specifically designed and APPROVED for use by children in diapers."

 

Do you know of another list that shows 'Approved' facilities other than the one I shared?

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, tm_aw_love said:

I couldn't find anything on the CDC site verifying the variance for those additional ships. Only the ones listed under the link that I shared. 

 

The actual VSP manual says "Children in diapers or who are not toilet trained must be prohibited from using any RWF(recreational water facility) not specifically designed and APPROVED for use by children in diapers."

 

Do you know of another list that shows 'Approved' facilities other than the one I shared?

Those other ships don't have a variance, they are approved facilities.  The Oasis had an approved design, but when the Allure came out, based on complaints from passengers that their kids were burning their feet in the baby splash area (at the time, no standing water was allowed in these facilities), Allure changed to having 2" of standing water, and this was approved.  The VSP has been updated to allow this standing water.

 

There is no list of ships with approved infant splash areas, this is from my experience.  As no date is listed for those variances, it is likely that these were the original installations that were given a variance until the requirements for infant splash areas were first made.

[crewsweeper]

Correct me if I miss remember, but I thought the Dream class Carnival ships had a small toddler pool on one of the upper decks.

[mondello]

18 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

Correct me if I miss remember, but I thought the Dream class Carnival ships had a small toddler pool on one of the upper decks.

Costa Magica is being changed to a Carnival ship and I think they had a kiddie pool if I remember correctly.

[chengkp75]

55 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

Correct me if I miss remember, but I thought the Dream class Carnival ships had a small toddler pool on one of the upper decks.

 

35 minutes ago, mondello said:

Costa Magica is being changed to a Carnival ship and I think they had a kiddie pool if I remember correctly.

Lots of ships have splash pool areas.  Unless there is specific signage that says the pool can be used by children in swim diapers, and lists all the rules pertaining to these types of facilities, and that have physical separation to another water facility (most have glass partitions to keep splashing from cross-contaminating the pools and to keep kids from jumping from one straight into the other), then the facility is not for kids in swim diapers.

 

NCL's Sky and Sun have kiddie pools that only have a waterfall feature and a couple of inches of water, but because they do not have the required additional turn over rate or the UV sterilizer, or the assigned crew member, they are not for swim diapers.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

4 hours ago, DGNewton said:

Ya all know they had to shut down the aft pool on the Horizon during the July 24th sailing, drain it, clean it, retreat it, all because of fecal matter.....would rather not swim with this stuff either so please curb to slide area.....

ool notice the P is missing. But I bet in public pools there is. If you can smell the chlorine. Do not go in it. Chlorine only has the strong order if it is killing bacteria.

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

ool notice the P is missing. But I bet in public pools there is. If you can smell the chlorine. Do not go in it. Chlorine only has the strong order if it is killing bacteria.

Actually, it is chloramines that smell, and chloramines are formed by other things than bacteria, like body oil, sunscreen, skin cells, and cosmetics.  This is why the CDC, in their VSP, require shower stalls at the pools on cruise ships, and recommend you shower before going into the pool.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

20 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, it is chloramines that smell, and chloramines are formed by other things than bacteria, like body oil, sunscreen, skin cells, and cosmetics.  This is why the CDC, in their VSP, require shower stalls at the pools on cruise ships, and recommend you shower before going into the pool.

You are correct. I just did not bother adding all of that.  The point was the smell of chlorine. If you smell it, best to stay out.

[DGNewton]

Yeah - point is leave your poop at home....

[Jamesatgsu]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:28 AM, chengkp75 said:

The Jade is unique in NCL ships, in that the ship was sailing exclusively in Europe, so the small pool was designated as a swim diaper water facility, for Europe only, as the EU's ShipSan program has different requirements for swim diaper facilities than the US.  In US waters, this small pool will only be for potty trained kids.

Given how tiny that pool is, that amazes me. Obviously no expert on government regulations and what it takes to comply, but every kid takes a bath in water deeper than those pools.

 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Jamesatgsu said:

Given how tiny that pool is, that amazes me. Obviously no expert on government regulations and what it takes to comply, but every kid takes a bath in water deeper than those pools.

 

Not sure what the water depth or size or how a kid takes a bath has to do with it.  It has to do with the design of the filtration/sanitation system.  It does not have the required UV sterilizer, and likely does not have a sufficiently robust turn over rate, and I think it is more than 2" deep.  There is also no assigned crew member there full time, and no swim diaper supplies.

[Sagittarius traveler]

My daughter been cruising when she was like 9 months she was in the splash area and I had no problem. I just had to monitor her and realized that going to bathroom before the water activities is good then I don't have to check her as much. Just get the child on a schedule or just keep checking there are restrooms near by .

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Sagittarius traveler said:

My daughter been cruising when she was like 9 months she was in the splash area and I had no problem. I just had to monitor her and realized that going to bathroom before the water activities is good then I don't have to check her as much. Just get the child on a schedule or just keep checking there are restrooms near by .

While this may not have been a problem for you, it is a violation of the USPH VSP, and can get the ship into difficulties with USPH for having these violations and not doing anything about it.

[Jamesatgsu]

14 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Not sure what the water depth or size or how a kid takes a bath has to do with it.  It has to do with the design of the filtration/sanitation system.  It does not have the required UV sterilizer, and likely does not have a sufficiently robust turn over rate, and I think it is more than 2" deep.  There is also no assigned crew member there full time, and no swim diaper supplies.

Because its a pool that in a store would be targeted to babies. I would have expected it to be deeper if limited to potty trained kids. The main group going to use it are the turtles which are 3-5. The pool is only accessible via the kids club. When the kids are in there, there are crew members. It doesn't really matter for swim diaper supplies, as you could obviously get them, or of course require them to be brought by the parents.

 

What I'm saying is a pool like that seems like a complete waste. Either make it conform to whatever government regulations are necessary, or use the space differently.