Babies and swimming

[zeroed]

The mere fact that there’s a discussion about letting a non-potty trained child in a  ship pool is why many people don’t like sailing with small children especially in these covid times.  I have kids and know just how touchy and messy they can be and can be germ carriers for every bug going around their day care or school. 
Swim diapers almost always get loaded with something and then everyone in the pool secretly marinades in it.
Take them to the beach to splash in the ocean where the fish poo too. 

[Sagittarius traveler]

How is it violating when they told me she couldn't have a swim diaper on and that it was okay but they told me just keep checking her which I did and put her on a new schedule of feeding so she wound that's accidents . They don't like the diapers or swim.diapers. 

 

They made the rules lol...take the diaper off and monitor your child .

 

 

On 8/17/2021 at 7:30 AM, chengkp75 said:

While this may not have been a problem for you, it is a violation of the USPH VSP, and can get the ship into difficulties with USPH for having these violations and not doing anything about it.

 

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, Sagittarius traveler said:

How is it violating when they told me she couldn't have a swim diaper on and that it was okay but they told me just keep checking her which I did and put her on a new schedule of feeding so she wound that's accidents . They don't like the diapers or swim.diapers. 

 

They made the rules lol...take the diaper off and monitor your child .

 

 

 

What line was this?  And, where?  But, the cruise line does not "make the rules", and them allowing the child in the water is a violation.  USPH is inspecting the ship and crew for violations, not the passengers, but if a passenger creates a violation, and the ship does nothing about it, or even doesn't know it happened, they are still in violation.

[donaldsc]

You can be sure that if I see a diaper clad child in any of the pools, I will promptly report it to the pool staff.  If they do not respond promptly, I will escalade my complaint until it is taken care of.

 

DON

[ober134]

Personally, we NEVER use a cruise ship pool. Typically non-chlorinated filtered sea water, changed daily. Imho, more like a septic tank. I've seen them shut down due to accidents. Those pools make me think of the Dookie in Caddy Shack.

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, ober134 said:

Personally, we NEVER use a cruise ship pool. Typically non-chlorinated filtered sea water, changed daily. Imho, more like a septic tank. I've seen them shut down due to accidents. Those pools make me think of the Dookie in Caddy Shack.

IF it is non-chlorinated sea water, it is not changed daily, it is changed continuously.  The only pools that can be unchlorinated are "flow through" pools, where they continuously pump sea water into the pool and the excess flows out from the perimeter gutter.  These pools must be drained, or switched over to chlorinated and recirculation mode whenever within 12 miles of land.  Even sea water pools, when in recirculation mode, must be chlorinated.

[Elaine5715]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:30 AM, chengkp75 said:

While this may not have been a problem for you, it is a violation of the USPH VSP, and can get the ship into difficulties with USPH for having these violations and not doing anything about it.

I believe children in diapers in pools are why Carnival has crew stationed by their pools now.  The crew are clearly not lifeguards and since their appearance, I have not seen diapered infants with adults in the pools.

[Tonya1965]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

IF it is non-chlorinated sea water, it is not changed daily, it is changed continuously.  The only pools that can be unchlorinated are "flow through" pools, where they continuously pump sea water into the pool and the excess flows out from the perimeter gutter.  These pools must be drained, or switched over to chlorinated and recirculation mode whenever within 12 miles of land.  Even sea water pools, when in recirculation mode, must be chlorinated.

 

Thank you for all your comments in this thread regarding the laws and how cruise line pools work - I've learned from you.  

[Elaine5715]

14 hours ago, donaldsc said:

You can be sure that if I see a diaper clad child in any of the pools, I will promptly report it to the pool staff.  If they do not respond promptly, I will escalade my complaint until it is taken care of.

 

DON

I took pictures and sent them in to the place Chief mentioned in a earlier posting.  It was after I had called Guest Services twice during a cruise ( hadn't even left Miami yet) and there was several adults in the main pool with diapered infants.  Crew did go to the pool and after a lengthy discussion, the parents left the pool.  The second time, one adult keep turned away from the crew member, shielding the child while the other parent was again asked to leave the pool.  The pool was not drained immediately.  

[Elaine5715]

3 minutes ago, Tonya1965 said:

 

Thank you for all your comments in this thread regarding the laws and how cruise line pools work - I've learned from you.  

Chief is the best.  We all learn from him

[Pyrate13]

3 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Chief is the best.  We all learn from him

Except for a few who think they know better than someone actually in the business.

[Sagittarius traveler]

Babies can go in the splash area but you have to take the diaper and swim diaper off and keep the swimsuit on incase I needed to write that lmfao

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Sagittarius traveler said:

Babies can go in the splash area but you have to take the diaper and swim diaper off and keep the swimsuit on incase I needed to write that lmfao

While you may have been told this by a crew member wishing to please you, no they can't go in the splash area if they are not toilet trained, diapers, swim diapers, or not.  Here's the site:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/docs/vsp_operations_manual_2018-508.pdf

 

"6.10 Restrictions 6.10.1 Diapers (10) Children in diapers or who are not toilet trained must be prohibited from using any RWF not specifically designed and APPROVED for use by children in diapers."

 

And, I will lmfao as you read through the 291 pages to find where it says your daughter, or anyone not toilet trained can go into a "recreational water facility" other than a specifically designated "infant only facility", of which Carnival has none, on any of their ships.

 

 

[rlindholm]

We were on an MSC cruise ship 2 years ago with my then infant niece.  I wasn't aware of any rules about infants in the pools and I don't think anything was enforced.  But then again, maybe we didn't get her in any pool or splash area.  I mean she was a baby and didn't care one way or the other.  Someone would have had to hold her and the adults weren't going to play in the splash area.  Her older two brothers just needed to be watched not followed around the splash area.  So This has been an unhelpful post except to say I didn't see signs, rules or enforcement of that rule on MSC.

 

Also, I'm kind of a germaphobe anyways and avoid pools.  I would venture to say that babies bums are cleaner than most adults bums 95% of the time.  I mean they get the wet wipe treatment many times a day... and they aren't the only ones with incontinence issues.  I'd rather be in a pool with a baby than a 40 year old who has been drinking all day and "broke the seal" hours ago.  Not judging, I'll be drinking too, but you don't have to worry about me being in the pool. 😉 Again very unhelpful post.  Sorry.  

[donaldsc]

On 8/20/2021 at 6:33 AM, Elaine5715 said:

I took pictures and sent them in to the place Chief mentioned in a earlier posting.  It was after I had called Guest Services twice during a cruise ( hadn't even left Miami yet) and there was several adults in the main pool with diapered infants.  Crew did go to the pool and after a lengthy discussion, the parents left the pool.  The second time, one adult keep turned away from the crew member, shielding the child while the other parent was again asked to leave the pool.  The pool was not drained immediately.  

 

A bit of a late reply but they should have kicked the entire family off the ship.

 

DON

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

The Disney Fantasy has a splash area (Nemo's Reef) that allows kids in swim diapers, and not potty trained. 

 

How are they able to allow this?  (Honestly curious, no snark intended) 

[mjkacmom]

Just now, PrincessArlena'sDad said:

The Disney Fantasy has a splash area (Nemo's Reef) that allows kids in swim diapers, and not potty trained. 

 

How are they able to allow this?  (Honestly curious, no snark intended) 

If you read this thread you will learn that some ships were built with the proper sanitation for non potty trained kids, and DCL ships have small splash areas for them.

[Elaine5715]

49 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

A bit of a late reply but they should have kicked the entire family off the ship.

 

DON

Yes, they should have.

[BallFour4]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:35 AM, Elaine5715 said:

Chief is the best.  We all learn from him

Seriously, a brilliant resource.

 Just once I want to hear him share his preference (if any) for digital amateur radio. That would entertain and educate at least me... K5BLU. Icom 7100 and a couple of Kenwood mobiles. DMR, WiresX, Echolink and working on D-Star.

.

Edited September 22, 2022 by BallFour4

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

If you read this thread you will learn that some ships were built with the proper sanitation for non potty trained kids, and DCL ships have small splash areas for them.

I meant how is it designed.  

[mjkacmom]

25 minutes ago, PrincessArlena'sDad said:

I meant how is it designed.  

 

26 minutes ago, PrincessArlena'sDad said:

I meant how is it designed.  

Read responses #4, 11, 13, 16 and 22.

[chengkp75]

49 minutes ago, PrincessArlena'sDad said:

I meant how is it designed.  

The "Infant Only RWF" must have it's own water system, separate from all other RWF's.  The filtration system has to have a higher "turn over rate" (the number of times the entire water volume is filtered per hour) than other RWF.  The Infant Only splash has, in addition to normal filtration, and chlorination, an Ultraviolet Sterilizer that treats all the water as it is filtered.  The Infant Only RWF can only have a standing depth of water of 2" (used to be zero inches, but the sun was heating the deck so much that the kids were burning their feet).  Most of the RWF is "fountains and sprays", not a real pool.  The RWF must have an emergency shutdown, to be activated in case of a fecal incident, which will drain all the water from the RWF.  The RWF must have signage for the use regulations of the RWF.  The RWF must have one crew member permanently assigned to only monitor the RWF.  There must be a changing area for swim diapers nearby, and the ship must provide a supply of swim diapers.

 

Of the features listed above, no land pools that have swim diapers allowed areas have anything like these measures.  This is why when the CDC studied land public pools (over which they have no jurisdiction), they found that 90% of the swim diaper areas would have been shut down immediately if they had been under the USPH VSP like cruise ships.

Edited September 22, 2022 by chengkp75

[Elaine5715]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The "Infant Only RWF" must have it's own water system, separate from all other RWF's.  The filtration system has to have a higher "turn over rate" (the number of times the entire water volume is filtered per hour) than other RWF.  The Infant Only splash has, in addition to normal filtration, and chlorination, an Ultraviolet Sterilizer that treats all the water as it is filtered.  The Infant Only RWF can only have a standing depth of water of 2" (used to be zero inches, but the sun was heating the deck so much that the kids were burning their feet).  Most of the RWF is "fountains and sprays", not a real pool.  The RWF must have an emergency shutdown, to be activated in case of a fecal incident, which will drain all the water from the RWF.  The RWF must have signage for the use regulations of the RWF.  The RWF must have one crew member permanently assigned to only monitor the RWF.  There must be a changing area for swim diapers nearby, and the ship must provide a supply of swim diapers.

 

Of the features listed above, no land pools that have swim diapers allowed areas have anything like these measures.  This is why when the CDC studied land public pools (over which they have no jurisdiction), they found that 90% of the swim diaper areas would have been shut down immediately if they had been under the USPH VSP like cruise ships.

It maybe a coincidence but after I sent in photos to the Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) from the incidents above, Carnival added the pool guards who are clearly not life guards. 

[DallasGuy75219]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

It maybe a coincidence but after I sent in photos to the Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) from the incidents above, Carnival added the pool guards who are clearly not life guards. 

I want to say there were a couple of widely publicized drownings or near-drownings, and Carnival had to save face and at least appear to try to prevent future incidents.  I imagine they didn't hire real lifeguards because doing also creates a liability for Carnival if they act negligently and fail to save someone.

 

The pool guards were probably a compromise to show they were doing something while still having a "swim at your own risk" and "watch your own kids" policy and not incurring liability for an employee lifeguard's negligence.

[Elaine5715]

8 hours ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

I want to say there were a couple of widely publicized drownings or near-drownings, and Carnival had to save face and at least appear to try to prevent future incidents.  I imagine they didn't hire real lifeguards because doing also creates a liability for Carnival if they act negligently and fail to save someone.

 

The pool guards were probably a compromise to show they were doing something while still having a "swim at your own risk" and "watch your own kids" policy and not incurring liability for an employee lifeguard's negligence.

DCL does have the real deal lifeguards