Need some Mardi Gras answers

[shibby sails]

Not much chatter from this weeks cruise. Can anyone that is on this week tell us some of the protocols. Seems like first week was a little of a free for all. Then next week got a little stricter but is anyone following the new rules. ie, wearing masks while walking around inside. Are there vaccinated areas and areas for both marked and are they being monitored. Don't want an argument about this just want to know what to expect in two weeks. Also have you heard of any positive covid cases onboard and are they even telling you if there are. Thanks

[AlabamaPoolBoy]

We went on the 7-14 Aug Mardi Gras cruise.  People wore masks in all the indoor public areas except while seated and eating in a restaurant.  The only mask signs I noticed were at the elevators and entering the Lido Buffet area.  The was ALWAYS a crew member stationed there handing out masks to anyone who had forgotten their mask.  In outdoor areas, like the pool, mask wearing was hit or miss, with many people wearing masks until they got seated and then removed them.  There was one positive covid test on our cruise.  We were not told at the time and found out about it after we left the ship.  It was one of the "utube influencer types".  You can google around and find their story and video about their covid experience.  From what I read, Carnival handled it extremely well.  Children are not vaccinated and there were very few children on our cruise.

Edited August 19, 2021 by AlabamaPoolBoy

[SNJCruisers]

9 minutes ago, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

We went on the 7-14 Aug Mardi Gras cruise.  People wore masks in all the indoor public areas except while seated and eating in a restaurant.  The only mask signs I noticed were at the elevators and entering the Lido Buffet area.  The was ALWAYS a crew member stationed there handing out masks to anyone who had forgotten their mask.  In outdoor areas, like the pool, mask wearing was hit or miss, with many people wearing masks until they got seated and then removed them.  There was one positive covid test on our cruise.  We were not told at the time and found out about it after we left the ship.  It was one of the "utube influencer types".  You can google around and find their story and video about their covid experience.  From what I read, Carnival handled it extremely well.  Children are not vaccinated and there were very few children on our cruise.

If you went on the 7/14 Mardi Gras cruise, how was it having the entire ship to yourself since the inaugural cruise was on 7/31?  If you meant to say 8/14, then you are still on board now. So which is it?

[AlabamaPoolBoy]

4 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

If you went on the 7/14 Mardi Gras cruise, how was it having the entire ship to yourself since the inaugural cruise was on 7/31?  If you meant to say 8/14, then you are still on board now. So which is it?

7-14 Aug does not = 7/14.  Get them readers out!  🙂 🙂 🙂

[hurricane0226]

4 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

If you went on the 7/14 Mardi Gras cruise, how was it having the entire ship to yourself since the inaugural cruise was on 7/31?  If you meant to say 8/14, then you are still on board now. So which is it?

they were on from Aug 7 to Aug 14th.

[ScottsSweetie]

4 hours ago, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

We went on the 7-14 Aug Mardi Gras cruise.  People wore masks in all the indoor public areas except while seated and eating in a restaurant.  The only mask signs I noticed were at the elevators and entering the Lido Buffet area.  The was ALWAYS a crew member stationed there handing out masks to anyone who had forgotten their mask.  In outdoor areas, like the pool, mask wearing was hit or miss, with many people wearing masks until they got seated and then removed them.  There was one positive covid test on our cruise.  We were not told at the time and found out about it after we left the ship.  It was one of the "utube influencer types".  You can google around and find their story and video about their covid experience.  From what I read, Carnival handled it extremely well.  Children are not vaccinated and there were very few children on our cruise.

Just FYI, when those "utube influencer types" disembarked down the crew gangway on deck 3, it has been reported that they were among about 14 other cruisers, which would indicate that there was more than one positive that week.

[AlabamaPoolBoy]

1 hour ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Just FYI, when those "utube influencer types" disembarked down the crew gangway on deck 3, it has been reported that they were among about 14 other cruisers, which would indicate that there was more than one positive that week.

Interesting.  Could you kindly post a source/link for the 14 other cruisers having covid on that cruise?  I wondered if there were more.  I did my normal due diligence google investigation and could not find ANY source for more covid case than the one I referenced.  Deck three gangway is also the crew gangway and is used for other things than normal passengers.  Maybe the 14 you mentioned were crew, medical staff, other passengers who may have been exposed but had not shown a positive test result?  I don't know but would be very interested in knowing.

 

You posted that "it had been reported", where was it reported?  Please, if you have a confirmed source for 14 additional covid cases on our cruise, a link to that info would be greatly appreciated.  Happy Sails!

Edited August 20, 2021 by AlabamaPoolBoy

[ScottsSweetie]

25 minutes ago, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

Interesting.  Could you kindly post a source/link for the 14 other cruisers having covid on that cruise?  I wondered if there were more.  I did my normal due diligence google investigation and could not find ANY source for more covid case than the one I referenced.  Deck three gangway is also the crew gangway and is used for other things than normal passengers.  Maybe the 14 you mentioned were crew, medical staff, other passengers who may have been exposed but had not shown a positive test result?  I don't know but would be very interested in knowing.

 

You posted that "it had been reported", where was it reported?  Please, if you have a confirmed source for 14 additional covid cases on our cruise, a link to that info would be greatly appreciated.  Happy Sails!

The first thing to know is that it was reported as 14 additional people at disembark - not 14 additional cases. Let me find the post here and I'll get back to you (search function still not working).

[ScottsSweetie]

31 minutes ago, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

Interesting.  Could you kindly post a source/link for the 14 other cruisers having covid on that cruise?  I wondered if there were more.  I did my normal due diligence google investigation and could not find ANY source for more covid case than the one I referenced.  Deck three gangway is also the crew gangway and is used for other things than normal passengers.  Maybe the 14 you mentioned were crew, medical staff, other passengers who may have been exposed but had not shown a positive test result?  I don't know but would be very interested in knowing.

 

You posted that "it had been reported", where was it reported?  Please, if you have a confirmed source for 14 additional covid cases on our cruise, a link to that info would be greatly appreciated.  Happy Sails!

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2795718-positive-covid-test-on-ship/page/3/

 

My post is #71 - comment after mine reports the 14 people

[AlabamaPoolBoy]

Looks like that post indicates his wife and 4 others had confirmed covid for a total of 5.  Regardless, I believe it is Carnivals responsibility to inform cruisers how many confirmed covid cases were found during all cruises.  Somehow, that info got reported on the Vista cruise.  It should be public info on all Carnival cruises.  People should have the data to evaluate their own personal covid risk before getting on a cruise ship.  Knowing the number of positive cases is a key bit of data we all need.

Edited August 20, 2021 by AlabamaPoolBoy

[ScottsSweetie]

1 hour ago, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

Looks like that post indicates his wife and 4 others had confirmed covid for a total of 5.  Regardless, I believe it is Carnivals responsibility to inform cruisers how many confirmed covid cases were found during all cruises.  Somehow, that info got reported on the Vista cruise.  It should be public info on all Carnival cruises.  People should have the data to evaluate their own personal covid risk before getting on a cruise ship.  Knowing the number of positive cases is a key bit of data we all need.

It's Carnival's responsibility to report the info to the CDC and any other regulatory agency that requires it. Otherwise, they have no obligation to give info. Numbers of positive on the ship doesn't give the entire picture - 5 cases out of 2000 or 5 cases out of 4000 is an entirely different percentage. You can think it should be public info - but unless and until Carnival thinks that then I guess you're out of luck. If one is that concerned about this then it's probably not time for one to cruise with all the unknowns.

[AlabamaPoolBoy]

3 hours ago, ScottsSweetie said:

...........they have no obligation to give info.

 

Numbers of positive on the ship doesn't give the entire picture........

 

.......until Carnival thinks that then I guess you're out of luck. If one is that concerned about this then it's probably not time for one to cruise with all the unknowns.

They have a moral obligation to report the number of covid cases to their customers who are at risk.

 

Providing the  number of covid cases on the previous cruise definitely is not the "entire picture".  But knowing that data point certainly provides a lot more of the picture than not knowing it.  I would get on a boat that had 20 covid cases on the previous cruise.  I would NOT get on one which just had 400 cases on the previous cruise.  Would you?  Are you happy with cruise lines withholding that info from their customers?

[ScottsSweetie]

1 minute ago, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

They have a moral obligation to report the number of covid cases to their customers who are at risk.

 

Providing the  number of covid cases on the previous cruise definitely is not the "entire picture".  But knowing that data point certainly provides a lot more of the picture than not knowing it.  I would get on a boat that had 20 covid cases on the previous cruise.  I would NOT get on one which just had 400 cases on the previous cruise.  Would you?  Are you happy with cruise lines withholding that info from their customers?

I am realistic in believing they are not going to do it. I have as much say so in what they announce or not as you do, as I don't believe either of us are in management.

 

If you are not happy with the current company policies that Carnival is operating under, then by all means vote with your dollars and do not book a cruise until they change to a policy more to your liking. As you can see below, I am cruising in 3 weeks. I realize that the only way I will (probably) know about any positive cases will be here on CC. If they had 400 cases on a cruise I can assure you that the CDC would shut that ship down and no one would have to make that choice.

[AlabamaPoolBoy]

We were on one of the last Carnival cruises before the shutdown and on one of the first Carnival cruises after the shut down.  I understand risk and am willing to accept some risk.  The problem is, how do I evaluate the risk if cruise lines are hiding the number of positive covid cases found on each cruise?

 

They have a moral obligation to release that info, whether its 4 or 400.

 

Informed consent has two parts.  I like the concept of informed consent, apparently you are fine with blind consent.  If cruise lines want our consent, they should inform us of their safety record.  Its the right thing to do.

Edited August 21, 2021 by AlabamaPoolBoy

[ScottsSweetie]

Carnival has been transparent in telling you that they are not going to tell you. Perhaps cruisers would LIKE to know - but Carnival has no legal (or moral, in my opinion) obligation to tell us. If these terms are not acceptable to anyone than they should not be booking cruises at this time.

 

I'm going in with my eyes wide open. 

[MPH711]

On 8/20/2021 at 10:53 AM, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

Somehow, that info got reported on the Vista cruise. 

Well, it wasn’t because Carnival released it to the public. It was because when they went to Belize, as per protocol, they had to report how many COVID cases they had to their government. Then the Belize Tourism Board released the info that they had 26 crew and 1 passenger. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by MPH711

[KmomChicago]

I was on the August 7 sailing and I don't want to know how many people had Covid. I am sure it's a risk right now and most voyages will have cases. 

[pc2425]

I just got off Mardi Gras this morning. We were on 8/14-21. I have no idea if there were any positive cases. There were no announcements at all. Masks were being pretty heavily enforced. Especially at Lido. Someone was always posted at the entrance handing out masks to anyone without one. It was announced in several venues such as Limelight and Punchliner to wear your mask. Most people were wearing masks when walking around indoors. Once seated some took them off and others continued to wear. Outdoors most people did not wear them. 

[AlabamaPoolBoy]

CDC Cruise Ship Color Status

 

Definition of a COVID-19 Case for the Purpose of Ship’s Color Status

• A positive viral test result for COVID-19 in any traveler (passenger or crew member)
• COVID-19-like illness in any traveler (passenger or crew member) with:
  • a negative or repeatedly inconclusive/invalid test result (i.e., never able to register a positive or negative result) for COVID-19 and with no other laboratory-confirmed respiratory pathogens (e.g., influenza, respiratory syncytial virus, Legionella, Streptococcal pharyngitis), or
  • an unavailable test result (e.g., traveler refuses to be tested, testing resources unavailable onboard).
• The following persons are not included when determining a ship’s color status:
  • passengers who test positive on day of embarkation who do not board the ship, or
  • newly embarking crew members who test positive during quarantine.

Green Ship Criteria

• No reports of COVID-19 or COVID-19-like illness (CLI) for 7 days, as determined by a qualified medical professional, and
• On-time (by 1200 ET) daily submission of EDC form during past 7 days.

Orange Ship Criteria

• COVID-19 or CLI has been reported in the past 7 days, and the ship is below CDC’s investigation threshold:
  • Restricted Voyages:
    • Cases reported in less than 0.10% of passengers (e.g., if 6500* passengers are on board, it would take at least 7 passenger-cases during the previous 7 days to meet CDC’s investigation threshold), and
    • No crew cases reported.
  • Simulated Voyages:
    • Cases reported in less than 1.5% of passengers, and
    • Cases reported in less than 1.0% of crew.
  • Ships with Crew Only (i.e., not yet submitted requests for simulated voyages or applications for restricted voyages, pending CDC approval, or sailing at a later date).
    • Cases reported in less than 1.0% of crew.

Yellow Ship Criteria

• Ship is at or above CDC’s investigation threshold:
  • Restricted Voyages:
    • Cases reported in 0.10% or more of passengers (e.g., if 6500* passengers on board, CDC’s investigation threshold is met if there are 7 or more cases among passengers occurring during the previous 7 days), or
      • This percentage includes passenger cases occurring within 5 days of disembarkation that CDC was notified of by state or local health departments.
    • One or more cases reported in crew.
  • Simulated Voyages:
    • Cases reported in 1.5% or more of passengers, or
    • Cases reported in 1.0% or more of crew.
  • Ships with Crew Only (i.e., not yet submitted requests for simulated voyages or applications for restricted voyages, pending CDC approval, or sailing at a later date).
    • Cases reported in 1.0% or more of crew.

• OR

• During the past 7 days, the ship failed to submit one or more daily EDC submissions on time (by 1200 ET). On a weekly basis, CDC emails all ships a reminder to submit the EDC form. In addition, CDC sends a reminder email if a ship does not submit their EDC form.

*The largest cruise ships can carry up to 6500 passengers on board.

Red Ship Criteria

• For a ship to be considered at Red status, the ship has:
  • sustained transmission of COVID-19 or CLI, or
  • potential for COVID-19 cases to overwhelm on board medical center resources.
• In addition, CDC will work closely with the cruise line and consider multiple factors before assigning a “Red” status to the ship. These factors may include, but are not limited to the following:
  • Percent of passengers and crew on board who are fully vaccinated.
  • Variants of concern are identified among cases on board.
  • Epidemiologic data from EDC reporting (e.g., symptomatic persons on board requiring medical care)
  • Epidemiologic links between cases.
  • Number of hospital beds, ventilators, oxygen, and other medical supplies on board relative to the number of cases on board.
  • Ship has not replied to CDC’s request for information within 48 hours.
  • During the past 7 days, the ship missed one or more daily submissions of the EDC form. On a weekly basis, CDC emails all ships a reminder to submit the EDC form. In addition, CDC sends a reminder email if a ship does not submit their EDC form.

Gray-designated Ships

• As of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. CDC is continuing to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships that choose to follow the CSO measures voluntarily. Ships operating out of Florida ports that choose to not follow the CSO are designated as “Gray.” This designation means that CDC has not reviewed or confirmed the cruise ship operator’s health and safety protocols.

Edited August 28, 2021 by AlabamaPoolBoy

[rs45thompson]

On 8/20/2021 at 10:53 AM, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

Looks like that post indicates his wife and 4 others had confirmed covid for a total of 5.  Regardless, I believe it is Carnivals responsibility to inform cruisers how many confirmed covid cases were found during all cruises.  Somehow, that info got reported on the Vista cruise.  It should be public info on all Carnival cruises.  People should have the data to evaluate their own personal covid risk before getting on a cruise ship.  Knowing the number of positive cases is a key bit of data we all need.

I agree totally.  I asked a similar question here on cc and the overwhelming majority didn't want to know or didn't feel like they had the right to know. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[kdr69]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:53 AM, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

Looks like that post indicates his wife and 4 others had confirmed covid for a total of 5.  Regardless, I believe it is Carnivals responsibility to inform cruisers how many confirmed covid cases were found during all cruises.  Somehow, that info got reported on the Vista cruise.  It should be public info on all Carnival cruises.  People should have the data to evaluate their own personal covid risk before getting on a cruise ship.  Knowing the number of positive cases is a key bit of data we all need.

 Maybe they could post a list outside the medical clinic identifying every health issue they dealt with each day as well just like the daily menu?😏 Could be fun reading, might catch on as a request when doing reviews now.  Instead of do you have the menu for so and so it can be I have a cruise coming up in December can you post the daily sick list for Sea days?🤣

 

 

 

[KmomChicago]

While I don't personally need to know the exact numbers, I think if you are assuming the cruises should be 100% Covid free you simply should not be sailing right now.  No one can guarantee you that.  We can see the mitigating measures the lines have in place, and you have to decide if that reduces the risk enough for you to move forward. It only is a reduction in risk, not an elimination of risk. 

 

The likelihood is someone will bring it onboard every sailing and that could lead to spread onboard so to me that was the default assumption. We were not 100% safe on board a cruise ship.

 

 

[babygrljaz]

What does it matter how many were positive on a previous cruise?  Don't the deep clean constantly? And if it is a high number/percentage the CDC would not allow the ship to sail, or am i wrong?  They are reporting it to the appropriate authority (cdc in this case), the public is not required to be informed.  Would be good to know for some but again, not required.

[jimbo5544]

On 8/20/2021 at 3:24 PM, AlabamaPoolBoy said:

They have a moral obligation to report the number of covid cases to their customers who are at risk.

 

Providing the  number of covid cases on the previous cruise definitely is not the "entire picture".  But knowing that data point certainly provides a lot more of the picture than not knowing it.  I would get on a boat that had 20 covid cases on the previous cruise.  I would NOT get on one which just had 400 cases on the previous cruise.  Would you?  Are you happy with cruise lines withholding that info from their customers?

I was on the sailing.  I am fine with the way they handled it.  I am a stockholder, I am fine with the way they handled it.  I sail Carnival all the time, do you, are you scheduled to sail?  Was there 400?  Of course i]the answer is obvious, so why ask it?  

[jimbo5544]

Just now, babygrljaz said:

What does it matter how many were positive on a previous cruise?  Don't the deep clean constantly? And if it is a high number/percentage the CDC would not allow the ship to sail, or am i wrong?  They are reporting it to the appropriate authority (cdc in this case), the public is not required to be informed.  Would be good to know for some but again, not required.

Some like to stir the pot.