Horizon has 2 confirmed legionnaires cases in July/August

[TS4IA]

Just received this notice from Carnival. As if COVID isn’t bad enough, now have to deal with legionnaires as well. Hopefully it’s an isolated incident.

[drmom423]

I was on the Horizon for the July 24th cruise - I haven't received this notice. 

[TS4IA]

1 minute ago, drmom423 said:

I was on the Horizon for the July 24th cruise - I haven't received this notice. 

Just received this notification less than 45 minutes ago. I was on the Horizon’s August 1st cruise.

[cruisequeen4ever]

Oh how scary!

[DebOinKC]

WOW! What else can go wrong 😔

[Lazz]

Could it be they did not flush out the ship's plumbing after sitting unused for so long?

[Brkintx]

Seems like this is not unexpected....  The CDC put out info before cruising resumed... 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/legionella/wmp/cruise-ship-operators/index.html

 

 

[JaniceB]

Thanks for sharing the email and the cdc link.  That was very informative. 

[DGNewton]

Wall i guess for us July 24th cruisers we aren't sick by now so be it?   Although the smell was terrible at certain parts of the hallways on deck 8 midway.

So much for transparency about illness on Carnival

Always seems after the fact.

So if you sail, be smart how  to travel.  We will mask up inside,m wash frequently.  We spray and wipe down our own room too.  Must have a balcony to flush the air a bit.

I feel for the crew that need the income.

Prayers for this industry and form of vacation - it is the best type of vacation our opinion,

Sailing Saturday on the Disney Fantasy and the Carnival Horizon Oct. 30th so we hope.

[ScottsSweetie]

7 minutes ago, DGNewton said:

Wall i guess for us July 24th cruisers we aren't sick by now so be it?   Although the smell was terrible at certain parts of the hallways on deck 8 midway.

So much for transparency about illness on Carnival

Always seems after the fact.

So if you sail, be smart how  to travel.  We will mask up inside,m wash frequently.  We spray and wipe down our own room too.  Must have a balcony to flush the air a bit.

I feel for the crew that need the income.

Prayers for this industry and form of vacation - it is the best type of vacation our opinion,

Sailing Saturday on the Disney Fantasy and the Carnival Horizon Oct. 30th so we hope.

Well, they can't notify you in advance of someone becoming ill. 😏

 

And I'm sure they weren't diagnosed with this on the ship so there would have been no way to tell anyone at that time.

[snowballs mom]

8 minutes ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Well, they can't notify you in advance of someone becoming ill. 😏

 

And I'm sure they weren't diagnosed with this on the ship so there would have been no way to tell anyone at that time.

It also doesn't help that the symptoms are similar to COVID. I remember the original outbreak - I think it took them a while to figure out how the Legionnaires got sick.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Lazz said:

Could it be they did not flush out the ship's plumbing after sitting unused for so long?

 

3 hours ago, Brkintx said:

Seems like this is not unexpected....  The CDC put out info before cruising resumed... 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/legionella/wmp/cruise-ship-operators/index.html

 

 

Ship's water systems are in constant recirculation, unlike homes, and even in a layup situation, if there are any crew onboard, the water system will be circulating water throughout the ship.  The problem areas then become the short pipe legs between the main lines that run down the passageways, and the individual cabins, as these are stagnant unless the valves are opened.  The most common culprit is the shower head, as water and air exist here when it is off, and legionella can grow there.  Then, when you turn on the shower, it aerosolizes the water and bacteria, and you inhale it.  This is why CDC requires, in their VSP, that all shower heads be taken off and sanitized twice a year.  I suspect that this sanitizing should have been done prior to restart, yet wasn't.

[Roz]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The most common culprit is the shower head, as water and air exist here when it is off, and legionella can grow there.  Then, when you turn on the shower, it aerosolizes the water and bacteria, and you inhale it.  

 

This happened to a friend's father.  He stayed for 2 wks. at a hotel in FL that's only open during peak tourist season.  He came down with Legionnaire's when he got home to PA.  County health dept. tore his house apart and that of his daughter looking for the source.  Working with officials in FL, they traced it to the shower head of the hotel room where he stayed.  

[DGNewton]

2 hours ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Well, they can't notify you in advance of someone becoming ill. 😏

 

And I'm sure they weren't diagnosed with this on the ship so there would have been no way to tell anyone at that time.

DUH

[DGNewton]

19 hours ago, ScottsSweetie said:

Well, they can't notify you in advance of someone becoming ill. 😏

 

And I'm sure they weren't diagnosed with this on the ship so there would have been no way to tell anyone at that time.

The point is they don't tell you with sick Covid cases popping....I know they are getting them and figured there would be a small pocket - those had coming on and maybe getting in port or off some.....

 

The Horizon was Green on Saturday and yellow again....

 

After the Visita blow up, CCL sending a letter means something, but to whom, (selected?)...John Heald has some convenient days off in the California aftermath...what timing...sweep in under the carpet - oh this is fun......

 

[cruisequeen4ever]

20 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Ship's water systems are in constant recirculation, unlike homes, and even in a layup situation, if there are any crew onboard, the water system will be circulating water throughout the ship.  The problem areas then become the short pipe legs between the main lines that run down the passageways, and the individual cabins, as these are stagnant unless the valves are opened.  The most common culprit is the shower head, as water and air exist here when it is off, and legionella can grow there.  Then, when you turn on the shower, it aerosolizes the water and bacteria, and you inhale it.  This is why CDC requires, in their VSP, that all shower heads be taken off and sanitized twice a year.  I suspect that this sanitizing should have been done prior to restart, yet wasn't.

Thank you for explaining that. It’s so good it didn’t happen across other ships, too! 

[blondie444]

On 8/30/2021 at 1:27 PM, drmom423 said:

I was on the Horizon for the July 24th cruise - I haven't received this notice. 

Maybe because your cruise ended more than 2 weeks ago?

[Brkintx]

2 hours ago, DGNewton said:

The point is they don't tell you with sick Covid cases popping....I know they are getting them and figured there would be a small pocket - those had coming on and maybe getting in port or off some.....

 

The Horizon was Green on Saturday and yellow again....

 

After the Visita blow up, CCL sending a letter means something, but to whom, (selected?)...John Heald has some convenient days off in the California aftermath...what timing...sweep in under the carpet - oh this is fun......

 

 

The Vista had a total of 27 cases with an onboard population of 4336. Not intending to start an argument, but it was an incredibly limited and confined case count (that was clearly well dealt with, as it did not then turn into 40, 100, 500, and 4000 cases on board...). 

For context, the case rate on board over 7 days was 0.00622*, and can be compared to Houston (right up the road) with a seven day case rate of 0.01983 (averaging 0.002834 per day)**.

Describing it as a "blow up" simply isn't accurate and bears correction whenever indicated as such. In actuality, nearly every part of the entire USA wishes that their case rate was that low over 7 days.

 

 

*source = math, simple division

**source = Houston/Harris County Covid data set, accessed on 8/31/2021

 

As to the topic of this thread, I also appreciate the explanation of the system flush / sterilization of shower devices.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Brkintx

[DGNewton]

40 minutes ago, Brkintx said:

 

The Vista had a total of 27 cases with an onboard population of 4336. Not intending to start an argument, but it was an incredibly limited and confined case count (that was clearly well dealt with, as it did not then turn into 40, 100, 500, and 4000 cases on board...). 

For context, the case rate on board over 7 days was 0.00622*, and can be compared to Houston (right up the road) with a seven day case rate of 0.01983 (averaging 0.002834 per day)**.

Describing it as a "blow up" simply isn't accurate and bears correction whenever indicated as such. In actuality, nearly every part of the entire USA wishes that their case rate was that low over 7 days.

 

 

*source = math, simple division

**source = Houston/Harris County Covid data set, accessed on 8/31/2021

 

As to the topic of this thread, I also appreciate the explanation of the system flush / sterilization of shower devices.

I agree with you....we are cruising on Disney this Sat...and back on the Horizon Oct 30th....we stay to ourselves...wash frequently...yes and we wear mask....table for two please....I think hanging in groups can be a risk...just stay smart...yes low numbers and I like that they are pre-testing....Carnival is doing thing sin the right direction, they just don't let you know what's going on behind the scenes, not to create a scene, but it would be nice to know true number to squash a lot of this like you said -0 very low - agreed!

[Sam Ting]

38 minutes ago, DGNewton said:

I agree with you....we are cruising on Disney this Sat...and back on the Horizon Oct 30th....we stay to ourselves...wash frequently...yes and we wear mask....table for two please....I think hanging in groups can be a risk...just stay smart...yes low numbers and I like that they are pre-testing....Carnival is doing thing sin the right direction, they just don't let you know what's going on behind the scenes, not to create a scene, but it would be nice to know true number to squash a lot of this like you said -0 very low - agreed!

I think you better run the water in the shower for a while and leave the room.   Also, I guess the water is not as safe as some make it out to be, claiming it’s the same as bottled water, and even go so far as saying its okay for CPAP machines. 

[DANCING GRANDMOMMY]

3 hours ago, DGNewton said:

The point is they don't tell you with sick Covid cases popping....I know they are getting them and figured there would be a small pocket - those had coming on and maybe getting in port or off some.....

 

The Horizon was Green on Saturday and yellow again....

 

After the Visita blow up, CCL sending a letter means something, but to whom, (selected?)...John Heald has some convenient days off in the California aftermath...what timing...sweep in under the carpet - oh this is fun......

 

What California aftermath?

[cruiseracer]

From the Mayo Clinic: 

 

"Most people catch Legionnaires' disease by inhaling the bacteria from water or soil. Older adults, smokers and people with weakened immune systems are particularly susceptible to Legionnaires' disease."

 

Smoking in the casino is all good, as long as 😷

 

Interesting dichotomy... 😉

[DGNewton]

1 hour ago, DANCING GRANDMOMMY said:

What California aftermath?

That's another story...not sure what to say....hoping they had 100% crew vax and waiting 15 days before cruising....the Visita is what brought tears to the eye as far as prevention, but total numbers makes me wonder.....what type of vax for cruise....pax's...repeat type of infection on what type of age / shot type....too many clouds (of unknown) to know and the Carnival non transparency of info makes many wonder....hence the post....

[TNcruising02]

I suppose they could have gotten it while on an excursion.  It seems like more people on the ship would have gotten it if it originated on the ship.  Since the symptoms are very close to some covid symptoms, some people may have gotten infected and just thought they had a mild case of covid.  It's good that it is treatable when properly diagnosed. 

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I suppose they could have gotten it while on an excursion.  It seems like more people on the ship would have gotten it if it originated on the ship.  Since the symptoms are very close to some covid symptoms, some people may have gotten infected and just thought they had a mild case of covid.  It's good that it is treatable when properly diagnosed. 

Not very likely they caught it ashore, unless they walked through a "misting arch" or near a fountain, where aerosolized water could be inhaled.  It could be as simple as how long you let the water run in the shower before getting in, as to who might get it on the ship from the showers or not.  Another place it was very common is the hot tubs, which is why many ships, if not most, have disabled the air jets on the hot tubs, as the water in the hot tub is at the perfect temperature for propagation of legionella.  If the hot tubs are not super chlorinated properly, or often enough, the piping can grow a "biofilm" layer on the inside surface, and the bacteria can "hide" under this film from the chlorine in the water.