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Are excursion buses/vans full?


paulajj
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44 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Again, it's because the T&C of the contract between the passenger and Celebrity includes the clause that Celebrity is IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SHORE EXCURSION.  

You're not getting it, yet.  This has nothing to do with the "performance of the shore excursion".  The events and conditions that I am pointing out are actions that could be taken by Celebrity before the excursion actually takes place.  So the discussion isn't about tour operation.  It's about Celebrity's response to a safety concern prior to the tour.

 

If you insist on repeating this contact language, I'll just take you back to one of my previous extreme but perhaps clearer examples:

 

Shorex personnel are made aware at the pier that a tour driver is drunk. 

 

Now, apply the language you have bolded above and your choice of responses by X to that set of circumstances.  What are X's responsibilities prior to the beginning of the excursion, once apprised of this situation?

 

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I will also say it is the responsibility of the cruiser if they see the driver is incapacitated not to get in the vehicle and to let the ship personal know about it. We always must be diligent about our own safety. 

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16 minutes ago, hertz4319 said:

I will also say it is the responsibility of the cruiser if they see the driver is incapacitated not to get in the vehicle and to let the ship personal know about it. We always must be diligent about our own safety. 

Agreed.  But since you've gone there, I'll avoid my "extreme but perhaps clearer examples" and provide yet another.  Should all notice bald tires with the steel belts showing through before they boarded?  Many probably would not notice, but when passenger would notice this, and point it out to X shoreside personnel, and refused to ride on that bus (I know I certainly would!), what should X's response be to having their passengers embark upon an unsafe journey, and should a passenger with such concerns have the cost of the excursion refunded?   And remember, it's Celebrity that has, on their web page, tied tour bus capacity to safety.

 

Yes, we are talking about situations where one or more passengers makes the safety issue clear to shorex personnel before the tour begins.  I think that was the premise back a few pages.

 

 

Edited by canderson
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53 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

For all those “soon to be passengers”, you have decided to cruise during a pandemic.   Now is the time to step back and take a different vacation if you are stressed about social distancing.    Even if you have your booster shot, if you are immune compromised cruising is not a safe vacation.    Depending on the causes for being immune compromised, only a few will get excellent safety from the booster.    A friend of mine had to discontinue her prescription for RA for several days before and after receiving a COVID vaccine to give her body time to react correctly to the vaccine.

 

So if some people are sick, your only option is to stay home and/or live in a cave?

 

Not sure how I got multiple posts.  Can Mods cleanup duplicates?  Thanks.

Edited by zitsky
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50 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

For all those “soon to be passengers”, you have decided to cruise during a pandemic.   Now is the time to step back and take a different vacation if you are stressed about social distancing.    Even if you have your booster shot, if you are immune compromised cruising is not a safe vacation.    Depending on the causes for being immune compromised, only a few will get excellent safety from the booster.    A friend of mine had to discontinue her prescription for RA for several days before and after receiving a COVID vaccine to give her body time to react correctly to the vaccine.

 

So if some people are sick, your only option is to stay home and/or live in a cave?

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50 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

For all those “soon to be passengers”, you have decided to cruise during a pandemic.   Now is the time to step back and take a different vacation if you are stressed about social distancing.    Even if you have your booster shot, if you are immune compromised cruising is not a safe vacation.    Depending on the causes for being immune compromised, only a few will get excellent safety from the booster.    A friend of mine had to discontinue her prescription for RA for several days before and after receiving a COVID vaccine to give her body time to react correctly to the vaccine.

 

So if some people are sick, your only option is to stay home and/or live in a cave?

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2 hours ago, hertz4319 said:

Arzeena,

 

Can you tell me what was last minute? We will be on the equinox next Sunday. What hopefully you can tell me is if I go to the excursion before it leaves and decide it is unsafe will shore excursions give me back my money. 

 

Thank you Stewart

Sure.

We booked for St Lucia and Domenica. Was very uncomfortable seeing packed excursions at ports before. Kept toying with idea to cancel. Went down the night before and explained we wanted to cancel because of the crowding issue on buses and cats. And we said that we were not comfortable with the fact that if some person on that crowded van/bus excursion with tests positive, then we would be contact traced and quarantined. The girl at the desk said she understood and promptly gave us a refund.

 

Edited by Arzeena
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47 minutes ago, canderson said:

You're not getting it, yet.  This has nothing to do with the "performance of the shore excursion".  The events and conditions that I am pointing out are actions that could be taken by Celebrity before the excursion actually takes place.  So the discussion isn't about tour operation.  It's about Celebrity's response to a safety concern prior to the tour.

 

If you insist on repeating this contact language, I'll just take you back to one of my previous extreme but perhaps clearer examples:

 

Shorex personnel are made aware at the pier that a tour driver is drunk. 

 

Now, apply the language you have bolded above and your choice of responses by X to that set of circumstances.  What are X's responsibilities prior to the beginning of the excursion, once apprised of this situation?

 

If the tour operator fails to send any bus at all to the port, I've no doubt that Celebrity would reimburse the passengers. If the operator sent a bus that was clearly not roadworthy, or assigned a driver who was clearly drunk and unable to drive, I again have no doubt that Celebrity would offer reimbursement. In all of these cases, the excursion simply could not take place.

 

But if the bus was lacking a few empty seats, or the driver failed to enforce the mask requirement, the excursion can still proceed, albeit not quite matching Celebrity's health and safety protocols. In such a case, the cruise line might well invoke the T&C of the contract. Shore excursion frequently fail to exactly match their descriptions, and Celebrity would start losing a lot of money if they had to reimburse every dissatisfied passenger because of such failures. Thus the T&C in the cruise contract governing shore excursions.

 

Clearly you have a different opinion, which is fine. CC would be such a boring place if everyone held the same opinion on every subject.

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3 minutes ago, Arzeena said:

Sure.

We booked for St Lucia and Domenica. Was very uncomfortable seeing packed excursions at ports before. Kept toying with idea to cancel. Went down the night before and explained we wanted to cancel because of the crowding issue on buses and cats. And we said that we were not comfortable with the fact that if some person on that crowded van/bus excursion with tests positive, then we would be contact traced and quarantined. The girl at the desk said she understood and promptly gave us a refund.

 

 

This is a reasonable approach and it got results.  I hope this works for everyone else.

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21 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

 

Clearly you have a different opinion, which is fine. CC would be such a boring place if everyone held the same opinion on every subject.

Only that the quoted cruise contract language doesn't create an exemption for negligence, where we do now seem to agree.

 

Where we evidently still differ is whether X considers a full bus to be a safety issue.  They appear to me to do so based upon their language on this subject and it's placement in their safety protocols.

Edited by canderson
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4 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Thanks for sharing. Sorry you didn’t get a satisfactory reply from the Celebrity shore excursion folks on the Equinox.

Or folks on the Edge. No they had no answers. But I have to hand it to the Equinox folks for allowing me to explain why I want to cancel and cancel short notice. For this I found them great to work with.

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2 hours ago, hertz4319 said:

Arzeena,

 

Thank you very much for the response. I appreciate it greatly. Stewart

Thanks Stewart.

Your comfort level may be different than mine, so please understand what I am relating is just my experience and not wanting anyone to change their mind on taking a ship tour or not.

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2 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

This is a reasonable approach and it got results.  I hope this works for everyone else.

I hope so.
I explained very politely and they understood.  Also I said that it was OK if they did not refund me and I understand they had to follow rules and TnC's etc. But I was not comfortable with the packed buses and cats so I was not going to show up and I felt they had to be given a heads up however short notice.

 

Edited by Arzeena
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9 minutes ago, Arzeena said:

I hope so.
I explained very politely and they understood.  Also I said that it was OK if they did not refund me and I understand they had to follow rules and TnC's etc. But I was not comfortable with the packed buses and cats so I was not going to show up and I felt they had to be given a heads up however short notice.

 

Thanks for staying and keeping us all focused on your original important questions.  Hope this all works out the best for you!  Please keep us posted.

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1 minute ago, zitsky said:

This thread makes me want to do private tours for the first time even though I suppose they are more expensive than the Celebrity tours.

I have found private tours cheaper than cruise tours but need to have a group of 6 or more we normally will arrange tours from people on our roll call ,for 6 to ten.

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Just now, George C said:

I have found private tours cheaper than cruise tours but need to have a group of 6 or more we normally will arrange tours from people on our roll call ,for 6 to ten.

 

Ok good to know thanks.

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Arzeena,

 

I totally agree with you. Everyone must make the decision which is correct for them. All you did was answered the question I asked which I appreciate. 

 

As I said earlier my husband and I will talk to shore excursions upon getting on the ship and explain our situation. If they allow us the go to the excursion and see if we are comfortable. If we are not  will they refund the money. If they say no we will cancel all excursions right there. If they say yes then we will go and see. Hopefully it will be okay. If not and then they change their minds and won't have refund the money. We will then cancel all remaining excursions and we review our options about sailing with them again.

 

I know there are a lot of if' s in what I wrote but that is the world we are living in today.

 

Thanks again for your input. Very much appreciated. Stewart

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5 minutes ago, zitsky said:

Has anyone else considered private excursions as a solution?  Or is it too much trouble to get a group together?

Usually on a roll call you can try to get a group together 

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1 hour ago, LGW59 said:

Usually on a roll call you can try to get a group together 

It is easy with roll call , we had great luck in Caribbean and Europe our excursion were much nicer and cheaper than any ships. Use TripAdvisor to see different excursion offered .

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Private tours are not allowed at many ports currently (they would be considered "on your own"), so that's not a solution for this concern for every trip.

 

I don't think sitting at the back of the bus would keep anyone out of quarantine.  Not to mention that only so many people can sit in the last row. 

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We were on Equinox in August and experienced the crowded small excursion vans...there was no reduced capacity or social distancing, whatsoever.  Masking was largely followed but not entirely.  After two such situations, we cancelled the excursions we'd scheduled for subsequent ports, replacing one with an open air "safari style" truck which we thought might be safer, another with a coastal catamaran sail on which we were able to get seats by ourselves, and independently walking around the final port.   We didn't register a complaint with the Excursion Desk because, based on the lack of masking and the apparent lack of concern for social distancing onboard the ship, we simply assumed we were the "outliers" and that others were comfortable with the excursion conditions.  However, since my spouse has a health condition that requires us to be somewhat more cautious than the average person, if we want to cruise, we need to be prudent.  This thread suggests we may not have been alone in our concerns about the conditions aboard the excursion vehicles.

Edited by Bluewake
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