On Reflection Now - Masks are Required Indoors

[papaflamingo]

44 minutes ago, dkny330 said:

Just got off the Reflection and I think I remember hearing about 15+ passenger cases or so announced from a total of 1700 people on board; that's what we know though and I'm sure there were many more and does not include crew which we know there were many who either were positive or quarantined.

 

Our cruise director changed in the middle of the cruise, servers and hosts suddenly were not around, entertainers and DJ's were flown in at different ports to replace those who could not be with the masses. There was no production show as the dancers and entertainers were all isolated or quarantined from the week before. We have to remember that wearing a mask is not only about us, but those around us too. 

 

With all that said, it was a great cruise. As someone who got lax by Day 3 about wearing a mask inside on the ship, I wish Celebrity had this "mandate" during our week as we could have protected, not only ourselves, but the crew and all those that work 24/7 to make sure we have a good time. By Day 6 and after the CDC announcement and not seeing crew members we were used to seeing, we got back to wearing our masks inside. It's not something I "prefer" or like, but we still got our drinks, food, most ports. ridiculously beautiful weather and more. It's a small price to pay and did not impact the experience; it was just different. Can't wait to go back end of March and if we have to wear a mask inside, we will.   

We were on this cruise too.  I actually hadn't heard the number of cases as I tended to miss the announcements. I didn't notice much difference other than the last couple of days our waiter, who would pull his mask down (at our request) to tell us about certain dishes, stopped doing that.  I didn't notice much change in service as we were in Luminae, other than it seemed slower the last couple days.  

We didn't get off the ship other than a couple hours in St. Thomas.  We had a wonderful cruise and the crew worked tirelessly with great attitudes to ensure we did.  I can honestly say it may have been the best service we've received in some 36 cruises.  I think the crew is grateful to be working again.  We were very sure to highly reward all our servers.  I hope people keep cruising even with the added mask policy.  

[nocl]

14 hours ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

We'll be on the Reflection 2/26. Hopefully by then we'll be well past the peak of this steep spike.

 

We've sailed three times since restart - and had varying requirements of masks and (widely varying adherence by the masses).

 

Yep - masks, at this point especially with Omicron, are more of a "feel good" sign that the cruise line is "doing all they can". Lots of things are for show. On our Christmas Royal Caribbean sailing, I was more than amused in the casino... playing blackjack, every time that they'd change dealers they'd go through this process: They would place the cover on the chips, and wipe the cover down. They would do a quick wipe of the CSM, and then back to business.  I was like... WOW... what's the point? You're about to hand chips back and forth numerous times. Why aren't we "disinfecting" the chips each time? Like I said, most of these things are for show.

 

Tom

Well so far the worst outbreaks seem to have been on lines that started December with no mask policies. More so on not 100% vaxxed. lines. While there have been cases on 100% varied and lines requiring masks indoors  far fewer reports and the numbers seem lower.

 

Will make for an interesting analysis in a few months when the numbers are looked at. Should yield interesting data on effectiveness of various policies.

Edited January 3, 2022 by nocl

[nocl]

14 hours ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

FWIW - Cheryl and I are ardent mask wearers, vaccinated in January of '20, infected in July, boosted in October. Especially with the current variant - we might as well be wearing a bandana. I understand, and agree with, the mask mandate. Some of the other things are less effective, and more for show.

 

At the gym I go to - I am, almost without exception, the only one wearing a mask. They have signage to wipe things down before and after use, but nothing about masks. Even during the brief period when they "recommended" them (this, after all, is Florida), only a small percentage paid any attention to that.... oh well...

 

Tom

data shows that masks use can reduce R0 by 25 to 50% based upon several studies. Will not protect everyone but will reduce numbers.

[Smmessineo]

13 hours ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

I'm on Edge too. Didn't see this thread earlier. When were you informed about this? Because I'm doing a B2B and never received a word or letter until like an hour ago.

 

This is already driving me nuts. Had I known about this at boarding I'd simply have gone home.

We were given a letter as we waited on line to board. I saw your other thread, what happened to you was inexcusable. 

[canderson]

45 minutes ago, nocl said:

data shows that masks use can reduce R0 by 25 to 50% based upon several studies. Will not protect everyone but will reduce numbers.

Trouble with omicron is that its R0 appears to be very high to begin with.  Agree that it would be very nice to be able to compare policies vs. infections, but perhaps apart from the slim chance of success of a bloody FOIA request to the CDC, there won't be by-ship or even by-line numbers made available for public scrutiny with which to make comparisons.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by canderson
Spelchek

[TeeRick]

2 minutes ago, canderson said:

Trouble with omicron is that its R0 appears to be very high to begin with.  Agree that it would be very nice to be able to compare policies vs. infections, but perhaps apart from the slim chance of success of a bloody FOIA request to the CDC, there won't be by-ship or even by-line numbers made available for public scrutiny with which to make comparisons.

 

 

For those about to travel and cruise, recent reports have emphasized that N95 or KN95 type masks can make some difference with Omicron, and next best are medical grade surgical masks.  Cloth masks seem to be pretty ineffective.    So you might consider which masks to buy and bring along with you if the Celebrity ships start requiring masks.  Or even if they don't.  Happy cruising!

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/health/cloth-mask-omicron-variant-wellness/index.html

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, Host Anne said:

 

There was no announcement.  We were handed a sheet of paper with the information.  I bet some didn't even bother to read it.  I think we would have definitely had a few in our group cancel had we been told.  We'll make the best of it.  

Hi Anne.  Have a safe cruise!  Hopefully you and your group will avoid the isolation deck!  

[Fly and Sail]

1 hour ago, Smmessineo said:

We were given a letter as we waited on line to board. I saw your other thread, what happened to you was inexcusable. 

 

Good to know that at least some people had a choice and that's totally fair game. I'll take this up with guest relations, thanks for the heads up.

[canderson]

27 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

For those about to travel and cruise, recent reports have emphasized that N95 or KN95 type masks can make some difference with Omicron, and next best are medical grade surgical masks.  Cloth masks seem to be pretty ineffective.  

Yes.  Mayo no longer allows patients/visitors to use cloth masks in their facilities -- too ineffective, they say.

 

But back to the comparison of policies/results.  How are we to make informed choices when the CDC and CLIA have this wall of silence going with regard to numbers?  How to understand whether the policies of Celebrity seems to be making more of an impact than that of any other line?  And the data would necessarily have to include a timeline since policies have been changing (e.g. the current re-mask situation with Celebrity).

[nocl]

46 minutes ago, canderson said:

Trouble with omicron is that its R0 appears to be very high to begin with.  Agree that it would be very nice to be able to compare policies vs. infections, but perhaps apart from the slim chance of success of a bloody FOIA request to the CDC, there won't be by-ship or even by-line numbers made available for public scrutiny with which to make comparisons.

 

 

The analysis will be an after the fact  comparison.  Will generate good info, but we'll after this wave peaks.

[nocl]

38 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

For those about to travel and cruise, recent reports have emphasized that N95 or KN95 type masks can make some difference with Omicron, and next best are medical grade surgical masks.  Cloth masks seem to be pretty ineffective.    So you might consider which masks to buy and bring along with you if the Celebrity ships start requiring masks.  Or even if they don't.  Happy cruising!

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/health/cloth-mask-omicron-variant-wellness/index.html

Certainly to be effective needs to be surgical grade at least, n95 and kn95 recommended. Also needs to be worn tight to face. if loose enough to slip down it is too loose to provide value.

[Smmessineo]

20 minutes ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

Good to know that at least some people had a choice and that's totally fair game. I'll take this up with guest relations, thanks for the heads up.

Best of luck! Also, small world...it was my husband who asked you about it in the elevator

[Fly and Sail]

Just now, Smmessineo said:

Best of luck! Also, small world...it was my husband who asked you about it in the elevator

 

Haha awesome. I was really surprised as you might have noticed by my reaction. My next stop was the Captains Club desk to get clarification about this. Sure enough, you were right.

[canderson]

9 minutes ago, nocl said:

The analysis will be an after the fact  comparison.  Will generate good info, but we'll after this wave peaks.

Yes, after the fact, but do you really think the underlying data will ever see the light of day such that an independent analysis is possible?  Living in a county that refuses to publish separate "death with" and "death from" statistics when they have them, especially during omicron, I've become a bit jaded in my outlook on 'published results'.

[Jeremiah1212]

18 minutes ago, canderson said:

Yes.  Mayo no longer allows patients/visitors to use cloth masks in their facilities -- too ineffective, they say.

 

But back to the comparison of policies/results.  How are we to make informed choices when the CDC and CLIA have this wall of silence going with regard to numbers?  How to understand whether the policies of Celebrity seems to be making more of an impact than that of any other line?  And the data would necessarily have to include a timeline since policies have been changing (e.g. the current re-mask situation with Celebrity).

 

I think we will start seeing more specifics leak from the CDC. On the 29th they released the 31x increase in cases from the last 2 weeks of December compared to the first two weeks. While it's nice to see the Michael Bayley's and Richard Fain's of the industry being a little more transparent in the past week,  it's hard to be very objective when the word is coming from someone who has  millions ($) of reasons to downplay the situation.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

21 minutes ago, nocl said:

Certainly to be effective needs to be surgical grade at least, n95 and kn95 recommended. Also needs to be worn tight to face. if loose enough to slip down it is too loose to provide value.

... And we'll NEVER get everyone on board with that

[cantstopingcruising]

20 minutes ago, nocl said:

Certainly to be effective needs to be surgical grade at least, n95 and kn95 recommended. Also needs to be worn tight to face. if loose enough to slip down it is too loose to provide value.

I wear a cloth mask over the surgical mask to help keep it in place. And it has a Chanel Logo in rhinestones, so is fun!

[canderson]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

I think we will start seeing more specifics leak from the CDC.

Do you believe those specifics will be specific enough make it possible for pax to make an informed decision regarding line policies vs. personal risk tolerance?  I'm doubtful.  They've certainly kept it carefully under wraps so far.

[Jeremiah1212]

2 minutes ago, canderson said:

Do you believe those specifics will be specific enough make it possible for pax to make an informed decision regarding line policies vs. personal risk tolerance?  I'm doubtful.  They've certainly kept it carefully under wraps so far.

 

I'm sure there is a back room agreement to keep specific numbers hush hush. But hopefully general numbers will provide some clarity to speak to all of the counter arguments that are riddled with fallacy. Like the 'uptick' in cases they were seeing. That 31x 'uptick'. 

[Fly and Sail]

FWIW Celebrity has still not updated their Healthy at Seat guidelines on the website.

[highway180]

18 hours ago, Host Anne said:

I'm on Reflection right now as well.  I'm not surprised by the new mask mandate but I am disappointed that we were not alerted before entering the cruise terminal.  This decision was obviously made before we arrived.  We received five or six alerts this morning before getting to the pier about making sure we watched the safety video and check in at our muster drill.  I know many aren't bothered by wearing masks at all....but others are. A notification before getting inside the terminal should have been sent as we are traveling with people who may have decided to stay home.

 

They've also changed a port of call (expected these to happen).  Dropped St. Croix and added Nassau. Ports aren't nearly as important as they once were to us so we're not bothered by this change or other changes that may likely pop up this week. 

 

But I think the bottom line for many is they aren't going to deliver the cruise experience people paid for.   We'll see how it goes and then I'll compare since I've sailed Summit and Equinox since August.  

 

I was told by the maitre 'd in Murano that they expected to sail with approximately 1,000 passengers this week and las week they had about 1,600.

Actually there were over 1760 or so on board, and the Captain kept us informed daily as to infections and persons in quarantine. We were told less than 1%. Proof of that is the number of vehicles, about 6 SUVs that were parked on the dock waiting to transfer infected persons off the ship...waiting until after the ship had emptied of passengers.

 

we had a SUPER cruise and will do it again in a heart beat.

Less than 1% on a fully vaccinated, tested ship, with a very high rate of children on board is not a bad record considering most did not wear masks.....especially the New Years Eve party which was fun.

 

hope you have an amazing cruise as well

[highway180]

13 hours ago, PTCruizer said:

Just off the Reflection. Captain only mentioned a total of 5 positive cases during the cruise. Not sure how there would have been greater than 1% and we would not have been told. Please share a scan of the letter you received. 

i agree

we were on board as well

Had a great cruise i may add!

[LGW59]

30 minutes ago, canderson said:

Do you believe those specifics will be specific enough make it possible for pax to make an informed decision regarding line policies vs. personal risk tolerance?  I'm doubtful.  They've certainly kept it carefully under wraps so far.

I feel that based on the numbers of COVID positive on land, the cruise lines are not being as forthcoming with their information.  I am NOT suggesting shutting them down, I am suggesting the should be more forthcoming so folks can make the most informed decision possible for their personal circumstances.  

[highway180]

3 hours ago, dkny330 said:

Just got off the Reflection and I think I remember hearing about 15+ passenger cases or so announced from a total of 1700 people on board; that's what we know though and I'm sure there were many more and does not include crew which we know there were many who either were positive or quarantined.

 

Our cruise director changed in the middle of the cruise, servers and hosts suddenly were not around, entertainers and DJ's were flown in at different ports to replace those who could not be with the masses. There was no production show as the dancers and entertainers were all isolated or quarantined from the week before. We have to remember that wearing a mask is not only about us, but those around us too. 

 

With all that said, it was a great cruise. As someone who got lax by Day 3 about wearing a mask inside on the ship, I wish Celebrity had this "mandate" during our week as we could have protected, not only ourselves, but the crew and all those that work 24/7 to make sure we have a good time. By Day 6 and after the CDC announcement and not seeing crew members we were used to seeing, we got back to wearing our masks inside. It's not something I "prefer" or like, but we still got our drinks, food, most ports. ridiculously beautiful weather and more. It's a small price to pay and did not impact the experience; it was just different. Can't wait to go back end of March and if we have to wear a mask inside, we will.   

I beg to disagree,

We never saw any disruption on staff or servers. We were in AQ and the staff in Blu exceeded expectations. Cruise director was still onboard making announcements, and actually didn't see any new entertainers join us.

What venue did your servers disappear?

we saw the same ones throughout.

I guess i was having to much fun to notice.

Glad you had a good cruise

 

Any super spreader event would have been the New Years party on the pool deck

we did enjoy it regardless

[Lastdance]

 I would double mask with a 3 ply: that works the best for me, especially as I return to school with Omicron.  Hope we all reach herd immunity soon.  Stay safe and hope everyone has a great cruise.  Prepare for the worse and be cautious. 

 

Do what makes you comfortable, but understand that you could end up in quarantine!

Edited January 3, 2022 by Lastdance